California legislature passes AB5 gig-work bill, which could turn contractors into employees

[sek69]

Dave RT'd a lawyer the other day laying out how WWE would be affected since they do business in CA and (I believe) have offices there. 

[JerryvonKramer]

  On 9/13/2019 at 9:23 PM, sek69 said:

Not to mention WWE gets to have their cake and eat it too with the current system. They get to lock people in with contracts just to put them on a shelf so they can't make money for a competitor, while getting to treat them the same way legally as someone doing a side hustle for Uber. 

Perhaps having to treat people they sign as actual employees and not something to hoard wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. 

I mean, is signing Mike and Maria for $500K (each?) to do approximately jack shit any worse than JvK's scenario of Ted Jr on TV every week. At least him being on TV might lead to something. 

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Entirely possible. I will not respond to any name calling, but this was a decent point from Sek69. It could lead to them simply signing fewer workers or taking fewer risks on new talent.

 

If other industries are anything to go by it will certainly not result in a situation of things remaining exactly as they are right now only with workers now having benefits and pensions. It will fundamentally change the way WWE and other wrestling companies operate -- that is assuming a situation of where this bill was federally mandated. If it's just Cali, I see them just working around it.

 

 

[Herodes]

  On 9/13/2019 at 11:54 PM, NintendoLogic said:

It's worth pointing out that "not an argument" is a Stefan Molyneux catchphrase. When did JvK go full alt-right?

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Stefan Molyneux who is of course an actual white supremacist

[JerryvonKramer]

  On 9/14/2019 at 12:14 AM, sek69 said:

Dave RT'd a lawyer the other day laying out how WWE would be affected since they do business in CA and (I believe) have offices there. 

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This guy shoots it down: 

And reading around Uber themselves seem like they think they can work around it, see here: https://www.cnet.com/news/uber-lyft-business-could-be-upended-by-california-gig-worker-bill

 

Last year in London there was a literal ban on Uber but they got that turned around in court -- has happened in a few UK cities actually -- so they have plenty of previous lawyering up and fighting at that level.

 

 

[sek69]

Yeah, Uber and Lyft were trying to get the CA legislature to carve out exemptions but the response was basically "nah dawg, you're why we're doing this in the first place".

  On 9/14/2019 at 12:22 AM, JerryvonKramer said:

If other industries are anything to go by it will certainly not result in a situation of things remaining exactly as they are right now only with workers now having benefits and pensions. It will fundamentally change the way WWE and other wrestling companies operate -- that is assuming a situation of where this bill was federally mandated. If it's just Cali, I see them just working around it.

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Bolded part alone makes it sound worth it based on everything we've ever heard about how WWE runs their business. 

Also what will probably force WWE's hand is not a situation where it's federally mandated (current makeup of Congress guarantees jack shit will get passed unless it's another handout to billionares), but if enough states pass similar laws to the point they can't just ignore one or two states it will cause a change.

[JerryvonKramer]

It would have to be Connecticut from what I can see. And one could totally see Vince just moving his HQ. I am not for the bill and you are, but hey that's politics.

 

Bottomline seems to be, though, that Dave didn't really need to report on this.

[sek69]

I mean, he kind of did. The moment news breaks that a major US state passed a law stating how employees can be classified, Dave's going to get lit up with questions about how this will affect WWE.  

[PeteF3]

Wow, THE Matt McEwen weighed on this to shoot it down? Amazing. Unprecedented. Wait...who is Matt McEwen again?

I'm hearing directly conflicting info on whether this law is across-the-board or not, so I don't know what to believe. But some of the responses to Eric D. Anderson's tweets (the lawyer who Dave is RT'ing) do a more effective job of illustrating how WWE could argue against this law (like arguing that it's unconstitutional since it in theory regulates interstate commerce, which is under federal authority only).

Edit: McEwen implies he spoke with an employment lawyer regarding this law. Which one? Who and when and where does he practice? I may be jumping to conclusions here but it sure sounds like Dave and Eric Anderson have had correspondence on this issue already and that Dave did in fact consult with him.

[El-P]

  On 9/13/2019 at 11:10 PM, sek69 said:

Ah yes, nothing like the "I'm taking leave of this thread you emotional cretins" tactic when your points all get blown the F up. 

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JDW approves this post. 

[El-P]

And yeah, everyone should have benefits and pensions anyway.

[JerryvonKramer]

  On 9/14/2019 at 8:34 AM, El-P said:

And yeah, everyone should have benefits and pensions anyway.

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So the trade off is more people will be unemployed and especially young people. Like in France.

[El-P]

  On 9/14/2019 at 12:02 PM, JerryvonKramer said:

So the trade off is more people will be unemployed and especially young people. Like in France.

