The Thread Killer Talks Too Much: The Recaps

[NintendoLogic]

I've seen more examples than I can count of a guy in a shoot or whatever trying to put someone over as a great guy while making him sound like a psychopath or at least a deviant who would be unemployable in the real world. Buzz Sawyer must have been a real piece of shit because I don't think I've ever heard anyone say a kind word about him. It takes some talent for a wrestler to be too much of an asshole for other wrestlers to stand.

[Al]

Mick Foley in his first autobiography relates a quick note from the Undertaker, that Sawyer took Taker's money for training and skipped town. 

[funkdoc]

On 2/2/2021 at 4:34 AM, NintendoLogic said:

I've seen more examples than I can count of a guy in a shoot or whatever trying to put someone over as a great guy while making him sound like a psychopath or at least a deviant who would be unemployable in the real world. Buzz Sawyer must have been a real piece of shit because I don't think I've ever heard anyone say a kind word about him. It takes some talent for a wrestler to be too much of an asshole for other wrestlers to stand.

Yeah, i've thought for a while about who's most widely despised in the business according to shoot interviews.  Warrior & Russo would be the most obvious picks for most, i reckon, then you have Moolah.  Sawyer is kind of a dark horse but i get the same impression as you there.

[MoS]

11 hours ago, Al said:

Mick Foley in his first autobiography relates a quick note from the Undertaker, that Sawyer took Taker's money for training and skipped town. 

Taker confirmed and talked about it in detail on the Austin podcast

[CarpetCrawler]

6 hours ago, funkdoc said:

Yeah, i've thought for a while about who's most widely despised in the business according to shoot interviews.  Warrior & Russo would be the most obvious picks for most, i reckon, then you have Moolah.  Sawyer is kind of a dark horse but i get the same impression as you there.

Ole Anderson and Manny Fernandez are up there too.  Have rarely heard a nice word about them.  Even when Cornette talks about Ole and how he loves how miserable he was he always recounts how he was always happy to spit Ole's venom right back at him to go and stick it to him.

[Blehschmidt]

You don't hear too many kind words about Jay Strongbow either.

[Cowboy Hats 4.0]

Add another voice (me) to the chorus of those thanking Da Thread Killer and appreciative of his ridiculous efforts here. I've had this post open in a tab for much of the last few weeks as I casually caught up. Thanks, TTK, and as many have already said, please don't feel an obligation to do this and if/when it becomes a burden, hopefully you know what to do.

[The Thread Killer]

Ad Free Shows Exclusive
83 Weeks Bonus Episode
“Eric Fires Back”
June 29, 2020

 

- Conrad Thompson welcomes us to an exclusive bonus edition of “83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff.”

- Conrad says it's probably no surprise to Eric Bischoff that quite a few former WCW performers have “taken a payday” to sit in front of a camera and “shit on him” in what is known as a Shoot Interview.

- Now Eric Bischoff is going to have a chance to listen to what different people have said about him, but Eric will be able to respond in an episode Conrad is calling “Eric Fires Back.”

- Conrad asks Eric: When you first heard about the rise of this concept, of guys just shitting on each other on a videocassette through RF Video and it was being framed as a “Shoot Interview” what did you think?

- Eric says: “Disappointed I think is probably the first thing that comes to my mind. I think most of the Shoot Interviews that I saw early on were a joke. They were really just a platform for talent that wasn't associated with a wrestling company, that really didn't have any relevance in the industry anymore, to get out and rewrite their own personal history or air personal issues. Most of them sounded like really bad wrestling promos.”

- Eric says that the most frustrating thing was when he saw people talking about WCW, when it was clear they didn’t have an actual understanding of the inner workings of WCW.

- Eric says: “So many of the interviews and I saw and heard were from people talking about things that they had no idea what they were talking about. Let's put this in context. 99.9% percent of the talent...I would say probably 100% percent but I'm leaving a margin for error there...99% of the talent in WCW had no idea how WCW operated from a corporate point of view. They had no idea where the problems were, or who was really causing the problems they were complaining about. They had no idea who people like Vicki Miller, or Terry Orchard or Scott Sasso were. They possibly knew the names, particularly someone like Scott Sasso because he was corporately pretty high profile internally, but so many of the people that were instrumental in actually pulling the strings for WCW or were trying to undermine WCW from a corporate point of view...you know Harry Anderson is another name that comes to mind.

Let’s use Chris Jericho as an example. I don't mean to single Chris Jericho out, but he’s an example of someone who did a lot of talking about some of the dysfunction in WCW from an internal point of view as the recipient..but yet Chris had no idea who how or why these conditions existed. But people like Chris spoke as if they had really strong insight as to how WCW was working. I think Chris Jericho comes to mind simply because there was an incident where he got a merchandise check, it was like completely off the wall and nobody had any answers for him. And he was absolutely correct, and he was telling the truth...and I understand from a talent’s point of view how frustrating that would be, and how you would almost find humor in it, if it didn't affect your money. But experiencing the problems that existed internally in WCW is a far different conversation than a discussion as to how or why or who was responsible for some of those things.

