AEW Dynamite Week 8 - 20 Nov 2019

[Slasher]

Yeah I think the Bucks can get their heat back anytime but I actually think Omega is hurting himself with this presentation of his character. Listen, the Bucks have already gotten over in America so it is kinda like they understand what American audiences like but Omega as far as I can see did not get over until he went to Japan. So he is running with this concept of his character like the video game ties and stuff that got him over with the Japanese audience, but its just not working as well here in America. The more Omega continues with this, the harder I think it will be to get him to the place they planned or expected him to be at when time comes for it. Just my guess.

[C.S.]

4 hours ago, El-P said:

The thing is with some of the AEW roster, I'm familiar with them from other places.  

That definitely helps, but AEW of course cannot rely on that.

Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy got over with me sight unseen. Stunt was a head-scratcher until I saw him wrestle. Then I got it.

Emi Sakura got over with me immediately.

They need to figure out Kenny Omega ASAP because he's not coming across like a star at all. 

[Slasher]

Joke or not, them revealing Omega lifting ten pounds or so total on the bench press was a bad look for a guy you're supposed to see as a star. Like what could that have possibly accomplished other than to make him look like a geek?

[C.S.]

1 hour ago, Slasher said:

Joke or not, them revealing Omega lifting ten pounds or so total on the bench press was a bad look for a guy you're supposed to see as a star. Like what could that have possibly accomplished other than to make him look like a geek?

It was as stupid as when Tyson Fury did the thing with the pen.

I guess other people "got that" and I didn't, but it did him no favors IMO.

As for Omega, yeah, that was pointless.

[Alucard]

While they're doing a different act here and Ortiz especially more over the top psycho with the expressions, I think they are both very capable talkers if/when allowed to be. As mentioned Konnan of course was always a big plus to the whole act but their last promo was my favorite of theirs.

 

[MoS]

In their case, they need to find ways to get videos like the one that aired in the countdown to Full Gear on TV. That was an amazing video. I know vignettes lose viewers and ratings are important, but stuff like that would definitely help in getting them over. 

[peachchaos]

I'm not sure we'll ever see Kenny Omega get over with the audience in the States like he was over in Japan. So much of his success seems directly related to working those islands. You watch the video package from Full Gear and it certainly seems like Japan is Kenny's muse. He almost seems lost when he works the States. If Omega ever was the best worker in the world, he was only the best in the world when he worked Japan. 

You'd think a guy as talented as Kenny would be able to adapt and get himself over a different way, but yeah, this ain't it. They're working it into a comedy angle, but he genuinely seems unmotivated and uninspired to be the workrate machine everyone expects. 

[El-P]

 If you listen to the interview with Meltz, it's obvious he's more interested in doing different things, like having a match with Janela, having a crazy deathmatch (done), becoming great at intergender matches in Japan etc... He's less focused on getting himself over than trying to make other people right now (that is, as a producer too). As far as big matches go, he more than delivered each and every time, be it against CIMA, Janela, PAC or Moxley (or Janela). Plus let's be honest, he's still one of the most over guys on the roster.

[SirEdger]

10 minutes ago, peachchaos said:

I'm not sure we'll ever see Kenny Omega get over with the audience in the States like he was over in Japan. So much of his success seems directly related to working those islands. You watch the video package from Full Gear and it certainly seems like Japan is Kenny's muse. He almost seems lost when he works the States. If Omega ever was the best worker in the world, he was only the best in the world when he worked Japan. 

You'd think a guy as talented as Kenny would be able to adapt and get himself over a different way, but yeah, this ain't it. They're working it into a comedy angle, but he genuinely seems unmotivated and uninspired to be the workrate machine everyone expects. 

To be fair, Kenny Omega hadn't performed regularly in North America for years before the creation of AEW. The crowds are definitely different, so are the styles appealing to the audience. So I'm completely understanding of the difficulty Kenny must have to fully convey the style he was doing in Japan here. It's an adaptation process but I'm confident Kenny will find the right footing to do so. And like El-P said, The Elite guys are more focused on creating new stars than putting themselves over at the moment, and that's what they need to do. That and address some of the issues they've had since the beginning, including getting the crowd more behind the Women's division. We need to know more than Riho and Britt Baker.

[sek69]

People forget because of name/gimmick changes but Luchasaurus was one of the people who's accusations ended up sinking Bill Demott in NXT. That probably sticks in Vince's craw as much as Cody and Jericho being big stars.

[FMKK]

19 minutes ago, peachchaos said:

I'm not sure we'll ever see Kenny Omega get over with the audience in the States like he was over in Japan. So much of his success seems directly related to working those islands. You watch the video package from Full Gear and it certainly seems like Japan is Kenny's muse. He almost seems lost when he works the States. If Omega ever was the best worker in the world, he was only the best in the world when he worked Japan. 

You'd think a guy as talented as Kenny would be able to adapt and get himself over a different way, but yeah, this ain't it. They're working it into a comedy angle, but he genuinely seems unmotivated and uninspired to be the workrate machine everyone expects. 

Tbf, has he had a bad match in AEW? The character/booking hasn't necessarily been ideal but all of his matches have been really good in my opinion. People are talking a bit like he's been shitting the bed.

[El-P]

8 minutes ago, sek69 said:

People forget because of name/gimmick changes but Luchasaurus was one of the people who's accusations ended up sinking Bill Demott in NXT.

Like I needed another reason to love the guy.

9 minutes ago, SirEdger said:

 So I'm completely understanding of the difficulty Kenny must have to fully convey the style he was doing in Japan here. It's an adaptation process but I'm confident Kenny will find the right footing to do so.

