The Thread Killer Talks Too Much: The Recaps

[sek69]

I must admit, I never realized Herd had such a background in the business, I always thought he was just a suit Turner brought in to run the rasslin'. 

Also it never fails to amaze me how it seems *everyone* in the Turner organization just hated pro wrestling except Ted himself. No wonder WCW was doomed once he was no longer in control. 

Doesn't it seem like one of the more underrated aspects of wrestling history is "Ted Turner buys a promotion known for blood and violence and immediately issues an edict of no more blood and violence"? That one act seemed to be the butterfly flapping its wings that set so many other things into motion. 

[Blehschmidt]

Thank You for recapping that. Seriously appreciate it.

Really a whole new perspective. Makes me hope that Conrad gets Flair and Herd together to mend fences.

[The Thread Killer]

6 hours ago, Blehschmidt said:

Thank You for recapping that. Seriously appreciate it.

Thanks, I am glad you enjoyed it.

I hope @Dooley, @MoS, @ButchReedMark, @Matt D, @clintthecrippler and @PeteF3 enjoyed it as well, since they all voted for it.  Hope the interview lived up to everybody's expectations.

So there is some news on the "Conversations with Conrad" front.  Conrad has announced that his next interview has been lined up for next month, and the guest will be none other than Jim Crockett. I assume everybody will be interested in reading a recap of that interview once it is released on Ad Free Shows?

As far as my next recap, I am kind of leaning toward "The Plane Ride From Hell" episode with Jim Ross.  A couple of people expressed interest in that one.  So I think I will tackle that next, unless anybody has any other requests before that?

[The Thread Killer]

19 hours ago, C.S. said:

Amazing, as usual, @The Thread Killer.

 

15 hours ago, Blehschmidt said:

Fantastic recap so far, and I have to say it is definitely a far contrast of the "Pizza Guy" image that has been presented by virtually everyone that worked in the company at the time.

Can't wait for part 2!!

Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback.

[The Thread Killer]

6 hours ago, sek69 said:

Doesn't it seem like one of the more underrated aspects of wrestling history is "Ted Turner buys a promotion known for blood and violence and immediately issues an edict of no more blood and violence"? That one act seemed to be the butterfly flapping its wings that set so many other things into motion. 

I agree. You know one other thing that has made me scratch my head?  What the HELL was Dusty Rhodes thinking when he booked that angle where The Road Warriors drove the spike into his eye?  He had supposedly been specifically told to NOT do anything like that, and it seems like he almost went out of his way to defy Ted Turner's orders, right after Turner had rescued the company from closing down when JCP basically went broke.  I have heard JR talk about that, and he has never really been able to shed any light on why Dusty would have done that, when he pretty much had to know it was going to result in a major backlash. I even had the RF Video Shoot Interview with The Road Warriors on VHS, and even they said they thought it was a stupid idea and was basically pointless.

[sek69]

Even at the time it was confusing, and all I can come up with now was it was Dusty just doing a "fuck you, you can't tell me what to do" move. It kind of makes sense when you think about it, he went from being allowed to do whatever he wanted to do with Crockett in charge to having a bunch of suits tell him no more blood and guts (lol) when that was about 90% of Dusty's act at that point. 

The Herd interview really underscores that Ric Flair has been a neurotic mess for longer than we realized. It really seems he worked himself into a shoot with Turner and Herd, he was so convinced everyone was out to get him he ended up turning them all against him. 

[Laz]

Awesome recap, TTK. Like everyone else, I've come away with a greater appreciation for Herd and the headaches he must have had.

[C.S.]

Herd pretty much nailed what a con man carny charlatan Jim Cornette was, is, and always has been, but I guess he got the wool pulled over his eyes by the "charms" of Paul Heyman. It does appear, though, that Herd let his dislike of Cornette cloud his judgment a little bit. Then again, Cornette wouldn't show up in the WWF for several more years, and the Midnights never did, so much gas was really left in that tank?

Viewing Arn and Tully as midcard acts sounds harsh to our Horsemen-loving ears, but was Herd really wrong at that point in time? Tully was always en route to self-destructing anyway.

Bottom line: WCW/Turner's corporate structure was a complete and utter mess. Not even Jesus could've saved it. Uncle Eric came the closest but eventually he was undone by the exact same issues.

