JHawk Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Somehow I thought IWA-MS would live forever. Like a horror movie monster, no matter what you do it wouldn't die.It seems like IWA-MS closes down every year as we approach the Ted Petty Inviational. I probably won't believe the promotion's actually dead until I'm dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 That was a great article Bix, it is easy to call IWA sleazy and to look at their shows from 2006 onward and look at the negatives, but during especially late 2002-2003, they were a great promotion that mixed comedy, southern brawling, strong upper card booking, and deathmatches together well. Chris Hero vs. Mark Wolf form the 6/7/03 shows is still one of the most underated indy matches of this decade and is as good as anything ROH did in 2003 minus Corino/Homicide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 I ran a google search recently and came across this and similar articles. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...le-robbers.html La Parkita and Espectrito Jr. were killed two months ago? How did that pass by unnoticed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 Is that who that was? Weird, cuz I did see the stories in a few mainstream news outlets. But the places I saw it didn't identify who they wrestled as, just gave their shoot names, so I didn't know it was them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunning_grover Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 WWE is not the only one who is trying to forget about Chris Benoit... A couple of New Japan Classics shows were aired on Samurai TV in May/June and they aired Super Junior finals... 1988, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1996... but they didn't air the 1993 and 1995 finals (by the way... there was no Super Juniors tournament in 1990, for those who didn't know)... and 1993 and 1995 were the finals where Benoit was working in them (and winning them)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 WWE is not the only one who is trying to forget about Chris Benoit... A couple of New Japan Classics shows were aired on Samurai TV in May/June and they aired Super Junior finals... 1988, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1996... but they didn't air the 1993 and 1995 finals (by the way... there was no Super Juniors tournament in 1990, for those who didn't know)... and 1993 and 1995 were the finals where Benoit was working in them (and winning them)... They had a IWGP #1 Contenders tourney in January 1990. Liger, Saito, Nogami, Iizuka, Matsuda, Hata, Honaga, Owen, Black Tiger (Rocco) and Wellington. Winner getting a shot at Sano. Liger of course beat Owen on 1/30 to challenge Sano the next night. In a sense, the progression is: 1984: WWF World Jr Hvy Title League 1985: nothing 1986: IWGP Jr Hvy Title League 1987: IWGP Jr Hvy Title Tourney 1988: Top of the Super Juniors League 1989: nothing 1990: IWGP Jr Hvy Title #1 Contenders League 1991-1992: Top of the Super Juniors League 1994-: Best of the Super Juniors League Not saying they're all the same tourney or that it's one "line". But I really don't consider the 1988 league to have much to do with the 1991 on forward leagues other than the name. It was closer to the five-in-seven years leagues & tourney that they pretty much randomly tossed out at need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJH Posted August 30, 2009 Report Share Posted August 30, 2009 Whilst it's an obvious correlation to make... but in the two-and-a-bit years since Benoit's been on NJPW Classics shows countless times, right? I don't know if you get them in the States but the re-releases "tagged classics" that WWE have out on DVD over here have featured Benoit matches without cutting them out. I understand not highlighting him or inundating him with praise on the Eddy or Rey DVD sets, say, but there's no reason for them to erase him completely. Surely there's a comparison to film or whatever of an actor/director who did something akin to what Benoit did and their films still get shown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 OJ Simpson. They still show the Naked Gun movies. Of course, it also helps that 1.OJ didn't strangle a little kid, and 2.his scenes in the movies almost entirely consist of Nordberg getting the shit beaten out of him by the whole universe. ...I just now realized what an odd thing it was to have a black guy named Nordberg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iron Chad Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I quit following IWA-MS in 2000-01 (being in Louisville, where they used to be, it was easy to follow them until they were run out of Kentucky by the athletic commission and ran out of buildings in Southern Indiana at that time), before their rebirth as a DVD based company, though I've caught many of their highlights since on DVD. I recall no less than 6 "THIS IS IT, WE'RE REALLY CLOSING" announcements thru 2000, and this is an indy that started in 1996. The rumblings were already starting that "IWA-MS will LIVE AGAIN~!" after the "final show" on Friday. I'd have it as at least a coin-flip it will