sek69 Posted May 18, 2023 Report Share Posted May 18, 2023 9 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: WWE isn't just coasting on TV money, though. The product is genuinely hot right now. And the idea that the company is on autopilot with Vince having little or no direct involvement flies in the face of everything we know about the guy. Regardless, given his long record of crimes against decency (not to mention actual crimes), Vince is someone for whom the classic dril tweet holds true. You do not, under any circumstances, gotta hand it to him. The product is hot, but honestly it's just a bonus when it is. They were doing just fine before they got hot, not making as much money of course, but you have shows like Mania and the Rumble that sell out before any matches are announced (well the Rumble always has at least 2 matches announced, but you know what I mean). Of course Vince is a shitbag of world class proportions, but he is also undoubtedly the greatest wrestling promoter in history. He got WWE to the point where it was basically idiot proofed by getting massive TV deals, and then getting Endeavor to pay way more than anyone thought to buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted May 19, 2023 Report Share Posted May 19, 2023 Roman Reigns is the key to it all. The true Strong Style Savior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted May 19, 2023 Report Share Posted May 19, 2023 So, Vince selling: is that the end of the Empire? And does Vince bailing mean Tony K won the "war"? I'd answer "yes" to both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 19, 2023 Report Share Posted May 19, 2023 I mean no matter what TK was going to outlast Vince, even if he's doing his damndest to make up the 40 year cocaine head start Vince had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted May 19, 2023 Report Share Posted May 19, 2023 19 hours ago, Dav'oh said: So, Vince selling: is that the end of the Empire? And does Vince bailing mean Tony K won the "war"? I'd answer "yes" to both. How can we say the empire ended, tho? It's more accurate that they just changed the keys to the throne room, as it stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Embrodak Posted May 20, 2023 Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 WWE entering the Byzantium era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLB Posted May 20, 2023 Report Share Posted May 20, 2023 WCW sold for $4.2 million and WWE sold for $9 billion. You do the math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 21, 2023 Report Share Posted May 21, 2023 That's not really fair considering WCW had all their TV canceled and made them as coveted as a turd in a punch bowl. If that hadn't happened it would have been sold for way more. Not $9 billion of course, but significantly more than $4.2 mil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfectly Straightedge Posted May 22, 2023 Report Share Posted May 22, 2023 On 5/21/2023 at 2:28 AM, sek69 said: That's not really fair considering WCW had all their TV canceled and made them as coveted as a turd in a punch bowl. If that hadn't happened it would have been sold for way more. Not $9 billion of course, but significantly more than $4.2 mil. Shhhh….that doesn’t fit the narrative this guy is trying to make. Lol Also let’s not factor in that WCW sold in 2001 and not 2023. Whenever media rights are absolutely a whole different ball park now. Oh well….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLB Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 14 hours ago, Perfectly Straightedge said: Shhhh….that doesn’t fit the narrative this guy is trying to make. Lol Also let’s not factor in that WCW sold in 2001 and not 2023. Whenever media rights are absolutely a whole different ball park now. Oh well….. How are media rights in a whole different ballpark now? Wasn't creating a narrative, it's a vast disparity in sale numbers. I think it's insane. You think having the FOX/USA/Peacock deals and 20 years of inflation is worth $8.6 billion dollars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 Its apples and oranges because media rights for sports (including WWE in this context) ballooned tremendously in the last decade or so since networks are desperate to overpay for the one thing that doesn't have declining viewership. If the exact same situation with WCW happens today, there would at least be some network willing to toss money at it. If Anthem/Fight Network bought Impact, someone would have taken the plunge with WCW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 Plus, one was a going-out-of business firesale, shop-soiled and damaged goods, to be stripped of its assets, vanquished and buried in a lead-lined box. The other is a going concern at the height of its powers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 Considering the numbers WCW had even at the very end, no cable network would throw them off the air in 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLB Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 Those are all valid points, it was awful timing for WCW to sell. I didn't know live event programming became so coveted in that span of