The grand and pathetic journey of the Undertaker at WrestleMania

[Log]

He was also able to wrestle like once a year in those later matches. That probably helped a lot with his injuries. 

[Robert S]

10 minutes ago, Log said:

He was also able to wrestle like once a year in those later matches. That probably helped a lot with his injuries. 

In some of his highly heralded matches of his last years, he took a lot of real punishment and basically had one year to heal up afterwards (the third HHH match comes to mind, consider how his body looked, the stuff Taker took there did not have much to do with working anymore).

[Robert S]

11 minutes ago, El-P said:

I mean from a pure pro-wrestling booking standpoint, yes the build toward Mania XIV was good BUT the angle was trash (really, Taker's little brother who murdered his parents by burning the funeral house down and who was also the son of Paul Bearer and who was burned so badly he was hidden for 30 years, come on people), the worker was trash and the match was trash. Well built trash is still trash. And like I said in the review, the match was also pretty damn heatless, actually, so it's not like the audience cared. Maybe if the work had not been so bad, they would have.

Don't forget that Kane burned Taker "to a crisp" at Royal Rumble. It was definitely by far the longest build-up of an Undertaker Wrestlemania match by the point in time, but if you consider the build-up good, well, YMMV.

[flyonthewall2983]

2 minutes ago, Robert S said:

In some of his highly heralded matches of his last years, he took a lot of real punishment and basically had one year to heal up afterwards (the third HHH match comes to mind, consider how his body looked, the stuff Taker took there did not have much to do with working anymore).

And I didn't realize this until I saw the Last Ride doc, but it was as hard to train for those matches because he didn't work as regularly as he used to anymore. He didn't have that routine leading up to those big matches he did 20 years before, especially when you worked with a guy so many times on house shows before it's finally on television. I saw him work Yoko in a house show almost a year before their Royal Rumble match, for example. 

[NintendoLogic]

It was Taker, not Kane, who burned the funeral house down and killed their parents. It's been decades since I actually watched the storyline so that may be a retcon, but that's the current WWE canon. My recollection is that it was always Taker who started the fire, but whether it was accidental or intentional depended on whatever his face/heel alignment was at the moment.

[Log]

I don't recall, but was the story that Paul Bearer worked at the funeral home that Taker/Kane's parents owned?

Also, it was probably pretty awkward when customers met him.  "Wait.  What?  Did you just say your name is Paul Bearer?  And you work at a funeral home?  Are you shitting me?  Well, I guess you kind of had to work here, didn't you?"

[El-P]

51 minutes ago, Robert S said:

Don't forget that Kane burned Taker "to a crisp" at Royal Rumble. It was definitely by far the longest build-up of an Undertaker Wrestlemania match by the point in time, but if you consider the build-up good, well, YMMV.

Totally forgot about that one !  Hey, I did not call any of this good. I mean, as far as building up a rivalry between Taker and a monster, from a strictly pro-wrestling standpoint, yeah, there was more work into this one than any other before. But like I said, it as still trash.

49 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

It was Taker, not Kane, who burned the funeral house down and killed their parents.

Right you are. That storyline was soooo bad. Really.

18 minutes ago, Log said:

I don't recall, but was the story that Paul Bearer worked at the funeral home that Taker/Kane's parents owned?

Yeah. And he sexed the mother, while lil'Taker was watching.

Kane Origins... No wonder his career ended up 20 years of shit matches and angles !

So, anyone for a defense of the Bossman hanging ? 

[flyonthewall2983]

No moral defense, but it was a clever gag in an otherwise abysmal segment. 

[El-P]

I thought it was gloomy as fuck, just totally out of place. Bossman sold it well, that's about as far as I can go.

[Cowboy Hats 4.0]

I know I can just look this up, but in the spirit of conversation (and as an excuse to thank EL-P for the good and easy reads here)...I had it in my head that their WM 14 match was an inferno match (or whatever they call it where they have fire around the ring). Was that at an IYH a month or two later?

[ButchReedMark]

Yeah, it was next month at Unforgiven.

[flyonthewall2983]

For what it is, it's actually a good match and maybe better than the one at 14 (I haven't seen it in a long time).