54 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

As far as my next recap, I am kind of leaning toward "The Plane Ride From Hell" episode with Jim Ross.  A couple of people expressed interest in that one.  So I think I will tackle that next, unless anybody has any other requests before that?

I still want Arquette, but I can't argue with The Plane Ride from Hell being the next recap.

[MoS]

This was absolutely brilliant, TTK. You really da MVP

Also, no way does Herd not know who Steve Austin is. Bald headed dude my hairy asshole

[RazorbladeKiss87]

Thank you for doing this @The Thread Killer, I am really enjoying reading these. I would like to read the "Plane Ride from Hell" recap. I just read JR's second book the other day and he really breezed over the event. It got a chapter but the book is written like a James Patterson novel so a chapter might mean anywhere from 2-6 pages.

I'm guessing they didn't include Conrad's reveal of being Ric's son-in-law because I'd assume you would have recapped Herd's reaction. That must have been an interesting internal (and probably external with his producer) debate about when to drop that info. Did you ever get the sense Conrad was trying to push Herd to spill some vitriol during any of his answers? 

[sek69]

20 minutes ago, MoS said:

This was absolutely brilliant, TTK. You really da MVP

Also, no way does Herd not know who Steve Austin is. Bald headed dude my hairy asshole

It's possible, if he checked out of wrestling after his WCW stint he might not be that aware of Stone BAH GAWD Cold.

[MoS]

7 minutes ago, sek69 said:

It's possible, if he checked out of wrestling after his WCW stint he might not be that aware of Stone BAH GAWD Cold.

Steve Austin had started working in WCW before Herd was fired. Yes, he wasn't bald then but his transformation is hardly the same as All-American Scott Steiner becoming Big Poppa Pump. Plus, he said he watches wrestling whenever it's on TV these days, and he showed a lot of knowledge about a lot of wrestling personalities that only rose in prominence after he was kicked out. It's absolutely impossible that he doesn't know who Austin is. What, he has the WWE Network and/or watches wrestling on YouTube, thus coming across the Flair interview, but he doesn't know who the biggest draw in wrestling history is? I refuse to buy it

[Dooley]

Really interesting stuff there from Herd. Sounds like he was in the JR/Johnny Ace position where he was implementing the calls from the top, but got blamed for everything wrestlers didn't like.

Also interesting how most of the most outlandish stories/ideas attributed to Herd were BS.

Did he specify what time he was negotiating with Savage?

[The Thread Killer]

2 hours ago, MoS said:

Also, no way does Herd not know who Steve Austin is. Bald headed dude my hairy asshole

 

1 hour ago, MoS said:

Steve Austin had started working in WCW before Herd was fired. Yes, he wasn't bald then but his transformation is hardly the same as All-American Scott Steiner becoming Big Poppa Pump. Plus, he said he watches wrestling whenever it's on TV these days, and he showed a lot of knowledge about a lot of wrestling personalities that only rose in prominence after he was kicked out. It's absolutely impossible that he doesn't know who Austin is. What, he has the WWE Network and/or watches wrestling on YouTube, thus coming across the Flair interview, but he doesn't know who the biggest draw in wrestling history is? I refuse to buy it

After listening to the interview, I don't have much doubt that Herd legitimately didn't know who was interviewing Flair. 

Firstly, Conrad is just assuming that it was the interview Flair did with Austin, it's possible Flair could have been doing some other TV interview with somebody who was bald.  Plus, when Herd talked about seeing the interview with Flair you could tell he was trying to remember the name of the person who was doing the interview, but he just couldn't come up with the name at that moment. 

I don't know about in St. Louis, but here in Toronto they have shown "The Broken Skull Sessions" on our cable Sports Network.  I know WWE is letting some of the Sports Networks in North America show some of their previously Network exclusive stuff, since the Sports Networks are starved for original content due to the pandemic, and it works to WWE's advantage since it is basically a free preview for them of the WWE Network.

Herd didn't actually say he watches wrestling whenever it's on TV.  He said that he'll watch wrestling if it's on TV, but I think it's more like he'll watch it when he's channel surfing but he was pretty clear that he doesn't actively follow the product.  I got the impression that he still feels kind of betrayed by the entire business, even after all these years.

