Chris, Nancy, & Daniel Benoit found dead

[Guest KCook]

Anyone know exactly what the 59:1 ratio was? Bryan Alvarez is sure it's T/E but other people think they heard it differently.

It was Johnnie Morton—he had a 59:1 ratio, which was as amazing as Kevin Randleman's test indicating that he was dead.

[Loss]

That press release is just awful.

 

I'm not surprised by it or anything, but what a heartless, stubborn press release to put out within two hours of a press conference.

[Cox]

It's like they're begging for an outside source to challenge them on their drug test results, or begging for an independent investigation of their drug testing policy.

[Guest teke184]

It's like they're begging for an outside source to challenge them on their drug test results, or begging for an independent investigation of their drug testing policy.

Vinnie Mac appears to be playing the "no one really wants to investigate wrestling" Jedi Mind Trick game.

 

 

That's going to bite him in the ass when people say "Yeah, we do" and then look at the books.

[Tim Evans]

Oh Vince that wasn't very smart to say.

 

I don't think congress will do anything now but one day, they will.

[Loss]

http://www.stormwrestling.com/071607.html

 

Enough Already

July 16, 2007

 

I am reaching a level of frustration that I doubt I have ever reached before in my life. The stress and frustration created by the Benoit tragedy and the resulting media coverage has reached dangerous proportions for me and I feel I need to vent now in an attempt to not explode later. I believe I have managed to put behind me the stress and anxiety of the actual events, but am ready to explode with frustration over what is being done after the fact, by both the business and the media as a whole.

 

I’ve been following as much media coverage as I can and with very few exceptions have had all that I can take. I am ready to scream “ENOUGH ALREADY!” to both the media and those representatives of this industry who seem to be more concerned with spin, denial, and damage control than addressing real issues and perhaps saving lives.

 

How many times are we going to hear the same people, saying the same things? I think we all get the fact that Chris Benoit was loved and respected by everyone who knew or worked with him, and that his actions that weekend were horrific and unexplainable. I’m not trying to down play what happened or how horrible it was, but continually stating how horrible and inexplicable it was accomplishes nothing. Three people are dead and the media seems content to just point fingers of blame and throw buzz words like “Roid Rage” around instead of looking for solutions. On the other hand the Industry on the whole seems content to just deny and redirect, in hopes of moving past it all.

 

This is what has gotten to me the most, the denial. We’ve seen countless drug-related wrestling deaths in the last 10+ years and we (me included) have always managed to grieve, accept, and move on. In the past I think we have all managed to look the other way accepting that, for the most part, drug-related deaths are self-inflicted, and those who died had made their own choices and suffered their own fates. That doesn’t wash anymore! Two very innocent people are dead (Nancy and Daniel) and drugs in the wrestling business were at least, to some extent, a contributing factor. We can’t look the other way any more, attitudes about drugs and drug use in this industry have to change and they have to change now, before more people die.

 

This industry does have a drug problem and people need to start admitting it and addressing the problem at hand. I’m not saying that WWE is at fault here or that it’s roster consists of nothing but a bunch of drug crazed pill addicts and steroid monsters, but WWE’s constant spin that they, “Put smiles on people’s faces” and that they focus on and promote “Entertainment” not “Size” is a bit hard for me to stomach. I was so disappointed with The Larry King show with Cena and Jericho. Yes, WWE does put smiles on people’s faces, and yes they will promote entertainment in addition to size, but neither of those statements have much to do with anything except changing the subject and avoiding the issue.

 

In my opinion WWE needs to stand up and say, “Yes, drugs are a problem in our industry” and admit that they now realize that their wellness program isn’t doing enough. I truly believe that they implemented that program with good intentions yet they seem to defend it with half-truths and obfuscation. I think this business has been stuck in the old Kay Fabe era of wrestling so long that everyone still spins and denies out of habit. Steroids and pain pill addictions are a very real problem in pro-wrestling as they are in society as a whole, yet no one wants to admit what at this point should be painfully obvious. Now is not the time for denial or even blame placement. Now is the time for change. Now is the time for cleaning up this business, and saving lives. The status quo isn’t working; people are dying.

 

Lance Evers

I have to give all the credit in the world to Lance Storm for writing that. As Meltzer pointed out, it had to be tough, since Jericho is probably his best friend in wrestling.

[Guest Will]

They could start by not booking Jake Roberts if he demands crack to appear on a show, or not allowing dangerous stunts to be done in front of crowds of 50 people, or not booking WWE guys that get fired due to wellness violations (or any other known guys with problems), or not using veterans that like to stiff young guys to introduce them to the business, or not allowing guys that aren't properly trained to go out and take bumps. Indies could also do a lot to get the word out about the best and worst wrestling schools, to eventually nip the idea of scam trainers in the bud.

 

There are a lot of things indies could do that wouldn't even cost them a lot of money to help clean up wrestling. It's up to WWE to set the example, but it's up to everyone else to follow it.