resurface at some point in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Whilst it's an obvious correlation to make... but in the two-and-a-bit years since Benoit's been on NJPW Classics shows countless times, right? I don't know if you get them in the States but the re-releases "tagged classics" that WWE have out on DVD over here have featured Benoit matches without cutting them out. I understand not highlighting him or inundating him with praise on the Eddy or Rey DVD sets, say, but there's no reason for them to erase him completely. Surely there's a comparison to film or whatever of an actor/director who did something akin to what Benoit did and their films still get shown? Is it wrong to study Althusser when you're studying philosophy ? Of course not. (for those who don't know, Althusser was a structuralist philosopher, who ended up strangling his wife). Is it wrong to enjoy Robert Blake in "In Cold Blood" and "Lost Highway" ? Of course not. Is it wrong to listen to Noir Desir, arguably the best french rock band ever ? Of course not. (leader Bertrand Cantat killed his girlfriend actress Marie Trintignant, although he hit her without wanting to actually kill her) There are tons of instances like those, in pretty much every domain you can think of. Trying to erase Benoit from wresting history is pretty stupid to me. What if we erased everything Phil Spector produced ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 To me, IWA not begging for money means they're really closing. The whole point of threatening to close is to bring money in, and they always encourage people to buy stuff when they threaten to fold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 I wonder what kept Lawler from getting more major programs in the WWF, especially in the mid 90's. I guess size and shape. He was getting serious heel heat, and he could very well have been a good opponent at the WWF title level from 93 to 95 against Bret or Diesel. Seems like Vince never saw him as anything more than a special attraction, which in a way is sad. I'm not sold on "Lawler is one of the greatest US worker ever" at all, but for one I thought he was terribly misused in the WWF setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iron Chad Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 To me, IWA not begging for money means they're really closing. The whole point of threatening to close is to bring money in, and they always encourage people to buy stuff when they threaten to fold. Good point, but this one reads just like the "old school" threatenings to close from 1999-2001, but back then, there wasn't really anything to buy. Many of the shows weren't even shot for video back then (some great Wolfie D/Flash Flanagan matches were never shot), and I think even Bob Barnett had the video rights for their (to that point) biggest show, the 1st Eddie Gilbert Memorial, or maybe it was just his shoot was superior to the "official" shoot. At least now, there's a cache of videos to sell. I'll trust your judgment, Bix, but just wanted to point out this stuff reads straight out of the IWA-MS playbook dating back to before you started following the promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 By the way, is there a good source for the earlier footage? SMV has some but not a lot, and I know there are '96 shows floating around somewhere (including one where the tape in the camera runs out during the main event and they tacked on footage of Ian describing what happened). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Iron Chad Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 By the way, is there a good source for the earlier footage? SMV has some but not a lot, and I know there are '96 shows floating around somewhere (including one where the tape in the camera runs out during the main event and they tacked on footage of Ian describing what happened). In 1997-1998 IWA-MS had TV for maybe a month and did one or two TV tapings. I used to have those, but couldn't tell you if I still do, since no one has asked me about them in probably 10 years. A few others from that time period (a show in Lexington, KY had at least some taped as they switched the heavy title from Bull Pain to Axl and showed the footage on TV, and Gilbert 2 was taped and Ian used to sell it directly -- Doug and Severn v. Gordy and Dutch Mantell, in an eh main event that was supposed to be Doug v. Austin Idol) used to be available, but I have no clue where now. I'll ask around and shoot you a line if I run across anyone here with a line on post 1996 up to whenever SMV took over (2002 or 2003?