Bottom line is, the dude is 88 years old.  My Dad is 81, and he can tell me word for word about a conversation he had with one of his teachers when he was in High School, but then he'll tell me the same thing that happened today, three times in the same conversation.  Memory is a weird thing.  It didn't come across in the recap, but Conrad did a hell of a job keeping Herd on topic and kind of leading him through the interview.  Whenever Herd started to meander off topic, Conrad would kind of steer him back in the right direction.

[The Thread Killer]

1 hour ago, Dooley said:

Did he specify what time he was negotiating with Savage?

No, he didn't.  To be honest, I'm not sure he would have been able to remember.  Conrad kind of had to lead him through the timeline of the interview. Herd could remember big details of particular incidents but I got the general impression that he wasn't totally clear on dates and stuff like that.

2 hours ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

I'm guessing they didn't include Conrad's reveal of being Ric's son-in-law because I'd assume you would have recapped Herd's reaction. That must have been an interesting internal (and probably external with his producer) debate about when to drop that info. Did you ever get the sense Conrad was trying to push Herd to spill some vitriol during any of his answers? 

No, Conrad talked about this on an episode of "Ask Conrad Anything."  Conrad said that after the taped portion of the interview was over, Herd signed some memorabilia for him, and as he did that Conrad confessed to Herd that Ric Flair was his wife's Father.  Conrad said that Herd was surprised, but he didn't seem upset about it at all. 

The other thing Conrad talked about was how he was impressed about how highly Jim Herd spoke of Jim Ross during the interview.  Based on that, Conrad actually called JR on the phone while he was sitting there with Jim Herd, and he put JR on the phone to talk to Herd.  Conrad said that Herd was thrilled to talk to Jim Ross again after all these years and it was actually a touching scene to witness.

You have to keep in mind that although JR has taken his fair share of shots at Jim Herd over the years, he has never been anywhere near as mean spirited as people like Ric Flair or Jim Cornette.  JR has talked at length on his podcast about his relationship with Herd.  JR claims that he was the only person on the entire WCW Booking Team who actually lived in Atlanta, as did Jim Herd.  Consequently, when the work week was over, the other members of the Booking Committee would leave Atlanta and fly home, leaving just JR and Jim Herd in the offices.  JR has even said that he took a fair bit of shit from his coworkers about being friendly with Herd, but JR admits that he liked Herd as a person, especially when you got him away from the office and dealing with business.  JR says that he and Herd went out to dinner quite a few times, and I believe they may have done a bit of drinking together as well.

The only two things that Conrad really pressed him on was when you could tell Herd was trying to avoid discussing the details about why he cut Flair's contract, and also why he backed out of the deal he had with Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard. Other than that, the interview felt like more of a friendly conversation than anything. I have to give Conrad a lot of credit for how he handled that interview.  You could tell that he was walking a fine line, because he wanted to get Herd's version of a lot of the more controversial things that came up while he ran WCW, like the Flair contract dispute, Tully Blanchard's firing, Jim Cornette, El Gigante, Robocop, etc...but he didn't want to be an asshole about it.  Like I said, at this point Jim Herd kind of comes across as a kindly old man, hardly the blowhard he has been made out to be over the years.  And I don't doubt that Herd was a bit of a loudmouth when he ran WCW...he admitted as much in this interview.  But at this point, he just seems like a somewhat sad old man, telling stories.

 

[NintendoLogic]

Very cool interview. I knew that Herd worked for Muchnick at one point, but I had no idea he had ever worked for Vince the Elder.

10 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

I agree. You know one other thing that has made me scratch my head?  What the HELL was Dusty Rhodes thinking when he booked that angle where The Road Warriors drove the spike into his eye?  He had supposedly been specifically told to NOT do anything like that, and it seems like he almost went out of his way to defy Ted Turner's orders, right after Turner had rescued the company from closing down when JCP basically went broke.  I have heard JR talk about that, and he has never really been able to shed any light on why Dusty would have done that, when he pretty much had to know it was going to result in a major backlash. I even had the RF Video Shoot Interview with The Road Warriors on VHS, and even they said they thought it was a stupid idea and was basically pointless.

I'm sure he was just trying to get the Roadies over as heels. Nothing he had done up to that point could get the fans to boo them, so drastic measures had to be taken. Dusty had already been reprimanded by TBS for Cornette getting busted open by Paul E.'s mobile phone a couple of weeks previous, and he likely figured something similar would happen this time around. But Turner evidently felt that a simple warning wouldn't cut it given the graphic nature of the spike in the eye.