I agree with you 100%, however, they may not have to SPEND money, they may/will/think they will LOSE money due to not having:

 

juiced up has-beens

juiced up green rookies that have "the look"

doped up guys falling off cages, balconies, and scaffolds

scarred freaks willing to be mutilated for a few bucks and some cheers

 

All of those steps are moral, progressive, and would go a long way to clean up this scummy business, but since when have the words "moral", "progressive", and "clean" ever been used to describe wrestling promoters or bookers?

 

At the least, I would like to see one promoter run a drug-free, relatively safe company so that there would be at least one guilt-free fed on the scene.

 

I like to think that WCW had some of those aspects due to it's large corporate ownership and their oversight (health insurance and generally less roided-out guys than the WWF in the 90's), but Bischoff/Hogan & Co./the Ex-Kliq guys/bad bookers tended to kill the positives of smaller, less-muscled workers, a lighter schedule, better drug-testing, and less stunt-bumps.

[Bix]

Meltzer at WC:

 

In laypersons terms, his T/E ratio at the time of death was 59-1. 1-1 is normal. 4-1 is a failure.

 

The toxicology report said nothing other than Chris had a done of steroids in him. If you believe in roid rage, you've been given conclusive proof it's possible. If you don't, you haven't been given any evidence it didn't happen. I don't believe in it in this case. Never have. Domestic dispute that went crazy.

 

But did steroids cause his depression and mood swings. I strongly believe they were one of many different factors, but only one. Cause violent behavior, again, maybe yes, maybe no. but it was deliberate, not uncontrollable rage.

[Loss]

We've all talked openly in this thread, and some of us have tried to predict what the WWE talking point would be after the press conference today.

 

Creating a distinction between steroids and testosterone never crossed my mind. Mainly BECAUSE IT'S STUPID.

[Tim Evans]

WWE's stance doesn't shock me in the least. It might be stupid but everyone knows WWE is saying it to save there asses. It might work and it might not. Just depends if Congress cares or anyone with power cares enough to call there bullshit.

[JHawk]

From WO.com:

 

The newest issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter comes out this coming Wednesday, which will be a jumbo-sized issue covering the latest in the news developments on the post-Benoit murder media furor. We update the story, as well as look back historically at the myths and realities of the steroid issue. We have a look back at the 1994 trial of Vince McMahon, what the charges were, and how the case ended up, as well as a look, individually at the wrestler deaths over the past ten years. We look at causes, what were drug related, what were natural causes, with lots of new details.

Somebody needs to give us notes of this column since the topic's been brought up.

[Bix]

Oh, Dr. Black...

 

The doctor in charge of WWE's Wellness Policy, Dr. Black, told "60 Minutes II" in 1995 that testosterone, which is considered a steroid and a method of doping illegal in the NFL, is an anabolic steroid.

 

Dr. Black appeared on 60 Minutes II in 2005 in a story about NFL players who were taking banned substances. Black was being interviewed by CNN anchor and 60 Minutes correspondent Anderson Cooper.

 

Cooper: "Offensive lineman Todd Steussie, 6-foot-6, 320 pounds, an NFL veteran and two-time pro bowler. Out of 190 games, he's missed only one because of injury, a remarkable record. His prescription record, however, tells a different story. Eleven prescriptions of testosterone creme over an eight-month period."

 

Cooper: "Is testosterone a steroid?"

 

Black: "Yes. Testosterone is the, ah, original base chemical, or the starting chemical for all the anabolic steroids."

 

Cooper: "Are NFL players allowed to take testosterone?"

 

Black: "Ah, no."

[Tim Evans]

As long as the Indy's keep on booking guys like Iron Shiek and Jimmy Snuka, No one can take them seriously about drug use. I mean look at the video of Shiek demanding crack to work. He's much worse than Jake Roberts. Then you have TNA taking back Dustin Rhodes, A guy that no showed so many dates I've lost count including SNME. Didn't he also get canned from TNA the last time for beating his girlfriend and getting arrested with drugs?

[anarchistxx]

I don't know why you'd care less now than then. Nancy and Daniel are every bit as dead as they were when the story broke.

It's basically old news.

 

I was shocked at the time, interested at first, but, like always happens with big news stories, you move onto the next one.

[tomk]

Meanwhile...

 

It's really impossible for me to comprehend how WWE is attacking the steroid issue publicly right. I understand being defensive and all that, but they've been comically inept at PR.

 

-The original "steroids don't cause asphyxiation" press release.

- Finlay's response to Alvarez relaying info straight from WWE's steroid policy and McDevitt being that it's "garbage" because he's not in the WWE lockerroom.

- Letting the wrestlers blog and get the policy wrong.

- The fact that the toxicology results will slaughter them in a few days while they're defending the hell out of their policy.

 

And so on.

 

Since it's Vince/WWE and they won't admit fucking up, they really need to shut up until they make any changes.

The letting wrestlers blog and get policy wrong thing is interesting to me.

I'm really curious as to how the decision to let wrestlers talk came about.

As clearly that is a change in policy.