I think in all of the conversations that I've heard...most of the Shoot Interviews I heard, I heard so many people talking about the business side of WCW who have no fucking clue. 90% of the talent never even interfaced with anybody within corporate structure of the Turner Organization unless they happened to be at a television taping. So perceptions of what was going right, and what was going wrong, and who's responsible for how decisions made, were completely unfounded. At its core most of the conversations that I heard were people talking about things that they knew nothing about, and then weaving their own personal opinions and inventing things and trying to keep themselves relevant by doing a good wrestling promo and that's what most of those Shoot Interviews are to me.

I don't watch all of them. I sampled a few of them and usually I can only get through 5 minutes before my head starts to explode...which doesn't forecast well for what this episode is going to end up being like. But I'm going to do my best not to let my head explode, or to overreact and not go off on rants and not get too pissed off.  I've been preparing myself mentally for this show much like I would prepare myself for an IRS audit. I just have to be in the right frame of mind. Hopefully it won't require therapy or excessive amounts of Jameson. I don't know, we're gonna give it a try. I'm excited that we're taking a stab at this. Conrad, you and I were joking off air that so many people dislike me, we can probably do one of these every month.”

- Conrad says he is very excited about this idea and has selected a few different clips to listen to. Conrad says he wants try to hit “a little bit of everybody.”

- Conrad says that up first “we're going to go to the guy who probably has had the most legendary Shoot Interviews of all time...Jim Cornette.”

- Conrad says this clip is going to be from an interview conducted by Sean Oliver at Kayfabe Commentaries. Conrad says he knows Eric has actually done some work with Sean Oliver before, and everybody pretty much agrees that Sean Oliver is the best in the business when it comes to Shoot Interviews.

- Eric agrees and says that the reason he liked Sean Oliver and the reason Eric himself agreed to do an interview with him, is that Sean doesn't really have an agenda, and comes at the process from a pretty balanced perspective.

- Eric says having said all that, Sean Oliver is a businessman and he was does these interviews to to make money and clearly the more controversial, bombastic and ridiculous these interviews were, the better for Sean and the more money he made.

- Eric diverts for a moment and says the actual term “Shoot Interview” kind of “pisses him off” because you're kind of you're implying that you’re exposing the inner workings of Pro Wrestling and by calling something a “Shoot” you're characterizing it as real and honest and “out of character” and in the case of Jim Cornette it's not out of character.

- Eric Bischoff says he thinks Jim Cornette isn’t playing a character, so there is no unique perspective to be had from Jim Cornette.  Eric says it's not like we are only used to hearing Jim as a “character” that is 180 degrees from the real life person. Eric says Jim Cornette doesn't change whether he's out in front of a camera, or whether he's spouting off on social media.

- Eric agrees that Jim Cornette is a great candidate a Shoot Interview because he is one of the more articulate and entertaining people out there. Eric says he often gets a kick out a listening to Jim's rants, not that he agrees with any of them...but just because sometimes they're so absurd, but they flow so well that they're entertaining.

- Conrad says: “Well listen up...first is Jim Cornette describing the first time he met Eric Bischoff or at least had a conversation with him, and it wasn't exactly pleasant memories from his side of things.”

- Conrad says in this clip, Jim Cornette is discussing his plans to come back to WCW in early 1993 and do an “invasion angle” when Smoky Mountain Wrestling “invaded” WCW. The plan had been agreed upon by Jim Cornette as the booker for Smoky Mountain, and Bill Watts who was in charge of WCW at the time.

Jim Cornette Audio Clip

“It on TV, but it was edited...that was actually the one thing that led to Bill Watts leaving. He called me to say I'm going home, because he was supposed to have full control. It was edited. They bleeped the audio of me talking about how bad I hated Jim Herd and I hated the company and how they screwed us around.

And they neutered the angle. And they lied to Bill Watts and said the directional microphones didn't pick it up. And I said no...they've gone in post-production and taken the audio out. And I told him that and he was investigating it, and then that’s when all the other shit blew up, and he was about to go home.

So my little birds told me well. Eric Bischoff is down in TV production he's the one who made that call. So Bischoff walks into the locker room and we’d never met and I said:

“Eric, somebody buried you to me...would you like a rebuttal?”

He said: “What do you mean?”

I said: “Somebody told me you were responsible for editing the angle we did on TV.”

“Well you know we we took something, that we thought that it was a kind of knocking in the company and it was kind of strong.”

I said: “That’s what it was supposed to be, nimrod. We were trying to make it a shoot, we were trying to make people believe that we were really mad, because that's kind of thing that sells tickets. I already cleared everything I was gonna say with Bill Watts, the horse's head. I didn't know that I needed to clear things with the horse's ass. But you don't need to worry about that...because now that Bill Watts is gone we're out of here too, because I don't trust any of you motherfuckers. I never would have come back here except for him anyway, so this is the last time you're gonna see me...so good day to you, sir.”

And I walked off, and left the little prick. Hi Eric. Fuck you. You bitch. You whiny little bitch.”

Eric Bischoff Responds

“I'm so glad you picked this one first. This is so much fun. Jim said a lot there.  I hate to use the term “unpack” because it’s overused, but let's take that, let's break it down kind of one comment at a time, if we can.