[Graham Crackers]

I can't stop laughing at the idea of them splitting up a giant candy bar and distributing it around the arena.

[C.S.]

4 hours ago, Graham Crackers said:

I can't stop laughing at the idea of them splitting up a giant candy bar and distributing it around the arena.

Doesn't sound very sanitary either.

[sek69]

6 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

Very cool interview. I knew that Herd worked for Muchnick at one point, but I had no idea he had ever worked for Vince the Elder.

I'm sure he was just trying to get the Roadies over as heels. Nothing he had done up to that point could get the fans to boo them, so drastic measures had to be taken. Dusty had already been reprimanded by TBS for Cornette getting busted open by Paul E.'s mobile phone a couple of weeks previous, and he likely figured something similar would happen this time around. But Turner evidently felt that a simple warning wouldn't cut it given the graphic nature of the spike in the eye.

I'm guessing Corny getting busted open could have been played off as accidental juice, since it's not like Jim was known for blading all over the place. Dusty taking a spike to the eye would not offer any such plausible deniability. 

[RazorbladeKiss87]

12 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

 

The only two things that Conrad really pressed him on was when you could tell Herd was trying to avoid discussing the details about why he cut Flair's contract, and also why he backed out of the deal he had with Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard. Other than that, the interview felt like more of a friendly conversation than anything

My biggest criticism of Conrad's style has always been the lack of follow up or pushing on subjects so this isn't super surprising. JR did speak highly of Herd in his first book (or at least as highly as I've ever really seen anyone in the business speak of him)

I have a question about content. In the early days, they advertised putting some of the live shows up and those were always pushed as events where the guys (mainly Bruce at this point) would tell stories they couldn't tell on the shows since they were things he didn't want recorded for posterity. It always seemed like for the only time in Internet history, people respected the request to not discuss the things said at these shows in recaps or even on Twitter. I don't know that I ever saw anyone do one. Did they ever put any of these up? I doubt that Bruce would let anything slip by that is too outrageous, considering his current position, but I still think those would be interesting. I heard tat eventually it just became a place for people to drink in public and hear Bruce do his voices but some of the earlier shows were said to be lots of fun. 

[sek69]

I still suspect pulling Tully's offer was more of a F you move than anything else. Getting upset at Tully popping for coke is like getting mad at Steve Austin having a high BAC. It's kind of the whole gimmick. I'd wager Turner as a company was probably done dealing with the Horsemen at that point and looked for any reason to back out of the deal.

[C.S.]

4 hours ago, sek69 said:

I still suspect pulling Tully's offer was more of a F you move than anything else. Getting upset at Tully popping for coke is like getting mad at Steve Austin having a high BAC. It's kind of the whole gimmick. I'd wager Turner as a company was probably done dealing with the Horsemen at that point and looked for any reason to back out of the deal.

Reading between the lines, it's clear Herd didn't like Arn and Tully and/or saw nothing special in them.

[Sweet Brown Koko]

Thanks for the recap! Amazing read!!

[The Thread Killer]

On 1/22/2021 at 3:33 PM, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

I have a question about content. In the early days, they advertised putting some of the live shows up and those were always pushed as events where the guys (mainly Bruce at this point) would tell stories they couldn't tell on the shows since they were things he didn't want recorded for posterity. It always seemed like for the only time in Internet history, people respected the request to not discuss the things said at these shows in recaps or even on Twitter. I don't know that I ever saw anyone do one. Did they ever put any of these up? I doubt that Bruce would let anything slip by that is too outrageous, considering his current position, but I still think those would be interesting. I heard tat eventually it just became a place for people to drink in public and hear Bruce do his voices but some of the earlier shows were said to be lots of fun. 

No, Ad Free Shows has never posted audio versions of any of the podcast Live Shows.  I think you're probably right, I would assume Bruce might have possibly said a few things during those shows back in the early days of Something To Wrestle which he most likely wouldn't like repeated at this point.  You could tell during the first year or two of that show he thought there was little chance of his ever going back to work for Vince, so he was a little bit more likely to say things somewhat negative or critical of WWE, although not much.

The whole idea of the hosts getting drunk and saying something controversial ended up being a "work" anyhow, as it turns out.  I guess during the shows, Bruce would always be supposedly chugging Miller Lite, with the whole supposed appeal that he might just slip up say something controversial...which you could only see if you bought a ticket to a Live Show.

So a couple of years ago around Wrestlemania, he ended up having Eric Bischoff as a guest at one of his STW Live Shows. Eric is a pretty legendary drinker, so he started matching Bruce, beer for beer.  Every time Bruce opened a beer, Eric would chug one.  Only problem is, Bruce wasn't really drinking...he was just pretending for the sake of the crowd. Bischoff only found that out after drinking a ton of beer, when he kicked over all of Bruce's supposed "empty" cans under the table, and found out they were still full.  The whole "Bruce might get drunk and say something he shouldn't" was pretty much just a gimmick to get people to come to the Live Shows. The funniest part was that right after the Live Show, Bruce, Eric and JBL had to go and film an episode of Table for 3 for the WWE Network and if you watch that episode...Eric is visibly drunk because he thought he was keeping up with Bruce...but nope!  Carnies gonna Carny, I guess.

To his credit, Conrad has pretty freely admitted all this on his "Ask Conrad Anything" podcast.  All those times you could hear Bruce popping open a can during an episode of STW, and saying "It's Miller Time" Conrad has since admitted that Bruce was actually drinking Coke Zero.  I think Prichard still drinks, but nowhere near as much as he pretended he does...especially after his two heart attacks.  Alcohol and heart medication do not mix well, I know this from personal experience.

Ad Free Shows consistently posts audio versions of the Live Shows and Panels from all the various Starrcast conventions, but they've never posted any other "live" content.  They have been going back through the back catalogue of Conrad's podcasts and are uploading them with the ads cut out, which is good.  Plus, they are uploading all of JR and Bruce's original podcasts, as well as both Ric Flair shows.  They are even going to be adding JR's old Radio Show from Altanta back in the 90's, apparently.

 

[The Thread Killer]

On 1/21/2021 at 3:22 AM, C.S. said:

I was always under the impression that Jim Herd was some schmuck who walked in from Pizza Hut with no prior experience, because WCW was gonna WCW, but that's not the case at all. This really feels like a radical re-evaluation of everything we know about Herd. He had some great ideas and wanted to make some big moves (such as signing Savage) but wasn't always successful because of locker room and Turner politics.

 

On 1/21/2021 at 6:35 AM, Blehschmidt said:

Fantastic recap so far, and I have to say it is definitely a far contrast of the "Pizza Guy" image that has been presented by virtually everyone that worked in the company at the time.

 

On 1/21/2021 at 12:42 PM, SirEdger said:

I'll echo the general sentiment that this interview completely depicts Jim Herd in a whole different light. He seemed filled with good intentions but a lot of stuff got in the way and ultimately, it fell apart.

 

On 1/21/2021 at 3:37 PM, sek69 said:

I must admit, I never realized Herd had such a background in the business, I always thought he was just a suit Turner brought in to run the rasslin'.

 

On 1/21/2021 at 3:49 PM, Blehschmidt said:

Really a whole new perspective. Makes me hope that Conrad gets Flair and Herd together to mend fences.

 

On 1/21/2021 at 10:49 PM, Laz said:

Like everyone else, I've come away with a greater appreciation for Herd and the headaches he must have had.

 

On 1/22/2021 at 12:28 AM, Dooley said:

Really interesting stuff there from Herd. Sounds like he was in the JR/Johnny Ace position where he was implementing the calls from the top, but got blamed for everything wrestlers didn't like. Also interesting how most of the most outlandish stories/ideas attributed to Herd were BS.

 

On 1/22/2021 at 8:52 AM, NintendoLogic said:

Very cool interview. I knew that Herd worked for Muchnick at one point, but I had no idea he had ever worked for Vince the Elder.

Like everybody else here, when I first listened to the interview with Jim Herd, there were quite a few things that almost jumped out at me.  I agree that the popular narrative has always been that Jim Herd was just some clueless putz that used to be the Vice President of Pizza Hut, that Ted Turner chose him to run WCW for some inexplicable reason.  That idea has largely been pushed by Jim Cornette and Ric Flair, and to a degree by Jim Ross.  On top of that, if you read "The Death of WCW" which for a lot of hardcore Pro Wrestling fans is kind of seen on the definitive word on the historically inept management of WCW...that book does not paint Jim Herd in a very flattering light at all.