At beginning you have Victoria blogging that she's worried about being punished for saying anything but wanted to post suicide hotline numbers.

Now you have Ken Kennedy doing long pieces.

 

The Larry King show clearly was a change as WWE realized that if you let your own talent talk to media you can help shape message (andmake demands as to who can and cannot be on the same stage with them). We are deep in the controling PR section of this story and the change from early media freeze, to the blogging Cena/Finlay on TV portion of the PR caampaign is a huge change in strategy. Kind of curious as to how it came about. Curious to what degree the wrestlers were coached in talking points and to what degree wrestlers are brainwashed enough by the biz that they've internalized the talking points and don't need to be coached. I assume I'll have to wait 20 years for an imbittered Davari to write a tell all book or something.

 

I'm astounded at the level of interest in this still.

 

I really thought people would be totally bored and done with it by now.

If Nancy and Daniel were killed by a black immigrant, would you be calling for more coverage?

 

I have to give all the credit in the world to Lance Storm for writing that. As Meltzer pointed out, it had to be tough, since Jericho is probably his best friend in wrestling.

Yeah really thumbs up for Lance Storm here.

[Jingus]

At beginning you have Victoria blogging that she's worried about being punished for saying anything but wanted to post suicide hotline numbers.

What, like being arbitrarily thrown onto Smackdown where there are no actual female wrestlers for her to work with wasn't punishment enough?

 

 

 

I'm fighting with people on some other boards who are STILL trying to claim that Benoit both didn't do it and didn't stick the needle in the ass.

[Loss]

Interesting tidbit from the latest F4W: The diary where Benoit wrote to Guerrero has not been found. Benoit went to great lengths to destroy boxes of documents and photos before he died.

[S.L.L.]

Curious to what degree the wrestlers were coached in talking points and to what degree wrestlers are brainwashed enough by the biz that they've internalized the talking points and don't need to be coached.

Considering I have never heard any variation of "we are in the business of putting smiles on people's faces" before, and now EVERYONE is using it, I get the sense that it's a lot in both regards.

[kjh]

I really would like someone to ask the obvious riposte to that talking point that everyone is forced to squeeze in: How does so many of your current and former wrestlers dying put smiles on people's faces?

[goodhelmet]

I'm fighting with people on some other boards who are STILL trying to claim that Benoit both didn't do it and didn't stick the needle in the ass.

 

Those people are fucking idiots.

[tomk]

I'm fighting with people on some other boards who are STILL trying to claim that Benoit both didn't do it and didn't stick the needle in the ass.

 

Those people are fucking idiots.

 

Umm...who is bigger idiot Bill Apter or the forensic pathologist who says "some of the best and soundest of people like Ernest Hemingway"

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNY2LFVBLhc

 

but really if people are arguing either that he didn't do it or that he didn't take steroids...those people really aren't worth arguing with. there are better uses ofyour time.

[Jingus]

Yes, they really are. I take great fun in pointing out how all the physical evidence destroys their arguments.

 

Who's worse: the people who claim Benoit didn't (kill people/take steroids), or the ones that claim that Benoit killed people because he took steroids?

[goodhelmet]

Well, because of the side effects of steroids that have been discussed ad nauseum that could have played a role, obviously the former. The latter isn't logic, that is just denial.

[Loss]

I don't really know what else there is to discuss about this at this point, but I do think it still needs to be discussed. Wrestling being a seedy business isn't some type of new revelation, but what is frustrating here is that WWE had a chance to use this horrible tragedy to listen to suggestions on changes from here forward, to revamp their public image, to do the right thing. Instead, they chose to spin things constantly and do damage control. Other, smaller organizations also had a chance to take a stand and they seem to just be staying quiet and are grateful that they're not the ones under fire. TNA, I'm looking at you.

 

Prior to the press release coming out from WWE where they yelled at the media for suggesting the idea that roid rage played a part in the deaths, I didn't really see anyone pointing a finger at WWE. WWE got so caught up in their own spin that they exposed their true colors, and they are now looking far worse than they even deserve to look in the aftermath of this tragedy. It's not WWE's fault that Chris Benoit killed himself and his family, and no one has even remotely suggested that.

 

I'm more disappointed in how WWE has handled themselves since this happened than I am at how they handled themselves before this happened. I think most people could have forgiven any screw-ups they made in the past if they really thought there was a genuine effort to clean things up now. If anything, WWE would have been commended if they stated that they strongly believed they had an effective wellness policy prior to this, and they still stand by that, but that they are eager to hear suggestions from anyone on what they can do to possibly prevent something like this from happening again, even mentioning that it was a mistake on their part to allow prescriptions to turn a failure into a passing test.

 

The media, without a doubt, has an agenda here, but because of the way WWE has handled themselves, they in many ways deserve whatever they get, whether it's fair or not.

 

Since when has WWE ever been concerned about treating their targets fairly?

[Jingus]

If they'd just shut up and said nothing, refusing to comment, they might've actually come out better than they have. Now you've got newspapers accusing them of spinning the story and lying, and rightfully so.