Guest Fando Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Because I was admittedly banned at another board earlier today for suggesting (granted, more derisively and curt) that it was a bit histrionic for select members of the IWC to throw out or perhaps solemnly burn their Benoit DVDs, I figured I might try and test the waters here. This is not meant as a work-rate, blind mark loving bullshit survey. It could feasibly be paired with any wrestler or with the business as a complete entity (KCook style, I suppose). And I realize Scott Keith put forward a more smug and grotesque version of something similar, which was mocked by folks at OLC (the same people who are excited over Photoshopping a pale, bruised childcorpse.) Even if one finds my asking it cold or naive, I mean it as a serious question that carries (potentially) real implications. So…Given that we know pro-wrestlers are already practically killing themselves (if not their immediate family) for their profession. And given the long list of actual artists and performers (actors, writers, musicians etc.) that are known to be sleazy, malevolent, traitorous, pets of dictators, incestuous and or murderous in their activities, but are also held as inventive, smart and adept practitioners of their trade, will the fact that Chris Benoit cold-bloodedly murdered his entire family now distract you from what actually occurred inside the ring for decades beforehand? I’m not so much interested in what people think of his "legacy" – which is really a matter undecided by fans – I want to know whether anyone here thinks they can stomach watching Benoit wrestle again after knowing what an obviously sick, horribly demented individual he was deep inside. I don’t think I want to watch him do diving headbutts off of cages, but I don't think I'll have problems reminiscing now and then with footage of him and other wrestlers, all of whom I am heavily reminded I never actually knew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 It will probably be difficult to watch Benoit matches for a while when everything's fresh, and it will probably be a little jarring when Woman comes out to manage someone for a little bit, but honestly anyone who throws out all their Benoit tapes but still watches WCCW is a hypocritical douchebag. Maybe I'm just jaded but it's just part of the job when you're a wrestling fan to have to compartmentalize the fact that 3/4ths of these guys are batshit insane. Now the situation this time is a little more extreme than the usual circumstances of a wrestling death, but that will just end up meaning it will take a little longer for things to get back to normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 I think most wrestling fans realise it's a shitty business, but nobody really wants to stop watching it. In that sense, Benoit exemplified what's good about wrestling, or rather what can be construed as "good." But in light of what's happened, the characteristics of a Benoit match (for me anyway) have taken on new meaning... It's probably stupid to feel that way, since these things never bothered me in the days leading up to the fact, but I don't think I can watch another Benoit match any time soon. I could probably watch another wrestling match given time, but at the moment wrestling is depressing to me. I live in Tokyo right now, and I will say that it's good to see someone like Hokuto on TV all the time, someone well adjusted who seems to have gotten out and stayed out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Because I was admittedly banned at another board earlier today for suggesting (granted, more derisively and curt) that it was a bit histrionic for select members of the IWC to throw out or perhaps solemnly burn their Benoit DVDs, I figured I might try and test the waters here.Don't ya love the ban-happy policies of many boards? Hell, that's why I first created The Pit, as a safe haven where you could say whatever the fuck you want without fear of the PC Police laying the smacketh down on your candy ass. As for me, hell yes I can still watch Benoit's matches. Part of that is because I;m a bit of a sociopath, and part of that is because I worked in wrestling for five years. I never saw anything quite as bad as the Benoit situation, but I saw enough really fucked-up shit and knew enough people who died that nothing really surprises me anymore. I can watch a Bruiser Brody vs. Invader #1 match with nothing more than a creepy sense of irony, and I'm sure Benoit's matches will affect me pretty much the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Not to threadjack, but from just a cursory glance (especially at the Politics forum) it seems the Pit is primarily made up of people who were banned from other boards for reasons other than the jackboot thuggery of the vaunted PC Police. I am glad that TheMikeSC found a place to continue fighting the good fight against the Liberal Menace. Anything to keep the wackoids off the streets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Well... I just get a kick out of people doing foamin-at-da-mouth arguing, but without the political talk show ability to cut each other off in mid-sentence. Yeah, the current events folder is way crazier than anything else on the site. I'm making a Benoit comp video for a friend. I truly have no soul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 I'm not going to let that sick bastard ruin my Wrestling viewing habits. I just watched a benoit match tonight. Saturn/Raven vs Benoit/DDP from the Thunder before Superbrawl 98. Good match. Hey Bix, You still selling the Benoit/Raven feud comp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 I tell you one thing that was impacted by the tragedy: my online habits. I can't thank Loss enough for providing us with shelter from the stupids during all this. I tried reading DVDVR again and there's *still* people making the claim that Benoit is innocent and it's wrong to assume otherwise just because the cops say so. This is pretty much the only wrestling board I read/post at now, just because I'm reasonably confident no one here is going to spout some silly bullshit that is going to make me want to kick my dog. I'll admit when the details started to slowly surface, I thought at first the murder-suicide aspect was something being wrongly reported by the media. Pretty much by the next day I realized what was being said really was what happened and dealt with reality. It sucks, but sometimes facts get in the way of what you wish was true. That can be applied to almost any kind of fervent fandom, so it seems somewhat unfair to single out wrestling fans, but then again we're all being conned into suspending belief in what we watch is legitimate sport. If you can buy that, the sky's the limit I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted June 30, 2007 Report Share Posted June 30, 2007 Thought this would fit the topic. from wo.com I read the latest Observer in the San Jose airport while waiting for a friend to arrive. I'm sure the other folks were wondering why there were tears streaking down my cheeks. It was a powerful piece of journalism. There was one thing that got me. It was the part where you say there may never be time to write the Chris Benoit story. I've been friends with folks at various museums, including the Football Hall of Fame. Apparently, after OJ Simpson was acquitted and during the time when everything came out and it was obvious that he'd done it, there was a movement to get him removed from the Hall of Fame and some who even wanted his records removed. They didn't want America's Favourite Sport sullied by having a murderer associated with it. The turning point was supposedly someone saying 'the story of football is not complete without the story of OJ Simpson playing it.' The same could be said of wrestling and Benoit. I hope that we will someday get that story of what Chris Benoit meant to wrestling, how he led the changes in style and philosophy. I work as a computer historian and I'm always having to say that there is nothing so powerful in the present as to change the past. Now isn't the time, because emotion is so high and the numbness hasn't set in long enough for people to be able to make the separation, but at some point, that story has to be told. You may not be able to do it, but someone has to and do it in a way that shows what he meant to the business without being fully clouded in his final, terrible, unforgivable series of choices. The world outside of wrestling sees Chris Benoit as a monster and nothing more. That's because they did not see the man who made everything so perfect in the ring. We see him as a monster now, and probably will from this point forward, but once he was a man who worked harder than anyone probably should. We have the chance to understand Benoit the wrestler, which I truly believe we must do, because there is no way we can ever fully understand Chris Benoit the man. Chris Garcia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantherwagner Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 I tell you one thing that was impacted by the tragedy: my online habits. I can't thank Loss enough for providing us with shelter from the stupids during all this. Mah man sek speaks the truth. It's nice to be reminded that there are some fans who aren't complete retards. Then again I think places like DVDVR, Scott Keith's forum, Wrestling Classics, etc. provide a social service keeping these people off the streets. We'll all get over it. It hasn't impacted my viewing habits because I don't feel like watching much of anything lately, but when I'm back watching in a week or a month or whatever is it, it will eventually be OK. In the last 12 months I have enjoyed matches of the guy who OD's at mom's house in Christmas, the guy who missed Survivor Series because he sodomized a little girl and the woman who owns a whorehouse in Tokyo. Last year at Smarkschoice we all were loving matches of the guy who killled the hooker throwing her off the window. If Snuka and Invader #1 didn't suck, we'd love their matches too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Spunk Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 I tell you one thing that was impacted by the tragedy: my online habits. I can't thank Loss enough for providing us with shelter from the stupids during all this. I tried reading DVDVR again and there's *still* people making the claim that Benoit is innocent and it's wrong to assume otherwise just because the cops say so. This is pretty much the only wrestling board I read/post at now, just because I'm reasonably confident no one here is going to spout some silly bullshit that is going to make me want to kick my dog. I'll admit when the details started to slowly surface, I thought at first the murder-suicide aspect was something being wrongly reported by the media. Pretty much by the next day I realized what was being said really was what happened and dealt with reality. It sucks, but sometimes facts get in the way of what you wish was true. That can be applied to almost any kind of fervent fandom, so it seems somewhat unfair to single out wrestling fans, but then again we're all being conned into suspending belief in what we watch is legitimate sport. If you can buy that, the sky's the limit I guess. The fact that fucking Benoit topic on DVDVR is like 80 fucking pages long, and every post is as dumb as the next one is ridiculous. People are still in doubt, its like a week later. Other people are talking about burning their Benoit tapes, DVDs, shirts, figures, deleting him from video games or just beating him up a lot in games. Is this the price of hero worship in a carny, scummy biz? When Eddie died it was all 'HEAVEN NEEDED YOU TO CHEAT AND STEAL OUR HEARTS' kind of shit, excusing the reasons why he died -- but at least he didn't take anybody with him. It made people feel alright because it was a tragic feel-good story. He was due for another title run (which, ironic enough, Benoit was due for an ECW title run the day he died too. Weird), was making good with his family and then died. Benoit is such a dark, dark thing. That being said, if it really, really affects how you watch pro-wrestling, I think you need to re-evaluate how you view entertainment in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 We'll all get over it. It hasn't impacted my viewing habits because I don't feel like watching much of anything lately, but when I'm back watching in a week or a month or whatever is it, it will eventually be OK. In the last 12 months I have enjoyed matches of the guy who OD's at mom's house in Christmas, the guy who missed Survivor Series because he sodomized a little girl and the woman who owns a whorehouse in Tokyo. Last year at Smarkschoice we all were loving matches of the guy who killled the hooker throwing her off the window. If Snuka and Invader #1 didn't suck, we'd love their matches too.Hey! Now that's just uncalled for. I'm appalled, offended, and disgusted by the content of this completely erroneous and inaccurate post. ...Snuka didn't always suck, he was pretty good back in the early 80's. But seriously, whorehouse madam and Lethal Weapon opening scene ripoff? Never heard those before, what's the dirt on this sleaze? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted July 1, 2007 Report Share Posted July 1, 2007 You talking about Jerry Estrada Jose? Didn't he throw a whore off a balcony? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Not really. I haven't come across anything with Benoit in it yet though. So I guess we'll find out then. I made peace with the fact that my hobby is scummy and carny a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 As a father first and a wrestling fan second, I have found it hard to watch his matches since this happened. When I was in Dallas, I brought along some DVDs to check out and Benoit was all over them. I had to skip the matches. I just kept thinking about what he did to his kid. With that said, I am also a history teacher who has no problem watching Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin every year so I may be able to watch his matches at a later time without feeling too torn up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
World's Worst Man Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 I'd imagine it's different for those who were emotionally invested into Chris Benoit and his wrestling matches, but I really wasn't, nor would I say I've even been a fan of his since the late 90's, so watching him wrestle is no problem for me. The situation is obviously something I'll think about every time I see him, but it's not something that will have an adverse effect on how I view his work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted July 2, 2007 Report Share Posted July 2, 2007 Ducked this for a while... On current viewing, I haven't been viewing much old or new recently. Just jammed up with other crap at the moment. So it hasn't changed current viewing. I did watch chunks of the "tribute" show on the West Coast feed out here, and I knew it was muder-sucide from the moment Cheetah had called. There was an uncomfortable creepy feeling watching it, and needing to check out of it regularly. I tried to use Keller's recap to get back in time to see the stuff the seemed important at the time. The Chavo stuff was extremely incomfortable. What Meltzer (or someone else) has written about the Hogg Wild match was what I felt then - he's Chris being seconded by his wife... and then noticing the dead Liz also seconding him... I had to get away from that thing. Going foward... I don't know. Obviously I'll watch Benoit matches at some point. It's hard to be a wrestling fan of what I tend to like without hitting a lot of his matches. I'll be honest and say that I don't know how I'll feel when he hits the screen at that point, other than knowing that I'll feel very different than I have when watching him in the past. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I wanted to wait to respond to this as well. I'm still interested in following wrestling in terms of reading message board posts and checking websites. But I tried to watch something the other day, that didn't involve Benoit at all, and it was hard to enjoy. The main reason is that finding a show to watch where everyone involved is still alive is virtually impossible. I found myself just focusing on who was dead and who was alive, which seemed really morbid, so I turned it off and did something else instead. I don't think I realized how desensitized I was to deaths in wrestling until this happened. I'm not going to stop watching wrestling or anything like that. But I hope at some point soon it starts getting fun again. I'm sure we all have enough shit to deal with in our normal lives without watching something for entertainment and being confronted with cold realities like the hazards of drug use, domestic violence and murder. There was a time when I first came online as a teenager, where it seemed like the more I learned, the more fake wrestling became. Now, it's a case where the more we learn, the more real wrestling becomes. I'm going to be watching quite a bit of Mid South soon, which will also have a lot of dead people, but should also do well to remind me why I started watching this stuff in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BilJim2 Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I find myself more interested in the peripherals with wrestling than I do the actual wrestling shows themselves. I've never watched a full episode of TNA, and I haven't watched Smackdown since it moved to Fridays. I do watch RAW, but not as much as I used to- I'd rather play PS3 let my son play PS3 until he goes to bed at 9:15, like tonight. But I'm DVRing the Larry King show tonight because it's about wrestling. Go figure. The interest just isn't there anymore when I know I can get any info off the Net. What happened with Benoit has zero to do with any of this, but the timing is pretty interesting as it looks as though I'll be pretty uninterested overall with wrestling by the time I'm 40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest marchhaire Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 The day after, it was hard. I felt stupid for watching a three hour show that was dedicated to a man who killed his wife and son. A week later, and it's past. Wrestling is an escape for me...if I don't enjoy something, I don't watch it. Plain and simple. Benoit matches from WCW are still extremely good...so I still watch them. Benoit/DDP vs. Raven/Saturn I saw the other day and got goosebumps...not because of Benoit, but because of how good stuff like that was. So it effected my viewing habbits for all of one day. Not a big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted July 10, 2007 Report Share Posted July 10, 2007 I was making discs for the up coming Y2J set and I still could not watch the Benoit matches that were on there. I had to time the segments or tune away from the TV until the match was over. However, when doing times for my Eddy set, I watched a Black Tiger vs. Wild Pegasus match, and even though I knew both guys were dead, it did not affect my viewing. I don't know if it is the WWE ring, or the younger looking Benoit, but I was able to sit through a Benoit match. Wierd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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