He said it himself, he still is in the process of figuring how to work in a weekly US program. So he's perfectly aware of the fact he does not have the same aura he had in Japan.  It's a work in progress. It's not like he has Cody's experience on this matter.

[sek69]

They weren't on the level of his six star classics in Japan so therefore in some people's eyes it's a flop.

[SirEdger]

27 minutes ago, sek69 said:

People forget because of name/gimmick changes but Luchasaurus was one of the people who's accusations ended up sinking Bill Demott in NXT. That probably sticks in Vince's craw as much as Cody and Jericho being big stars.

If Vince never made the connection that Luke Gallows worked as Festus (which was confirmed in an interview by Gallows), I seriously doubt Vince knows/remembers that Luchasaurus was part of that people that got Bill DeMott fired.

[Slasher]

Well yes his character is a flop. No one here is talking about his workrate. All the criticisms so far is about his character and how he is portraying it. It doesn't help that guys who were signed later on got over quickly compared to Omega (like Moxley). He went from being the hot thing to being a guy no one cared about in such quick order. Luckily for him, as evident here, people are willing to give him quite the leash to get it corrected.

[FMKK]

I think narratives sometimes overtake reality. I can understand being a bit underwhelmed by Omega if you had heard his name and his reputation but hadn't really watched him until AEW. So he's a work in progress there. And he needs some serious promos to get himself over. But the matches have all been at least good, some borderline great. And if he does a straight singles with Mox down the line, it'll be exceptional.

Similar situation with Britt Baker. She's a green worker who's still finding her feet and is probably being pushed too hard because the depth of talent isn't there. But people are making out as if she's been a complete disaster in-ring. She's been perfectly fine. This is her first national TV gig and she's having to learn on the job so her matches are probably going longer than they otherwise should but she'll improve. It isn't like she's Eva Marie.

[El-P]

Let's be honest, everything about AEW is totally overscrutinized. Even when you think about how it's said that their female roster doesn't even scratch WWE's. Well no shit. WWE has been the N°1 in the business for most of the last 35 years. They have almost unlimited ressources at this point. They have signed and developed women for a good 6/7 years now and have grabbed most of the most promising/talented girls out there in the last 3/4 years. And then people act like "Aww, AEW's women roster is so weak, it's embarrassing blabloubli." Well, they are not even a year old company with barely two months of TV. Hey, IMPACT has a better women's division than AEW. They have been in this game since 2007. In what universe could AEW's women's division be up there with WWE's ? It just makes sense.

AEW is still green as shit as a company. People seem to forget they are not WCW in 1995, coming off 5 years of existence as a national company with the heritage of the Crockett territory. The fact they have been as good as they have is simply amazing, which is what makes people lose their mind. How dare they ? So, every little stuff that isn't connecting yet, every gimmick that is not over, every match that is not great (despite the fact we're told all the time that great matches don't matter, go figure), every quarter in the ratings they don't win is just painted as a miserable failure that has to be corrected NOW or even impending doom.

[sek69]

28 minutes ago, SirEdger said:

If Vince never made the connection that Luke Gallows worked as Festus (which was confirmed in an interview by Gallows), I seriously doubt Vince knows/remembers that Luchasaurus was part of that people that got Bill DeMott fired.

Maybe not, but you think Hunter forgot? Doubtful. 

[FMKK]

I'm expecting Omega to go all out against PAC on Wednesday. It'll be interesting to see who the next big challenger to Jericho is after the Scorpio stuff is done.

[Slasher]

Again people are focusing on the in-ring work, which is absolutely not what is being criticized. I understand Omega is a great worker, I can see it in the matches that he's had just in AEW alone. But his character sucks, plain and simple as that. When you have a guy who let's be honest isn't as good a worker like Moxley get over in AEW, its because his character is someone the fans can sink their teeth in. He looks 100x cooler than what Omega's been doing. You have Luchasaurus who is obviously a bit different as a character compared to most in AEW, you have Jericho who is absolutely killing it as a character despite not being as good in the ring as he used to be, you have Cody Rhodes finding the right character and becoming the franchise ace as a result, all of those people have good characters. Omega does not. That is what is being criticized here. I do agree that it seems like he left it all behind in Japan, and he is gonna have to find a way to connect with the audiences in the States. It's still way early and I am sure he will get it going eventually, but I don't think its wrong to say his character sucks right now. Him and Page both.

[El-P]

I dunno. Omega basically is like Bret Hart or Chris Benoit, he is canadian and he's a great wrestler. That's about it, he doesn't need to be a "character" beyond this. Oh, and he's got kind of a quirky personality and loves video games and Japan.

As far as Page, same deal. He's a young, good looking workhorse pretends to be (corrected) from Texas, hence the cowboy look. What was Barry Windham's "character" anyway ? I mean, if you take some of WCW's comparable workers in term of status on the card, what was Booker T's character apart from being a workhorse from pretend Harlem who said "sucka" a lot ? Well, Page is a guy from pretend (corrected) Texas who says "cowboy shit", uses a bunch of lariats and has ridden a horse to the ring once. Works for me thus far...

[NintendoLogic]

Page isn't from Texas.

[El-P]

Ok. Corrected. Booker was not from Harlem either, so my analogy is even better that way.

[Slasher]

Nah there's no comparison between how Windham or Booker T. was portrayed and how Omega and Page are portrayed.

I doubt Windham would have cut promos while bench pressing 10 pounds. I doubt Booker T. would have whipped out a barbed wire broom. And their characters were definitely better defined unless you think video game nerd and a skinny cowboy wannabe are good characters... 

 

[TheDuke]

Omega should push a janitor cart to the ring with like buckets and mops on it. And after squash matches he should take a rag and spray bottle out and use them on the jobbers. And he should make a list of as many cleaning and janitor puns he can and use them in all his promos and interviews.