time. JCP paid $4 million to Bill Watts for UWF in 1987. Tony Khan paid "less than $4 million" for ROH (we don't seem to have an official number on that). I recall Jericho saying if he knew how cheaply WCW would've sold for he would've made a bid for it. I'd think just the nWo trademarks are worth more than that now. What a sweetheart deal for VKM. The $9 billion sale is shocking and I can't help but marvel in comparison, it's a fantastic leap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 And Vince just bought the trademarks and tape library, basically in a liquidation sale. It's not like anyone was selling anything that was still running shows or had TV. Plus he didn't acquire any of the big contracts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr JMML Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 hour ago, MLB said: Those are all valid points, it was awful timing for WCW to sell. I didn't know live event programming became so coveted in that span of time. JCP paid $4 million to Bill Watts for UWF in 1987. Tony Khan paid "less than $4 million" for ROH (we don't seem to have an official number on that). I recall Jericho saying if he knew how cheaply WCW would've sold for he would've made a bid for it. I'd think just the nWo trademarks are worth more than that now. What a sweetheart deal for VKM. The $9 billion sale is shocking and I can't help but marvel in comparison, it's a fantastic leap. I still can't believe that ROH only sold for less than 4 million dollars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted May 25, 2023 Report Share Posted May 25, 2023 Isn't ROH's price tag related to Sinclair just not really caring about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted May 26, 2023 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2023 On 5/23/2023 at 1:39 PM, Robert S said: Considering the numbers WCW had even at the very end, no cable network would throw them off the air in 2023. It’s my understanding that TNT never got the kind of ratings again on Monday nights with original programming like they did with Nitro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 26, 2023 Report Share Posted May 26, 2023 11 hours ago, KawadaSmile said: Isn't ROH's price tag related to Sinclair just not really caring about it? ROH was a victim of Sinclair losing its ass when they bought the regional Fox Sports networks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted May 26, 2023 Report Share Posted May 26, 2023 8 hours ago, sek69 said: ROH was a victim of Sinclair losing its ass when they bought the regional Fox Sports networks Yeah, Sinclair was looking to eliminate the expense - that's one reason the price was so low. Also, similar to WCW, ROH was basically at its nadir and had no real TV slots if Sinclair wasn't getting it for free. Seems the only interested buyers were other wrestling promotions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted May 28, 2023 Report Share Posted May 28, 2023 On 5/25/2023 at 9:43 PM, flyonthewall2983 said: It’s my understanding that TNT never got the kind of ratings again on Monday nights with original programming like they did with Nitro. Ad buy rates are more important than ratings, and no companies wanted to advertise on WCW at the end. Besides like....Surge, probably Slim Jims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted May 28, 2023 Report Share Posted May 28, 2023 At one point in 1999, WCW was valued at $3 billion. And even as the the company was in freefall in the summer of 2000, AOL Time Warner turned down a $500 million purchase offer from SFX. It really is astonishing how rapidly and thoroughly the bottom fell out. In a way, calling Vince the greatest promoter of all time is damning him with faint praise considering how incompetent most of the others turned out to be. I think it's likely that if the WWF hadn't won the territory wars, pro wrestling in the US would have gone the way of roller derby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted May 28, 2023 Report Share Posted May 28, 2023 It wouldn't have been as big as it became without the WWF going national, but pro wrestling is one of those things that's always around in some form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted May 30, 2023 Report Share Posted May 30, 2023 On 5/20/2023 at 3:31 PM, Embrodak said: WWE entering the Byzantium era. As a huge Byzantine nerd, I popped for his. Waiting for the Holy Roman Empire spinoff, if Shane/Steph need to make a break for it lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted May 30, 2023 Report Share Posted May 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Superstar Sleeze said: As a huge Byzantine nerd, I popped for his. Waiting for the Holy Roman Empire spinoff, if Shane/Steph need to make a break for it lol I think the closest counterpart to the Holy Roman Empire in pro wrestling was the NWA. Either that or you find a three letter promotion where all three letters are wrong (as the Holy Roman Empire was, as the saying goes (apparently initially by Voltaire), neither holy nor Roman nor an empire). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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