Number one...he suggested that Bill Watts left WCW of his own volition because he didn't have as much control as Bill Watts wanted to have. We know that's not true. Starting out, the very opening statement is complete fabricated nonsense. It's bullshit. So when when you start an interview out...this is supposed to be a Shoot Interview, which is the truth or the inside, or the unvarnished, unfiltered facts and truth about the situation. And in this case Jim Cornette has a lot more in common with Vince Russo than he cares to believe, in terms of believing his own bullshit. He is telling you a story that is fundamentally provable and in the end it and it is well documented as a lie. The very premise of his opening statement is a complete, fucking lie. That's number one.

Number two...the incident that he described in such detail about first meeting me in a locker room? Never happened. If Jim Cornette had said something like that to me, my response would have been legendary. Not saying I would have gotten physical, but I would have pushed back verbally to the point where I would be hoping that he would throw a punch, or do something physical would which would have given me the ability to at least argue that I was defending myself. I would have enjoyed every moment of that. This isn't Eric thinks he's a tough guy, bullshit stuff I've said before. That's so far in my rear view mirror I can't even see it anymore. However in that moment, at that time in the early nineties...dealing with a guy like Jim Cornette would not have been anything more than recreational for me at that point. It never happened. It never freaking happened and that’s what I like about this.

I ask you, if you saw the episode of “Table for 3” I did with Jim Cornette and Michael Hayes on the WWE Network? I don’t know if this part of the discussion made the air, and was included in the episode that was shown on the WWE Network, but Jim you know, reached into his bag of tricks...stories that he's told that he feels get a response or put himself over or whatever his agenda is. I really encourage people to go back to the WWE Network and watch it for themselves and look at the look at Jim's face when Michael Hayes says:

“But wait a minute Jim...all these things you're describing, you’re saying about Eric editing out something that you and Bill Watts agreed to...Eric wasn't in charge then.”

And I wasn’t. I didn't have the ability to change a television show then, so what Michael was saying was very true and 100% accurate. I'm not even sure what decision was ever made by the way, you know this big Smoky Mountain Invasion. I'm not saying none of it is true. There may have been the discussion, there may have been an attempt to book this between Bill Watts and Jim. I don't know. I was so far outside of the booking decisions and creative decisions and any decisions that were being made in WCW when Bill Watts was in charge that it could very well be they could have had a conversation.

But my point is, my ability to walk into an edit bay and say “I don't think we want to do that” was so far outside of my scope of responsibilities, it's fucking laughable. I think it exposes Jim for what a carny fraud he really is. And he is. He is a carnival fucking fraud. And this is a perfect example of it.

I'm gonna go back to the “Table for 3” episode. So as we're sitting there, I'm listening and you know Jim and I shook hands before and we agreed we're going to do this, and you know I was looking forward to it because I really haven't had any interactions with Jim Cornette, face to face. The truth of the story is, the only time that I was in physical proximity to Jim Cornette while he was associated in any way with WCW was very early on. I think it might have been in Chattanooga, shortly after I got there. Jim was sitting in a chair as I was walking by, and I think we both nodded to each other...and that was it. That was the only time I was in the physical presence at all of Jim Cornette. And so his description of the conversation, and the shit that he said to me is just him blowing himself.  

It's just bullshit. I had zero influence over what went on creatively in television after Bill Watts left. I didn't even get the job as Executive Producer until quite a while after Watts left...and in my scope of responsibilities as an Executive Producer, I can decide where we were going to shoot, I could decide the format of the show, meaning the structure of it. Not the content of it. The structure of it..how we open the show, how we close the show, if we're gonna use bumpers, new graphics, not new graphics...that type of thing. The technical aspects of television I had complete control over. Not the content of the show. Not what went in the show. Not the wrestling matches. I had no ability to hire and fire, I had no influence on creative. Nobody even asked my opinion about creative!  That wasn’t my role yet. That changed over time certainly, when I was promoted from Executive Producer of TV to Vice President in 1994, obviously afterwards. But at the time, the specific time frame that Jim Cornette claims, during that period of time I had absolutely no control.

He really is he really is a weak minded individual and you can always tell when guys talk like that. You know Conrad, you and I had an incident about a year ago where I said something about Jim Cornette that he took huge offense to. He started threatening me, was gonna beat my ass with a baseball bat. You called me and told me. What was it...he gave me two choices, either I had to apologize to him or he was going to attack me with a bat. One of these days, somebody's going to call that punk ass little bitch out, and just beat his ass.  He's a gutless little punk that tries to intimidate and bully people. Well what you really are, is a gutless little punk that tries to intimidate people so you don't really have to confront anything. Probably works with the “little birds” that Jim and his wife like to hang out with in the hot tub. I'm sure those those people love to feed Jim information to kind of stay in the universe of the Jim Cornette cocoon, but it was all such absolute horseshit and provable fiction. It's more funny than anything.”

Conrad says: “I don't know if I regret this yet...but let's keep going. What’s next is the best there was, the best there is, and the best there ever will be. Bret Hart says Eric Bischoff killed Professional Wrestling...so let’s take a listen.

Bret Hart Audio Clip

“They were so bad. They’d kill hope in anybody. They’d destroy anybody. I don't have a good thing to say about Eric Bischoff, for anything he ever did. The guy with the midas touch? He was the opposite, he could kill your career. He was too stupid to know what a career was. You have a passion for your matches? You have a genius for wrestling talent? Didn't mean anything to Eric Bischoff. He was the worst loser, maggot that ever got into wrestling, he was just the worst...I have nothing he good to say about him.

He’s a nice enough guy, but he was he was just the worst. I feel so bad because I went to WCW really wanting to make a difference, and I think if you look at WCW and all the names that they had, and all the wrestlers and all the other things they had...everything. All they needed was somebody that knew what to do, like someone with half a brain.

Eric Bischoff...I've heard his quote which is probably why I get pretty hostile towards Eric Bischoff. He said “Bret Hart came here, he was like a broken toy, he didn't have the same fire.”

I could strangle him when I hear him say that, because that is so not true. I was on fire, I wanted to take the world on. I wanted to take that whole company over and kick Vince right in the teeth and have the best matches. Give me Booker T. Give me Benoit. Give me Sting. Give me Hogan. Give me all these guys and we’ll get this thing really rocking here.

And he was such an idiot, I mean, I would say all that right to him if he was sitting here. You are an idiot and you cost everybody. Look at Wrestling today. It's a monopoly, so the wrestlers themselves have no leverage of any kind...like “If you don't pay me I'm gonna go to WCW.” Like the old days, that was so much better for the wrestlers because then we had a bargaining table. But not today, and that’s all Eric Bischoff’s fault. He killed the Pro Wrestling business.  He’s the worst.”

- Conrad Thompson says that clip is courtesy of Sam Roberts and his great “Not Sam” podcast.

- Conrad says: “I can't wait to hear what you have to say about Bret. I think a couple years ago in the U. K. you guys sort kissed and made up? Then we hear something like this floating around...that's gotta sting a little bit?

Eric Bischoff Responds

"It really doesn't. It doesn't, and I think anybody that's a Bret Hart fan, you're gonna believe every word. You're going to agree with his point of view. If you’re a hardcore Bret Hart fan, you're probably not going to think, or listen objectively to those comments...and that's okay. That’s just life right? It doesn't make me mad at all.

I think anybody that is objective...which is hard to do in wrestling because by design, it's a devise kind of form of entertainment and people thrive on that divisiveness, which is why things like Shoot Interviews have a niche in the marketplace...but if you listen to Bret Hart's interviews over the years? Bret always has to have someone to hate. He has to have someone to blame. He has to have someone...whether it's me, whether it's Hulk Hogan, whether it’s Bill Goldberg, whether it’s Vince McMahon, whether it's Shawn Michaels, whether it's Ric Flair...it doesn't matter.

It's just...who does he have heat with today? Who can he go out and have these kind of interviews, that make him feel above it all, and that it's everybody else's responsibility. Everything is everybody else's fault. Nothing that went wrong with Bret Hart's career...including in the WWF...has anything to do with him. It was Vince’s fault. It was Shawn Michaels. It was Hulk Hogan. He's always blaming somebody else.

There is a big hole in the soul of Bret Hart, that he's trying to fill with hate and blame. In the end it doesn't make me angry. It doesn't make me mad. It makes me sad for Bret Hart, because I can't imagine walking around with all of that contempt and anger and resentment in in my mind. I couldn't imagine carrying that around. It must be very dark most of the time to be Bret Hart. It must be a cloudy day in his universe, almost every day if you're walking around with that.

If you look at Bret Hart, here’s a guy who had absolutely zero knowledge of how WCW was structured, of how it operated, of what the business challenges were. Zero. The guy would show up looking like he hadn’t slept in three days, looking like a wet afghan. He’d mope around...and this was right from in the beginning! He didn’t come in full of fire.  He didn’t say “Hey give me this guy, give me that guy.” I do believe that when Bret first made the move to come to WCW, I believe him when he says he wanted revenge and he wanted to teach Vince McMahon a lesson. But I mean...he was like the walking dead. Whenever you would see a Bret, he was expressionless. He didn't engage, he didn't assert himself.

One of the criticisms you'll often hear about me...and I think to a degree it's true, is that I was too influenced by the talent in WCW. That's a valid criticism, by the way. I don't deny that. I was learning on the job. I talked to as many people as I could possibly talk to, I listened to ideas from a lot of different people, and I was influenced by ideas from a lot of the talent, as I was kind of traversing this this arc of becoming more and more involved in the creative side of the business, which I had no experience in up until around 1995. I had no confidence in myself until probably well into 1996, before I started feeling like I really deserved to be even at that table. And as a result of kind of learning on the job, yeah I did talk to a lot of different talent and take suggestions for angles and stories and matches..but guess who wasn't one of those people? Bret Hart.

Bret Hart never spoke up. He never came to me with ideas. He never tried to change or improve or add things like Hulk Hogan or Scott Hall or Bill Goldberg or even Chris Jericho. A lot of top talent would come and say: “I know you want to do this...but what if we do it this way?” He was never one of those guys. He would find out what he was supposed to do that day, he would mope around for a little while or he would disappear. He would show up half an hour before show time, instead of when he was supposed to be there. His heart wasn't in it.

And I'm not critical of him. I understand it. Bret went through a lot. He really saw himself is this massive Canadian hero, and he really believed it. He probably still does, in his own mind. He actually believes he let down an entire country because what happened in Montreal. I mean it affected him to the point I'm not even sure it was healthy. I'm pretty sure it wasn't. But he was a shell of his former self and although I do believe him when he says he wanted to kick Vince McMahon’s ass, that's not necessarily a productive way of doing things. That was just a feeling that he had, but he didn't act on those feelings.

I went to him, and I said: “I’m going to do this thing with Larry Zbyszko and I want you to be the referee, because given what happened to you at Montreal, if there's ever anybody that's going to be a referee that's going to call it down the middle it would be Bret Hart.”

We weren't ready yet to introduce him yet into a story line because he was injured.  And I’m not saying that was a good idea. It wasn’t. It was a bad idea...I'll stipulate that right off the bat, your honor. However Bret never said he didn’t like the idea.  He never said I have a better idea..let's do this instead. He didn't express any ownership over his own creative.  He never expressed any ownership and he certainly never expressed any responsibility. As a professional, and as a performer, and as a human being Bret’s first tendency is to lash out at somebody. He's got to have someone to hate, or he doesn't know how to start his day. And that's just unfortunate.

As far as the moment when Bret and I “kissed and made up” as you put it? We just kind of crossed paths, but it was intentional on my part. I waited for him to get away from the group, because we were sitting at a table and Bret was one chair away from me. We were sitting at the table, everybody was having cocktails and the mood was very good, everybody talking about the old times and having a blast, and you know there was no negativity at all, none whatsoever. Everybody was in a very festive mood. It was a group of guys getting together and having a couple beers.  It was early in the evening, and Bret got up to use the restroom. And I felt like...you know there's an elephant in the room. It's awkward for both of us, so I decided I'm going to try and make an attempt. He was with his grandson. I said I'm not gonna get up and leave but I will make an attempt to at least make it more comfortable for everybody.

So I went to him and I said: “Bret, I’ve heard all the things you said about me. You know, you do whatever you want to do but going forward, publicly I'm just not gonna take the low road with you. I'm just not.”

I guess maybe to a degree I'm probably going back at that right now. I don't mean to. I don't know Bret Hart real well, and I don't know him at all as a human being. All I know was the experiences I've had with him, and we did have some very deep, very personal conversations especially following the death of his of his brother.  So maybe I feel like I know him a little bit. I think Bret’s intentions are really good and I think he he is a good human being. He certainly was from a technical perspective...not from a character perspective but from a technical perspective...one of the best ever that's performed in the last 40 years, and I respect the hell out of him for that.

But I don't respect the tendency to blame everybody else, and take no responsibility for the shortcomings in your life, or your career. Most people that listen to Bret's interviews feel the same...you know he's very bitter. But I understand he’s making this change now. I know he's got a new social media platform, where he’s gonna talk about his life, and his childhood and whatever else he's going to talk about.

I hope for him it works out, like it did for me. Much like doing this show with you, Conrad. For me you know, in the beginning doing 83 Weeks and going back and revisiting all this stuff and listening to what Dave Meltzer said about me...it was hard for me the first few months. Once I put it all into context, it became a cathartic experience for me...meaning the more I talked about it, the more I went through everything and acknowledged my own shortcomings and my own mistakes, and for lack of a better word I actually had fun with it? All of the sudden it took a whole different meaning for me, and now there's very few things that I enjoy more on a personal level as much as I enjoy looking back at WCW with you on 83 Weeks. Even when it involves some dumb shit that I've done. But being able to take responsibility for your own shit is an important part of growing. I hope that Bret is there.

Part of me really likes Bret. I do. I miss Bret Hart. Bret and I had a lot in common. I love the history of the Old American West. I love Native American history. I still do to this day. One of my favorite books of all time is “Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee.” It is a big book, it’s an extensive history and I probably read that book no fewer than ten times over the last few years. I'll probably read it again over the course of the next year. And Bret had a lot of the exact same interests. And he sent me that book, about the history of the west...with a nice inscription on it. Not only that...as a gift he gave me a lever action model 1894 Winchester that is in absolute mint condition. The serial numbers on it identified it as a rifle that had been made in the 1890’s and it belonged to a local sheriff in California. There was history to it, and he sent me that because he knew I loved the history of the Old West like he does. I miss that Bret Hart. Because that Bret Hart is a really enjoyable person to be around.

But as soon as you get into the conversations about his career, and how he was wronged and “I was screwed by this guy and that guy screwed me?” It gets kind of uncomfortable...at least for me. But I still like Bret. I know people might not think so after hearing this but I gotta be honest about this stuff. I can't sugarcoat the response when when responding to something like what I just heard Bret Hart say about me, and what he called me. But I do like Bret. And I wish him the best. And more than anything, I hope he’s happy...I want him to find happiness, in whatever he does."

~End of First Half~

Next time: Eric Fires Back at Mike Graham

[The Thread Killer]

On 1/29/2021 at 2:02 PM, TheDuke said:

Thank you for summarizing this. This interview was awesome.

 

On 1/31/2021 at 5:22 PM, C.S. said:

Another amazing recap, Thread Killer. Glad I was able to read about it instead of having to live it. 

 

On 2/1/2021 at 6:50 AM, Big Pete said:

I don't have much to contribute other than to say I really enjoy these recaps and even when I've listened to something that's been covered it's been nice to go over it again and pick up things that may have eluded me the first time. What I like specifically about your style TK is that you really capture the tone of what's being said. It's so easy to take a Cornette or a Bischoff out of context and go 'oh how horrible' but when you see the context it makes far more sense.

As somebody who adored @El-P WCW recaps, these are some of my favourite reads on the internet.

 

On 2/4/2021 at 9:05 AM, Cowboy Hats 4.0 said:

Add another voice (me) to the chorus of those thanking Da Thread Killer and appreciative of his ridiculous efforts here. I've had this post open in a tab for much of the last few weeks as I casually caught up. Thanks, TTK, and as many have already said, please don't feel an obligation to do this and if/when it becomes a burden, hopefully you know what to do.

Thank you very much for the positive feedback, good brothers.

[sek69]

On 2/4/2021 at 6:22 AM, Blehschmidt said:

You don't hear too many kind words about Jay Strongbow either.

I'm sure he wasn't the greatest guy ever, but wasn't part of his role to be the guy who snitched on the boys to the office?

[The Thread Killer]

On 1/11/2021 at 2:24 PM, Blehschmidt said:

any of the "Fires Back" pieces would get my vote.

 

On 1/11/2021 at 3:58 PM, Perfectly Straightedge said:

I would like to see any of the fires back especially for JR and Eric.

 

On 1/11/2021 at 4:35 PM, Alucard said:

I'll send votes to all the fires backs...

 

On 1/11/2021 at 6:15 PM, Yo-Yo's Roomie said:

I'd vote for sticking with Bischoff and doing the Eric Fires Back series.

Now that I have finally gotten around to transcribing the first half of the first episode of "Eric Fires Back" I will be curious to see how it is received...if people find it is interesting and lived up to their expectations, or if it wasn't worth the read.

If you voted for it (or even if you didn't but you ended up reading it anyway) check it out and let me know what you thought?

On 1/13/2021 at 10:13 PM, PeteF3 said:

Just speaking for me, Eric Fires Back seems like it would get old to read, much less transcribe, real quick.

That's the one major difference between the other recaps I have done so far, and the "Fires Back" episodes.  With the other stuff, they were pretty much just discussions, so I could listen to them and type out a summary of what was said.

With the "Fires Back" series...the whole point is the exact quotes of what was said about the subject, so paraphrasing isn't really as much of an option if I'm trying to capture the precise nature of the Shoot Interview aspect, and the rebuttal.  I can't really just type: "Jim Cornette says Eric Bischoff is a bitch."  It works better as a transcription.  I'm not sure if people will find that as interesting or as compelling to read.  The "Fires Back" episodes are certainly compelling to listen to, and they are very popular with AFS subscribers, but I'm not sure how they'll translate into writing.

I will probably finish the first episode of Eric Fires Back and transcribe the Mike Graham portion, since I've already got a start on it, and some of the stuff Graham spouts off is truly epic bullshit...but from there I'll wait and see what the general consensus is and what the interest level ends up being.  No point in transcribing the stuff if people don't find it as interesting as the recaps.

The other issue is, I have now recapped a good chunk of the stuff on the list I posted on Page 2 of this thread...and I have recapped all the best and most requested stuff (Eric Leaves WWE, Vader Goes Down, The Plane Ride from Hell, The Herd Interview, etc.)  Soon I will run out of stuff to recap, unless people come up with requests from other podcasts or sources.  It doesn't necessarily have to be from Ad Free Shows...if somebody wants a recap of one of Conrad's other podcasts or even something else, I'm pretty open to taking a crack at that as well.

Of course, the new episode of "Conversations with Conrad" featuring Jim Crockett should be coming out soon...I am sure that will be interesting and will keep me busy.

[Cowboy Hats 4.0]

Brilliant stuff, TTK. Bischoff on Hart was great, especially the part on his own self-reflection after doing the podcast for a bit.

And if you're hurting for requests...Iooking at page two, I'll put in a word for The Death of WCW debate.

[C.S.]

Much love to you, TTK, for the hard work that must've gone into transcribing that. I'm definitely looking forward to Part 2. I have a feeling Bischoff isn't going to go easy on poor Mike Graham, who came across as a needy little brother type with a big bark and not much bite, but it's still sad to think about. 

As for requests, hmm, I don't know... Unless I'm missing something obvious, I can't even see what content AFS offers. 

Someone mentioned a hilarious shoot between Raven and I think Balls talking about I believe Grizzly Smith with an exchange that was something like:

Balls?: Grizzly really fucked me.

Raven: So you are a little girl.

But search brings up nothing.

If Loss has search records, I'm sure he's going to wonder why I was searching for "Raven balls." 

[Blehschmidt]

I can help you with that exact quote @C.S.  

It's a Raven/Axl Rotten shoot, and I believe they are talking about Rotten's brief WCW run.

Raven: (something to the effect of) Why don' you think that worked out?

Axl: It was Grizzly Smith man. He really hated me.

Raven: Cause you weren't a 12 year old girl?

Axl: Ha! No man, he really fucked me.

Raven: So you were a 12 year old girl!

[Blehschmidt]

and the Fires Back stuff is definitely an interesting read, but it seems like an absolute bitch to transcribe. 

So if you called it after this one, I wouldn't blame you. 

Though if they play any Honky Tonk Man quotes, I would love to hear Eric's thoughts!

[C.S.]

18 hours ago, Blehschmidt said:

I can help you with that exact quote @C.S.  

It's a Raven/Axl Rotten shoot, and I believe they are talking about Rotten's brief WCW run.

Raven: (something to the effect of) Why don' you think that worked out?

Axl: It was Grizzly Smith man. He really hated me.

Raven: Cause you weren't a 12 year old girl?

Axl: Ha! No man, he really fucked me.

Raven: So you were a 12 year old girl!

Thank you, kind sir. That is all kinds of wrong but absolutely fucking hysterical.

Not sure why I confused Balls and Axl though. (To be fair, I've never actually seen the shoot. My only knowledge is that little gem of a exchange posted here.)

I have no idea if you have easy access to this shoot, @The Thread Killer, but if you do, it would be my vote for the next recap or at least a future recap.

P.S. I was going to say I don't remember the Rottens ever being in WCW, but maybe they were for a cup of coffee? I first saw them in the GWF (on ESPN) and later in ECW. 

[Blehschmidt]

No Worries! That is easily the highlight of that Raven/Axl shoot.

If someone were going to recap shoot interviews, I would point them toward Straight Shootin' with Jim Cornette and Bobby Heenan part 1, 2, and 3. Straight Shootin' with James Mitchell. and of course if you want some wild takes and controversial stuff virtually anything with the Honky Tonk Man. (The Mitchell shoot is something fucking else)

 

As for the Conrad stuff listed you offered to Recap, I know that my main interests would be "War Games Revisited" and "I Quit with Magnum and Tully"

[William Bologna]

These are great, @The Thread Killer. Thanks for doing them.

Interesting contrast between the two interviews back at which Eric is firing. In the Cornette one, someone is lying, and I think it's Jim. You know how in fake stories, the narrator/protagonist draws himself off and righteously tells off his enemy? It's always a full paragraph, and there are no interruptions or even usually a rejoinder. It often prompts bystanders to applaud and offer presents. This is one of those stories.

The Hart thing is more of a difference of opinion. Eric thinks Bret was a sad sack loser, and Bret says "Nuh-uh!" There's a lot of gray area in something like that.

[Migs]

1 hour ago, William Bologna said:

The Hart thing is more of a difference of opinion. Eric thinks Bret was a sad sack loser, and Bret says "Nuh-uh!" There's a lot of gray area in something like that.

Yeah, and both of them can be right at once. Bret really might have been fired up and ready to take on the world; but Eric is saying that that wasn't evident *to Eric*. He felt Bret was acting in away that indicated he didn't care. Bret had also worked for the same person for 13 years straight at that point; it's highly possible he misread the situation and didn't figure out how to present himself in that situation. (To be fair, there's also the aspect of who gives a shit how Bret came off to Eric, he was the other company's world champ who hadn't lost, you have to find a better way to use him).

[MoS]

Loving all the recaps, TTK! 

I love how Bischoff did not even take seriously the possibility of a physical confrontation with Cornette. Just a throwaya "That never happened but like, of course I would have kicked his ass. He is a carny fuck" Has there been anyone who cuts promos about getting into fights and trying to beat up other people while being a laughable weakling - and make fun of other people's looks while looking like Kentucky weasel with an eating disorder - more than Corny?

[The Thread Killer]

On 2/6/2021 at 12:10 PM, Cowboy Hats 4.0 said:

Brilliant stuff, TTK. Bischoff on Hart was great, especially the part on his own self-reflection after doing the podcast for a bit.

And if you're hurting for requests...Iooking at page two, I'll put in a word for The Death of WCW debate.

Thanks.  I think I will definitely take a crack at that Death of WCW debate.  I have to admit I have never listened to it, but I have it saved.  I have heard good things about it from a couple of different people, so based on your request I am officially putting it on my list.

On 2/6/2021 at 9:44 PM, C.S. said:

Much love to you, TTK, for the hard work that must've gone into transcribing that.

 

On 2/6/2021 at 11:03 PM, Blehschmidt said:

and the Fires Back stuff is definitely an interesting read, but it seems like an absolute bitch to transcribe. 

So if you called it after this one, I wouldn't blame you.

Honestly, I don't think I have what it takes to transcribe an entire podcast, word for word.  However, I found a way to make it work, that is how I was able to do the first half of "Eric Fires Back." 

I had actually sat down and started my usual routine of playing a few minutes, and then trying to type it out, but that's just too hard when you want to accurately quote somebody, not summarize what they are saying.  It stopped being fun and started feeling like work. I was going to give up on the whole idea of doing the "Fires Back" episodes, when I had an idea.

I decided to look into transcription software.  I found a website where you can upload audio files online, and the site will automatically transcribe the audio into the text. There were only three problems.

1) The site will only accept audio files of about 20 minutes, so I had to cut the podcast up into five segments and upload them individually.

2) The text file you get back is just one giant block of text with no punctuation whatsoever and...

3) The transcription is only about 75% accurate...at best.  The program can't transcribe the audio correctly if the person is speaking fast, and unfortunately Eric Bischoff tends to speak very fast.  I found the Conrad Thompson portions pretty accurate, and the Bret Hart clip came out practically word for word.  The Bischoff stuff, not so much.  But getting a big block of text made it infinitely easier for me to edit into a readable transcription, which resulted in the recap I posted. 

I think if I use that program when I recap anything I want to be direct quotes, it will work out well...and it seems to take the same amount of time that a normal recap takes, all things considered.

18 hours ago, C.S. said:

I have no idea if you have easy access to this shoot, @The Thread Killer, but if you do, it would be my vote for the next recap or at least a future recap.

I don't have a copy of that interview.  I can poke around (I have a buddy who has a ton of Shoot Interviews) but an Axl Rotten/Raven interview might be too obscure for him.  I will ask him if he has it.

17 hours ago, Blehschmidt said:

If someone were going to recap shoot interviews, I would point them toward Straight Shootin' with Jim Cornette and Bobby Heenan part 1, 2, and 3. Straight Shootin' with James Mitchell. and of course if you want some wild takes and controversial stuff virtually anything with the Honky Tonk Man. (The Mitchell shoot is something fucking else)

As for the Conrad stuff listed you offered to Recap, I know that my main interests would be "War Games Revisited" and "I Quit with Magnum and Tully"

I don't have the Cornette/Heenan Shoot Interviews, but I would love to see them and if I get them, I would be more than happy to recap them.  I had actually considered getting those in the past. Let me look into that.

In the meantime, I will add War Games and the I Quit podcasts to my list, after I finish "Eric Fires Back."

14 hours ago, William Bologna said:

These are great, @The Thread Killer. Thanks for doing them.

Interesting contrast between the two interviews back at which Eric is firing. In the Cornette one, someone is lying, and I think it's Jim. You know how in fake stories, the narrator/protagonist draws himself off and righteously tells off his enemy? It's always a full paragraph, and there are no interruptions or even usually a rejoinder. It often prompts bystanders to applaud and offer presents. This is one of those stories.

The Hart thing is more of a difference of opinion. Eric thinks Bret was a sad sack loser, and Bret says "Nuh-uh!" There's a lot of gray area in something like that.

 

8 hours ago, MoS said:

Loving all the recaps, TTK! 

I love how Bischoff did not even take seriously the possibility of a physical confrontation with Cornette. Just a throwaya "That never happened but like, of course I would have kicked his ass. He is a carny fuck" Has there been anyone who cuts promos about getting into fights and trying to beat up other people while being a laughable weakling - and make fun of other people's looks while looking like Kentucky weasel with an eating disorder - more than Corny?

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you guys.  It seems pretty obvious that Jim Cornette was full of shit regarding what he was saying about Bischoff.  Like Bischoff said...Bill Watts got fired from WCW, primarily for saying a bunch of racist shit in an interview that Hank Aaron found out about, and complained to Ted Turner.  That has pretty much been proven by this point. I know Watts tried to go around afterwards claiming he wasn't fired, he quit...but I think that has pretty much been proven as bullshit.  And Bischoff is also right...even if he did have the power to edit stuff from broadcasts, he hadn't taken over the Executive Producer job yet, while Cornette was still there.  I'm sure it's possible that somebody told Cornette it was Bischoff's fault...but aside from that Cornette is clearly full of shit.  I think the proof of that fact is that Cornette has heard Bischoff's rebuttal since then, and he hasn't pushed the issue.  I think Cornette knows it can be proven that Watts got fired and Bischoff didn't edit the angle, so he is (uncharacteristically) keeping quiet. As far as the Bret Hart clip...I thought Bischoff was actually pretty restrained in his response, all things considered.  If somebody called me a loser maggot who killed the entire Pro Wrestling business, I don't know how I'd respond.

[funkdoc]

On 2/7/2021 at 2:48 PM, C.S. said:

P.S. I was going to say I don't remember the Rottens ever being in WCW, but maybe they were for a cup of coffee? I first saw them in the GWF (on ESPN) and later in ECW. 

Quick tangent, but Axl was in WCW for a very short time in '91.  They even had him feud with PN News, which incorporated both the obvious Metal vs. Rap angle as well as a "who has the better top-rope splash" deal since both used that as their finisher.

[The Thread Killer]

Quick question for everybody who has been reading these recaps...

I still intend to finish transcribing the first episode of "Eric Fires Back."  I also want to transcribe the segment from one of the later episodes, with The Honky Tonk Man, for Good Brother @Blehschmidt, because he asked about it, and as I recall the clip is quite hilarious.

However, the next episode of "Conversations with Conrad" is due to be released this weekend.  That is the podcast where he interviewed Jim Herd on the first episode.  The new episode this weekend will feature another in depth interview...this time with Jim Crockett.

So my question is, is there any interest in reading a recap of the Jim Crockett interview...or would people rather just see me continue with the other stuff on the list?

[Blehschmidt]

Appreciate the HTM stuff. I know the two of them are.....not fond of one another. So it should be very entertaining.

A modern interview with Jimmy Crockett would be something I would definitely be interested in hearing about.

[MoS]

13 minutes ago, Blehschmidt said:

A modern interview with Jimmy Crockett would be something I would definitely be interested in hearing about.

Same here