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Of for fuck's sake. First, this is PWO, if you did not know, so this is irrelevant. Second, this board doesn't need your alt-right bullshit rethorics. I would not even even address stupid shits like this on a Facebook thread, much less here when I come to actually talk about a hobby that makes me think about other things that the shit this world is turning into because of "ideas" like these. So yeah, PWO. Do talk about old pro-wrestling building as much as you like though. 

[JerryvonKramer]

You can call names all you want but the French youth unemployment rate is near 20%, and it is because of legislation of this nature.  The idea that ALL jobs should come with benefits and a pension is absurd, many jobs especially at entry level don't and can't. You became emotional. I have stated facts. 

 

I have also explained why I'm against this bill both within wrestling and more broadly. And I've questioned whether it has direct relevance to the WWE.

[El-P]

  On 9/14/2019 at 2:08 PM, JerryvonKramer said:

You can call names all you want but the French youth unemployment rate is near 20%, and it is because of legislation of this nature.  The idea that ALL jobs should come with benefits and a pension is absurd, many jobs especially at entry level don't and can't. You became emotional. I have stated facts. 

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No. You're just babbling alt-right nonsense that we have heard for years and years already and it's about as factual as the Loch Ness Monster and Vince Russo being a great booker. I'm far from being emotional. If I got "emotional" on you, I would get banned, probably. I have no more time to waste with this, in my life in general too. Consider me a hardcore leftist on those matters and let's agree to disagree.

Anyway. It will sure be interesting to see how WWE and AEW react to this one.

[El-P]

(deleting my own troll post, not worth my time)

Edited September 14, 2019 by El-P

[NintendoLogic]

Jerry, it's been pointed out to you repeatedly that WWE wrestlers are already employees in all but name. You mentioned Pretty Boy Larry Sharpe, but he was free to work for any promotion that would book him. He was also free to walk out at any time if he didn't like how he was being booked or paid. Neither is the case in current WWE. They treat wrestlers like employees when it comes to controlling their work and like independent contractors when it comes to benefits. It's the worst of both worlds.

[El-P]

Slavery should be an option. I mean, worked for Uber, Amazon and the likes. WWE should look into this... They already book every babyface like complete bitches who bow down to their boss anyway.

[PeteF3]

It never seems to occur to these people that the economy and businesses might actually be *helped* if the rank and file actually have spending money of their own. But how it affects those poor, helpless "job creators" at large is a red herring anyway. The simple fact is there are specific criteria laid out for what constitutes an "independent contractor" and WWE wrestlers meet every single one of them. 

[KawadaSmile]

  On 9/13/2019 at 9:23 PM, sek69 said:

I mean, is signing Mike and Maria for $500K (each?) to do approximately jack shit any worse than JvK's scenario of Ted Jr on TV every week. At least him being on TV might lead to something. 

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Holy shit you are right! Were are they now? What happened to that cuck gimmick? So much untapped potential there and I'm only being half sarcastic.

[WingedEagle]

Has there been any confirmation that this bill applies to WWE, AEW, NJPW or any other promotion not based in California?  Headlines are juicy but absent concrete information about its applicability to specific companies any such discussion seems premature. 

[El-P]

  On 9/14/2019 at 5:37 PM, KawadaSmile said:

Holy shit you are right! Were are they now? What happened to that cuck gimmick? So much untapped potential there and I'm only being half sarcastic.

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They're on jury duty.

[JerryvonKramer]

  On 9/14/2019 at 5:38 PM, WingedEagle said:

Has there been any confirmation that this bill applies to WWE, AEW, NJPW or any other promotion not based in California?  Headlines are juicy but absent concrete information about its applicability to specific companies any such discussion seems premature. 

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From what I read in the two things I linked it applies only to companies which are HQ’d in Cali.

 

Does beg the question as to why Uber wouldn’t just leave but from a cursory search it does seem like they are looking to move. However Uber don’t book wrestling shows so it’s not our concern.

[NintendoLogic]

Dave said on Twitter that WWE has hired a lobbyist, so they clearly think it pertains to them.

[JerryvonKramer]

The lobbyist could be to stop it spreading to other states. If one pictures California like a tumour, these things tend to start there and spread to the rest of the USA. And there are natural reasons for every sane person to want to stop that, as well as some likely insane ones like Vince.

[sek69]

  On 9/14/2019 at 6:33 PM, JerryvonKramer said:

The lobbyist could be to stop it spreading to other states. If one pictures California like a tumour, these things tend to start there and spread to the rest of the USA. And there are natural reasons for every sane person to want to stop that, as well as some likely insane ones like Vince.

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Which means corporations are freaking out to make sure this doesn't spread beyond California since it's apparently every CEO's fear that their workers have even an ounce of security. Easier to control the masses if they're in constant fear of losing their jobs (hi Vince!).