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Morris Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I wonder what kept Lawler from getting more major programs in the WWF, especially in the mid 90's. I guess size and shape. He was getting serious heel heat, and he could very well have been a good opponent at the WWF title level from 93 to 95 against Bret or Diesel. Seems like Vince never saw him as anything more than a special attraction, which in a way is sad. I'm not sold on "Lawler is one of the greatest US worker ever" at all, but for one I thought he was terribly misused in the WWF setting. Part of it might have had to do with the fact that he wasn't devoting himself to WWF full time, so Vince wasn't going to push him that high up the card. Vince also seemed content with letting Lawler handle commentator duties and seemed to perceive him more as a joke wrestler. Plus, some of the wrestlers who Vince was pushing at the time, I really don't know if Lawler would have meshed well with them. I suppose one could argue that the rape allegations, even after they were dropped, meant Vince was leery of pushing Lawler too prominently. EDIT: And then there's the more obvious point: Lawler wasn't "Vince's creation" and so Vince wasn't as interested in making him a prominent player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 The Lawler thing: fact is, he was a 40 year old man with no visible muscles who was 5'9". The WWF was unlikely to ever push him period, even moreso since he was driving back to Memphis every week to keep working there. There are tons of instances like those, in pretty much every domain you can think of. Trying to erase Benoit from wresting history is pretty stupid to me. What if we erased everything Phil Spector produced ?True. But: 1. Wrestling gets judged differently from everything else in fictional media. Imagine the reaction if, say, Randy Orton even verbally threatened that he was gonna commit whatever horrible crime happened last night on Law & Order: SVU to Stephanie McMahon. Sucks that this fake show still gets treated as if it were more "real" than other "action-adventure programming", but it does. 2. None of those other guys did something like strangle their family with a chokehold similar if not identical to his signature wrestling finisher hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 I don't like WWE removing Benoit from history, but at this point it's obvious they are not going to change their position anytime soon. I can understand their point of view, you can't blame a company that is trying to recreate itself as family friendly PG fun for trying to make people forget they had a double murderer as champion not too long ago. I just don't see the point of getting mad about it anymore, it's not like it's going to get them to change their minds. I do sometimes wonder if they're more mad at Benoit for bringing more attention to steroid/HGH use than the murders. I have a feeling had the murders happened like they did but it didn't result in half the roster getting caught up buying their stash from mark doctors, they may have started putting him back on video releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 In which I write about the WXO in the first part of a new series on startup promotions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Re: Lawler. It's worth noting that when Lawler debuted, they did pair him against the promotion's #2 babyface. He was certainly given a feature program, the rape allegations shut the door on it prematurely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 #2? Who was #1? Hogan was on his way out the door permanently, Luger was still the Narcissist, Savage was an announcer, Razor was still a heel, Undertaker had lost some of his luster and was a midcard novelty gimmick, and Mr. Perfect was definitely below Bret on the totem pole. Am I missing anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 Well, Lawler's first program debuted at the KOTR, the night Hogan left, so technically, Bret was n°2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted September 4, 2009 Report Share Posted September 4, 2009 #2? Who was #1? Hogan was on his way out the door permanently, Luger was still the Narcissist, Savage was an announcer, Razor was still a heel, Undertaker had lost some of his luster and was a midcard novelty gimmick, and Mr. Perfect was definitely below Bret on the totem pole. Am I missing anyone? I'm looking at what the promotion viewed. Between Hogan and Luger the fans would view Bret as #1. But Vince didn't intend for that to last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 #2? Who was #1? Hogan was on his way out the door permanently, Luger was still the Narcissist, Savage was an announcer, Razor was still a heel, Undertaker had lost some of his luster and was a midcard novelty gimmick, and Mr. Perfect was definitely below Bret on the totem pole. Am I missing anyone? I'm looking at what the promotion viewed. Between Hogan and Luger the fans would view Bret as #1. But Vince didn't intend for that to last. Then why was Bret vs Hogan the original plan for SummerSlam? Also, why did Bret win the King of the Ring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Linda getting into an even more sleazy business? http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/58653...cement-imminent “She is taking into consideration a number of factors, including resources and the time commitment it would take to win,” he said. “She plays to win, so if she gets in, she’s in all the way. She has the capacity to bring considerable resources to the race, and she has an established record.” Buh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts