The Cancellation of Jim Cornette

[Bix]

4 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

Cornette doesn't just hate Russo because he dislikes Russo's "creative" abilities, he hates him because Russo went behind his back and got him fired...twice. 

Russo freely admits in his first book that he went behind Cornette's back and gave Vince McMahon an "either he goes or I do" ultimatum to get Cornette fired from the creative team in the WWF, so McMahon chose Russo, who then brought in Ed Fererra. (Which coincided with WWF creative going directly into the toilet, but that's another conversation.)  Cornette ended up doing basically nothing in the WWF after that, until he proposed turning OVW into a developmental territory and moved back to Louisville.  But the one thing that Russo and Cornette agree on is that Russo is responsible for Cornette being taken off the WWF creative team and basically running him out of Stanford.

Years later, he puts aside his hatred of Russo and actually shakes his hand and calls a truce (which for Cornette is a minor miracle.)  He takes a job with TNA as a producer, but he is also a creative consultant.  After a while, Russo goes behind Cornette's back and...gets him fired.  Jarrett told Cornette that pretty much from the moment Cornette came on board, Russo was campaigning against him behind his back to Dixie Carter. There were occasions that Russo literally lied to Dixie Carter about things Cornette had said and done, in an effort to get him fired. Dutch has confirmed this as well, but best of all somebody leaked the emails Russo was sending Dixie Carter about Cornette, so he has documented proof that not only did Russo get him fired again, but he also was working behind Jarrett's back to get him pushed out of TNA as well.

So yeah, when it comes to Russo I don't much blame Cornette for hating him.  I don't know how I'd react if somebody went behind my back and got me fired twice, telling lies about me to do it - but I can't sit here and honestly say I wouldn't hate that person.

It wasn't a leaked email; it was an exhibit filed during the Konnan lawsuit because of the references to LAX.

[MoS]

I wanted to listen to Jim at his best after all his ridiculous nonsense, so I listened to a couple of Deep Dive Omnibuses - the JCP and OVW ones. He's really good when he's telling stories and recapping what happened. 

[El-P]

9 hours ago, joeg said:

Also the Justin Roberts joke is funny. People need to stop looking for things to be offended by. 

Wait. Weren't the Cult of Corny all up on Joey Ryan because he has done a fiew pedophile jokes on his Twitter (and I haven't seen them, but I guess it was actual jokes, not insults toward a real person he did not like) ? So ok, Joey Ryan is a scumbag because he did pedophile jokes (which you can think are funny or not, I dunno, I have not seen them), but Corny actually insulting a real person whom he doesn't like because he works for the pro-wrestling promotion he hates and calling him a pedophile is funny ? Really ?

Yeah, Memphis, that serpent's nest of though guys, old school shooters, real man and whatnot. Jerry Lawler, a guy with no body whatsoever, who never drank alcohol and liked to draws stuff. A geek, basically. Well, he liked younger girls, so I guess he was territory worthy...

[C.S.]

18 hours ago, joeg said:

Also the Justin Roberts joke is funny. 

Bet you wouldn't think so if someone you didn't like - Seth Rollins, Ultimate Warrior, etc. - said it.

This kind of hypocritical apologist behavior is sometimes rampant on PWO.

"Jim Cornette's real good at the rasslin', so Jim Cornette can do no wrong. Jim Cornette once fell off a scaffold for my entertainment, so he can say whatever he wants."

As much of a garbage heap as wrestling has historically been, and wrestling fans still are, Cornette has run out of free passes IMO. He's had one for way too long, and I blame sycophantic wrestling fans and promoters on that as much as anyone else. 

21 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

TNA ... After a while, Russo goes behind Cornette's back and...gets him fired.   

The ugly truth is, neither of them should have been in TNA at that point, because they were both complete liabilities with outdated booking styles and sensibilities - Russo (1990s) and/or Cornette (1980s) in TNA (mid-2000s) was never, ever going to work, just like Heyman has been a complete and utter abysmal failure on Raw, despite no one wanted to admit that because he's still popular. 

[SirEdger]

Heyman's first weeks had somewhat some potential but then, he fell right back into the pattern of popping Vince with cuckhold angles and here we are back to square one.

[joeg]

10 hours ago, El-P said:

Wait. Weren't the Cult of Corny all up on Joey Ryan because he has done a fiew pedophile jokes on his Twitter (and I haven't seen them, but I guess it was actual jokes, not insults toward a real person he did not like) ? So ok, Joey Ryan is a scumbag because he did pedophile jokes (which you can think are funny or not, I dunno, I have not seen them), but Corny actually insulting a real person whom he doesn't like because he works for the pro-wrestling promotion he hates and calling him a pedophile is funny ? Really ?

Yeah, Memphis, that serpent's nest of though guys, old school shooters, real man and whatnot. Jerry Lawler, a guy with no body whatsoever, who never drank alcohol and liked to draws stuff. A geek, basically. Well, he liked younger girls, so I guess he was territory worthy...

I just looked up the Joey Ryan jokes, they made me laugh (and made me feel like a bad person for laughing at them). And no Memphis was not a territory full of shooters, legit athletes,  or tough guys like Mid South or the AWA. Jerry Lawler had an athletic background, he played high school football and baseball. Not super impressive I know. But the thing is a lot of the guys out there now don't even have that modest sports background. I don't expect every wrestler to be a dangerous shooter or a stud former athlete, but there used to be a bare minimum of athletic background and being able to handle ones self that just doesn't exist any more. How can somebody break into wrestling never having played organized sports and never having been in a fight. It truly boggles my mind. What would happen to a guy like Janela or Jimmy Havoc if a drunk fan jumped the guard rail and went after them? They'd lose most likely.  I think its why so many matches now look like a theatrical performance rather than a fight or athletic contest. As soooo many of these guys have no experience being in an athletic contest or being in a fight, how could they possibly put on a match that resembles a fight or athletic contest. Talk to people outside of the internet wrestling bubble who casually watch wrestling from time to time. See how those types view some of the indierific guys out there at the moment.  

[El-P]

1 hour ago, joeg said:

I don't expect every wrestler to be a dangerous shooter or a stud former athlete, but there used to be a bare minimum of athletic background and being able to handle ones self that just doesn't exist any more. How can somebody break into wrestling never having played organized sports and never having been in a fight. It truly boggles my mind. What would happen to a guy like Janela or Jimmy Havoc if a drunk fan jumped the guard rail and went after them? They'd lose most likely.  I think its why so many matches now look like a theatrical performance rather than a fight or athletic contest. As soooo many of these guys have no experience being in an athletic contest or being in a fight, how could they possibly put on a match that resembles a fight or athletic contest.

I'm sorry but it sounds like a Bill Watts argument from the 80's, and even back then it was stupid. Pro-wrestling has always been a theatrical performance. The idea that a R'n"R Express vs MX looks more like a fight than a Young Bucks match is laughable. Double dropkicks anyone ? Alabama Jams ? Total credible fight stuff, not at all cool flashy movie-like stuff. Jerry Lawler's shit was as fake looking as anything in pro-wrestling, ever (a hundred punches to the face in a match, yet no bruise, ever, dropping the strap and making a comeback, I mean please...). Arn Anderson talks in his podcast how he is not a though guy at all. I mean, sorry but these aren't valid arguments.

Between Janela and Lawler (let's keep that one since he's Corny's idol), I don't see much difference in term of how they look physically, and Janella does much more athletic stuff than Lawler ever did too. And he apparently hasn't raped any 16 years old girls yet (that's for the Justin Roberts peodphile "funny joke" analogy...).

[The Thread Killer]

On 11/15/2019 at 9:49 PM, C.S. said:

Jim's a trainwreck and liability, and unless the NWA cuts bait soon, he will be the reason they don't get a TV deal, monetized on YouTube, or whatever their endgame is. 

 

On 11/16/2019 at 2:00 AM, SirEdger said:

At what point can Billy Corgan and Dave Lagana can just let Cornette say stuff like that on a weekly basis? At some point, they're gonna have to make a decision and accept the consequences of it, especially if holding onto Cornette as one of their employees cost them the viability of the promotion.

 

On 11/16/2019 at 3:28 AM, El-P said:

If Corgan is smart, Corny won't be at the next taping. I mean, seriously, he's just losing his mind.

I'm not so sure that Billy Corgan/Dave Lagana/the NWA are going to do anything about Cornette, for a couple of reasons.

People have alluded to the fact that Cornette has somehow "gotten worse" lately, and I don't think that is the case at all.  That just means you're not paying attention to him, and rightly so.  If you're not a fan of Cornette or the things he says, why would you pay attention.  But trust me...I've been listening to Cornette's Drive-Thru for a couple of years now, and quite honestly his opinion, bombastic rhetoric and outlandish name calling hasn't really gotten any worse during that time, it's been pretty consistent.  I only listen to The Jim Cornette Experience if I want to hear him talk about the topic advertised ahead of time - I don't really care about his opinions on politics and religion and current events.  I did start listening to "The Experience" weekly once he started reviewing AEW and NXT on a weekly basis and I agree that more people are hearing it now because of those weekly reviews, but his recent comments are not really a new development.  People might only be finding out about him now that more people are complaining about him, but he really hasn't changed.

I'm reasonably sure that Corgan and Lagana knew what they were getting when they hired Cornette, and that may in fact have been one of the reasons they hired him.  They didn't just pull his name out of a hat.  I think they hired him because they wanted him to appeal to old school, traditional wrestling fans.  They wanted somebody who reminded fans of the old days and talked about how much better they were. I'm pretty sure they knew his reputation when they hired him, otherwise they didn't do their due diligence and just weren't paying attention.  If they wanted somebody safe or bland, there are a million guys they could have hired.  They wanted Cornette for what he brings to the table, and a huge part of that is his obnoxious personality.  Hell, his recent tenure in MLW was not without some controversy, and they had to have seen/heard about that.

There is a flipside to this situation and I think it bears discussion.  Cornette's die-hard fans are slavishly devoted to him, and like it or not there are a lot of them.  "The Cult of Cornette" is quite large and where Cornette goes, they follow.  When Cornette announced he was going to be working for the NWA, he encouraged his listeners to check the show out and judging by the numbers, they did.  Are Cornette fans enough to sustain NWA Power?  Of course not, it would be stupid to think that.  But having said that, if the NWA fired Jim Cornette, it's a safe bet a good chunk of his most cult-like followers would stop watching. Hell, a lot of those drooling morons would jump off a cliff if Cornette told them to. I am thinking Corgan and Lagana had a "risk vs. reward" conversation when it comes to employing Jim Cornette. Yes, you're going to have to do some damage control over some of the things he says on his own podcast and deal with potential blowback, but he also brings fans to the product and appeals to the demographic they are going for.  Let's keep in mind, of all of these controversies lately (some real and some manufactured) how many of them are for things he said or did on the air in the NWA?  All they have to do is go with the old "what Jim Cornette says and does on his podcast are his own business and the NWA are not responsible for that" line.

I agree that the Twitter outrage machine has been in overdrive regarding Cornette recently.  There are people literally going through every single thing he has said over the past few years, and listening to all his new material just looking for something to get offended by, so they can spread it around (and report it as "news?!") to try and get him in some kind of trouble.  But let's be honest...Twitter outrage is not indicative of real life.  Just because a handful of people on Twitter are horrified by Cornette and are complaining about his comments that doesn't mean it is going to significantly impact the NWA. Besides, and this is a key point...how many of the people complaining on Twitter about Jim Cornette are actual NWA fans anyhow?  Does their hurt feelings and outrage really affect the bottom line for the NWA? A lot of the people going mental over Cornette on Twitter already hated him for the things he says about AEW and AEW wrestlers, and weren't going to support anything he did anyhow.  I don't think the NWA getting rid of Cornette is going to mean a huge upswing in support from modern Pro Wrestling fans.

The bottom line is anyhow, Cornette legitimately doesn't seem to care.  At this point I don't think he needs the NWA, the NWA needs him.  When that recent outrage broke out over the comments Cornette allegedly made regarding suicide, Dave Lagana called him and asked him about it.  Cornette talked about it on The Jim Cornette Experience.  He claims that once he pointed out that he hadn't actually encouraged anybody to kill themselves and there was no evidence that he had, the issue was dropped.  But he made it pretty clear at that time that he really didn't care if the NWA did fire him over it. He is next scheduled to appear for the NWA when they have the PPV in the middle of December, followed by two days of TV tapings. His comment was something to the effect of "So you mean I wouldn't have to leave my home to drive all the way to Atlanta during the busiest time of year for my collectible's business to do a part time job for very little pay?  Oh no!"

During the same episode, he talked about some of the things he has said about Kenny Omega.  He pointed out that he has publicly said that for the crime of wrestling a blow-up doll and a 9 year old girl in Japan, Kenny Omega should be suspended in the air and lowered into a vat of boiling oil.  Cornette asked if anybody actually thought that he really wanted Omega to be boiled to death?  Of course not, at most he'd just like to see him get a couple of fingers broken. Whether or not people want to admit it or not, 90% of the outlandish things Cornette says on his podcast is just a bunch of hot air.  Are some of the jokes funny?  Absolutely.  Are some of them in poor taste and offensive?  Absolutely. I consider myself a Jim Cornette fan (although I am hardly a member of the "Cult of Cornette") and some of the things he has said over the years have mildly offended me on rare occasions.  Big deal.  It turns out that words can't actually hurt you.

I could be wrong (it's been known to happen) but I don't see the NWA firing Cornette unless he does something on the air there (which they could easily edit out) or if he says something new on one of his podcasts that creates a new controversy that they don't feeling like weathering.  But it would have to be a lot bigger than anything he's said so far, in my opinion. It's equally possible that Cornette might quit on his own.  Doing two or three days every other month works fine for him, but if the NWA actually succeeds and expands, he's not going to want to be a part of that.

[SirEdger]

I understand what you mean here and while I agree that most of Cornette's rants are for more imagery than anything (ex: the Omega stuff), there are some lines that are dangerous to cross. I mean, making paedo jokes in regards to Justin Roberts - especially knowing the role he played with Connor Michalek and what subsequently happened with Connor's Cure -, there are just some things that he just needs to be more careful about.

[The Thread Killer]

1 minute ago, SirEdger said:

I understand what you mean here and while I agree that most of Cornette's rants are for more imagery than anything (ex: the Omega stuff), there are some lines that are dangerous to cross. I mean, making paedo jokes in regards to Justin Roberts - especially knowing the role he played with Connor Michalek and what subsequently happened with Connor's Cure -, there are just some things that he just needs to be more careful about.

I don't disagree with you, and I hope nobody misinterprets my opinion about Cornette getting fired from the NWA to be me advocating for Cornette or endorsing some of the jokes he made. I don't think paedophilia is particularly funny, nor do I think Cornette should have made that joke.  Hell, when he made it even Brian Last had an audibly negative reaction to the comment.  But I also understand that is Jim Cornette and that is what you're going to get once in a while when you listen to him. He's a guy who is known for saying outrageous shit that said some outrageous shit.  And if it costs him, then he has nobody to blame for that aside from himself.

[MoS]

7 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

Of course not, at most he'd just like to see him get a couple of fingers broken. 

Not going to lie; this made me laugh out loudly. 

Cornette being Cornette is one thing, but what has made the podcast a chore to get through is how Brian Last also seems to have embraced Cornette's gimmick of being ornery and obnoxious, including fighting with wrestlers on Twitter. However, he does not have Cornette's charisma or delivery - not to mention historical significance - so it's a hundred times more unbearable. 

[hammerva]

Well you knew that NWA Power was going to have to deal with shit and now they have a big problem

Now apparently he used the same line in the 80's for Big Bubba.   The problem is that it was the 80's and not only was racism tolerated it was almost encouraged in some places.  The shocking thing to me is Lagana or whoever edits their shows knowing all of the shit with Cornette going on would just so ahead and leave it in 

EDIT:  Apparently they took down the show and are re-editing.  Yeah too little too late 

 

[El-P]

The "motorscooter" was a giveaway that it was a dated line. That doesn't make it right though. Yeah, whoever edited this show screwed up big time. Corny ain't gonna be back. Too much of a liability, between this and talking about Kenny Omega looking like is butt plug fell off on his podcast...

[Mad Dog]

I think he's gotten a little too deep into the gimmick.

[PeteF3]

Yeah, for a company outwardly begging to get a TV deal out of this, shit like that can't fly. 

One could wonder how in the name of fuck that line could sit in the can for a month and not get edited out before airing, but knowing Corgan's political beliefs and Lagana's too, apparently, they probably really didn't see anything wrong with it.

https://twitter.com/KyleNotGuile/status/1196960269114712065

[El-P]

15 minutes ago, PeteF3 said:

but knowing Corgan's political beliefs

Well,  had no idea so I googled a bit. So, Corgan had basically turned into the american Morrissey or something ?

Well he was always a fan of Rush, so it's not like I thought he was some leftist anyway but...

[PeteF3]

I think Corgan might be more like the American David Icke but this is admittedly outside my area of expertise. 

[Cobra Commander]

if you're the guy (yeah, singular more likely than plural) handling NWA Powerrr, shouldn't you have pretty much 90% of the shows in the can shortly after taping? with only like the countdown stuff and some of the meta commercials to add.. figure out the 10 episodes, do some snipping for content and certain lines, cough cough..

in other words, how the fuck does something like that said around 7 weeks ago end up undetected until just after the show goes live? of course the guy who does like 4 hours of pretty-much-in-house podcasts a week would have his problem from something that should have been deleted a month ago. It's Jim's fault, obviously, but the people handling Powerrr fucked up too.

When Jim referenced the Challenger in the 80s, they cut the tape and went to a second take. They didn't air it 7 weeks after it was said.

[El-P]

3 minutes ago, PeteF3 said:

I think Corgan might be more like the American David Icke but this is admittedly outside my area of expertise. 

I have no idea who that man is. I just looked at Wiki. Holy shit. 

[Cobra Commander]

Billy Corgan is a weirder version of Moby. And Moby is a weird man in his own ways.

Anyways, Jim might need to hibernate a little for his winter.

[Mad Dog]

I think this is what happens when your character starts playing you.

[The Thread Killer]

On 11/18/2019 at 2:05 PM, The Thread Killer said:

I could be wrong (it's been known to happen) but I don't see the NWA firing Cornette unless he does something on the air there (which they could easily edit out) or if he says something new on one of his podcasts that creates a new controversy that they don't feeling like weathering.  But it would have to be a lot bigger than anything he's said so far, in my opinion.

He barely gave me 24 hours after making this post to go and prove me wrong, I guess.

Just to echo what everybody else has said...this was at best a stupid, insensitive and racist comment to make, but how the HELL have they had this episode in the can for almost two months and they didn't edit it out?  Either Corgan/Lagana are incompetent and didn't notice, or they're stupid and thought it wouldn't be a problem. Either way...yeeesh.

[Mad Dog]

1 minute ago, The Thread Killer said:

He barely gave me 24 hours after making this post to go and prove me wrong, I guess.

Just to echo what everybody else has said...this was at best a stupid, insensitive and racist comment to make, but how the HELL have they had this episode in the can for almost two months and they didn't edit it out?  Either Corgan/Lagana are incompetent and didn't notice, or they're stupid and thought it wouldn't be a problem. Either way...yeeesh.

I am not defending them but I have edited podcasts, marked something in my notes to delete, posted it and realized I left it in or forgot to add the opening. Now granted, I do that shit for free and am not a professional.

[The Thread Killer]

41 minutes ago, El-P said:

Well he was always a fan of Rush, so it's not like I thought he was some leftist anyway but...

The whole "Rush are huge fans of Ayn Rand" thing got blown way out of proportion and is from literally over 40 years ago.  I am pretty sure their political positions evolved over the years since then.  And I'm not even saying that as a huge Rush fan, because I'm not.  However, as a Canadian I am constitutionally bound to defend them while at the same time disavowing Nickelback.

[Mad Dog]

3 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

The whole "Rush are huge fans of Ayn Rand" thing got blown way out of proportion and is from literally over 40 years ago.  I am pretty sure their political positions evolved over the years since then.  And I'm not even saying that as a huge Rush fan, because I'm not.  However, as a Canadian I am constitutionally bound to defend them while at the same time disavowing Nickelback.

I checked the Geneva Conventions and you are due for a Bryan Adams apology...