Clearly, Jim Herd was a lot more qualified to run WCW than most people ever knew.  He had promoted shows for Vince Sr., and he was in charge of syndicating and promoting "Wrestling at the Chase."  It turns out he was actually one of the guys who first sold Ted Turner on broadcasting Pro Wrestling, before Turner even ran The Superstation.  So it makes sense Turner would hire him. On top of that, he was an experienced executive who could be expected to function well within the corporate environment at Turner Broadcasting.  So basically, I think the traditional narrative that Jim Herd was "not qualified" to run WCW is bullshit.

Secondly, I agree that Herd probably gets blamed for a lot of crap that in hindsight was clearly either not his fault, or was outside his scope of influence. It wasn't his decision to tone down the product or get rid of violence (although he clearly agreed with the decision) and it wasn't his idea to try and cater the product more to kids (although once again, he was obviously all for the idea.) It wasn't his decision to force out Dusty Rhodes and Jim Crockett, and basically alienate a lot of the older fans of JCP. And it sounds like a good many of the stupid things that happened while Herd was in charge may not have been his idea. Like Robocop, or even El Gigante possibly.

Jim Herd obviously did a lot of things right when he ran WCW, stuff he probably doesn't get credit for.  As much as I love old school "studio wrestling" it was probably a smart idea to move out of the Techwood Studios and into arenas when they taped Television.  It was a good idea to introduce better sets, lighting and pyrotechnics.  Herd does deserve credit for signing Ricky Steamboat and helping present the Flair/Steamboat Trilogy and Flair/Funk feud in 89.  Jim Herd was one of the first guys I've ever heard of who actually did Market Research for Pro Wrestling, which from a business standpoint is smart.

Having said all that...I still think Herd deserves to take a lot of shit for some of the decisions he made when he ran WCW.

Herd promoted shows for Vince McMahon Sr., and he promoted shows for Sam Muchnick.  He promoted them, but he never booked them.  He wasn't a booker and he clearly was not a very creative person when it came to Pro Wrestling.  Jim Herd had no business getting actively involved in the creative process in WCW.  And it's pretty much unanimous from anybody who was ever on the WCW Booking Committee, Jim Herd was always interfering in the booking of WCW when he was in charge. He was hired to oversee the creative process, and I don't even blame him for wanting to get away from the "one booker" system and implement a Booking Committee.  I don't have an issue with the Committee having to run all their storylines and angles past Herd, especially after what happened with Dusty and the spike.  But I don't think Ted Turner or Jack Petrik insisted that Jim Herd get actively involved in the creative process, I think he took that upon himself.  Jim Ross has said as much.  I think history would probably look a lot more kindly on Jim Herd if he would have just left the booking to the Booking Committee.

The Candyman was Jim Herd's idea.  The Ding Dongs were Jim Herd's idea.  And you saw yourself in this interview...he pitched the idea of "The Zodiac Man" and he still sounded quite proud of the idea when he talked about it, almost 30 years later. There's no way around it...these were mindbogglingly stupid ideas.  People still mock Herd for The Ding Dongs, and rightfully so.  I know he wanted to appeal to little kids, and I know with The Candyman and The Ding Dongs the whole idea was to sell merchandise...but come on.

I will give Herd a pass on the whole "Spartacus" thing.  I don't believe he ever seriously wanted Ric Flair to become Spartacus.  I think people on the Booking Committee were worried that he did really want to do that, after they saw some of Herd's other genius ideas...but I think that was probably just as a joke that got out, but was repeated as a fact.  I think @sek69 is right, I think by this point Ric Flair was so paranoid that he believed every rumor.  I'm even willing to believe that Flair might have thought Luger was making equal or more money than he was, when it wasn't the case. I'll give Herd that much.

Having worked with Sam Muchnick, Jim Herd clearly saw and enjoyed good solid Pro Wrestling matches and he said that several times during the interview with Conrad...that he wanted good, competitive matches.  He wanted good, competitive matches...but he didn't see anything in The Midnight Express, who for my money are one of the greatest Tag Teams not just in WCW history, but of all time.  He saw Tully Blanchard and Arn Anderson as "midcard" talent at best.

I totally get Jim Herd not liking Jim Cornette.  But there is another side to that story.  At one point, Herd kept telling Cornette that one of the main reasons he wasn't doing more with The Midnight Express is because he thought their act was old and needed freshening up. Herd said as much during this interview. And Cornette knew that Herd hated him, and he was worried that Stan Lane and Bobby Eaton were basically being punished because Herd hated him.  Cornette didn't want his friends suffering because of his own big mouth.

Jim Herd wanted Cornette on the Booking Committee, and as a Color Commentator.  He actually apparently offered Cornette more money to do those things than he had offered him as a talent.  So Cornette actually backed down.  Cornette met with the Booking Committee, and Jim Herd.  Cornette agreed that they would run an injury angle, and he would retire from managing.  Then, the plan was to reform the Four Horsemen as a unit with Ric Flair, Arn Anderson, Stan Lane and Bobby Eaton.  Herd would get what he wanted...no more Cornette on TV and a new role for The Midnight Express, and The Midnight Express would get a new contract and more money, plus be involved in a key role, obviously.  Everybody agreed.

And then at the last minute, for no stated reason...Herd changed his mind and killed the deal.

Then let's look at what Jim Herd did to Arn Anderson.  Arn and Tully wanted out of their WWF contract because the travel was insane and they felt Vince McMahon wasn't living up to what he had promised them financially. (Arn and Tully both discussed this recently when Tully was a guest on Arn's podcast.)  Tully reached out to Jim Herd and made the deal for Arn and Tully to return to WCW for a decent salary...but the key selling point was much less travel.  Arn had a young son at the time, and he wanted to be able to spend more time with his family. So they gave their notice, and then Tully flunked the drug test.

I don't have a problem with Jack Petrik pulling Tully Blanchard's contract due to the drug test failure.  Jim Ross, Arn Anderson, Jim Cornette, Ric Flair and Tully himself have all claimed that Tully went to Herd and offered to go to rehab or do whatever he had to do in order to earn the spot back, and it was Herd who said no.  If he was doing that at Jack Petrik's order, we'll never know.  But Herd's decision to dramatically cut Arn Anderson's contract by almost two-thirds and tell him that without Tully Blanchard he wasn't worth as much...that's just plain old bullshit.

Arn Anderson has gone on record saying that if he had known that was going to happen, he never would have left the WWF.  Arn has said that everybody in the WWF was extremely positive with him when he finished out his WWF dates teaming with Haku instead of Tully, and there were apparently some inferences made to him that if he wanted to stay and keep teaming with Haku, that would have worked out.  But Arn left because he had a deal with Jim Herd, and Herd welched on the deal.  The guy had a family to take care of, and Jim Herd basically fucked him on the deal...and then told him that if it was a problem he should go and ask Vince McMahon for his job back.

During the interview with Conrad, even after all this time...Herd went to great lengths to try and dance around the fact that he had financial discretion when it came to contracts. Herd had a mandate from Turner via Petrik to keep expenses under control, sure...but Jim Herd had full discretion when it came to the amount talents would be paid.  He didn't have to do that to Arn Anderson, he just did it because he could.  It's possible he did it just to screw with Ric Flair.

Bottom line is,  Jim Herd is a guy who claims he was interested in promoting good Pro Wrestling matches, but he didn't see the value in The Midnight Express and Arn and Tully...so basically fuck that guy.  And that's not even getting into his relationship with Ric Flair.  Most hardcore fans agree that 1989 was the best year of Flair's career.  Herd was right there for that, but he still seemed to enjoy fucking with Flair for no real reason I can see.  And I'm sorry...I just don't buy the whole "Flair didn't want to lose" story from Herd.  Flair has said repeatedly that he didn't want to lose to Luger, but he had no issue putting Sting over.  Herd tried to paint Flair in this interview as one of those guys who wouldn't do jobs, and I don't think history bears that out.  You can say what you want about Ric Flair, but he never seemed to have a problem losing to a lot of different guys, on a lot of different occasions.  I think Flair just didn't trust Jim Herd being involved with booking, and based on the evidence...can you blame him?

Trust me, after I listened to this interview a couple of times I ended up feeling sorry for the sad, feeble old man who doesn't have any friends after all those years in Pro Wrestling.  And I do feel bad that guys like Cornette and Flair (and a lot of other people) have basically had a field day bashing the guy for the past 30 years and blaming all the ills of WCW solely on him. But even Herd admitted during this interview that he was a loudmouth, and there is plenty of evidence that he was a bit of a stubborn asshole when he ran WCW. He may not have been as big of an asshole as we've been led to believe, and he might not have been responsible for all the asshole decisions we've been told he was...but he was still an asshole.