[The Thread Killer]

38 minutes ago, flyonthewall2983 said:

For what it is, it's actually a good match and maybe better than the one at 14 (I haven't seen it in a long time).

Agreed.  Granted, I haven't gone back and watched it...but at the time I distinctly remember thinking that it was better than the match they had at WM14, much more visually impressive, and wishing they had done that gimmick match at WM instead of the dull, plodding affair they ended up having in Boston.

[TheDuke]

From my own anecdotal recollection,  the biggest reason by far for me that there was interest in the Kane Undertaker Mania 14 match was because Kane was undefeated before then and has basically no sold everything.  The question was, can Undertaker even beat him? This was during a time when I was more interested in the storyline then the matches.

[El-P]

WrestleMania X-Seven (2001) – Undertaker vs Triple H

The night before the Fall. The apex of the Attitude Era and the son-in-law is getting Motörhead. The Rock or Steve Austin never got even close to this entrance and you know why ? They did not need it. Meanwhile, Taker is rollin rollin rollin and WWF is rollin rollin rollin on pop culture zeitgeist for the first time since, hell, ever probably by paying for the rights of that awful Limp Bizkit song that was both shit and the shit. Like I said, it was the night before the Fall, the end of History, it’s not surprising they still believe nu-metal is the way to go 20 years later. Taker in full MAGA mode, I mean retrospectively it’s kinda hilarious watching this that anyone would be surprised about his political views. Big mistake to me in term of characterization, I hated it. I understand the Devil Taker really had damaged his aura (cf last year) and some change was needed, but Disciple of the Apocalypse Taker really isn’t doing anything for me.

However, this match does, especially in the beginning. Attitude Era means Trip bumps on a table about 30 seconds into the match. He really pinballs a lot for Taker and I had forgotten that Trip was actually really good at this, especially for a guy with his frame, he was so jacked then. He’s really good with his timing too, with some swift counters. As Taker is going for the rope-walk spot, he’s shouting « Old School !» and so here we are, Taker has reached that point in WWF lore where his classic spots are just that, « classics », and doing the rope walk is basically him playing the hits. But he gets countered and thrown off the tope rope as he’s basking too much in his own legacy-wanking, that was a nice touch. Meanhile Trip is in full Flair mode with the pushing the ref/getting pushed spot. You can smell the dog & pony show for miles ahead as Trip goes for the idiotic sledgehammer very quickly, leading to more bullshit with the ref (it is not a no-DQ match), a pedigree tease into a ref bump (like, 5 minutes in) and a giant chokeslam for a good nearfall. The audience is molten, so this shit is working and this has been better than the Diesel match thus far.

However, this is where we get to the silly part. Another ref bump and it’s time to walk around in the crowd and brawl toward the elevated hard-cam area. It’s fine and makes for a cool visual. That’s really what they are going after : a visual. The visual of Triple H beating Taker with chairs on a scaffold tower and then, Taker holding Trip by the throat and throwing him off. We’re getting a Mania Moment tm, see ? But the bump is actually not showed, which kinda feels like a production fuck up. Except it’s really not, as when they do kinda sorta show it on the replay, you can see Trip bumping off a mattress and this is where it is silly because it’s so obviously padded (and the fall not nearly high enough) that it loses quite a bit of its effect. When Taker throws a big elbow off the tower onto Trip, you can see the landing is bouncy as fuck. From there, the match really had lost its pace all for the sake of visuals and Mania Moment tm, and now they have to walk back toward the ring where the ref is STILL DOWN ! Really now, this is silly as hell, this is the most fragile ref ever.

Bullshit aside, they work a nice stretch of more dog & pony show toward the finish, with Taker teasing the sledgehammer only to get a balls shot, then a Tombstone reversal spot (basically both old school Taker match trope at this point as well as an old WCW staple) but the ref is STILL DOWN (come on, really now ?) ! So Trip doesn’t have to kick out of the Tombstone (when you think Kane kicked out of two, how ridiculous was that in retrospect). Then probably the most memorable spot of the match as Taker goes for his brand new spot, his big time Last Ride powerbomb (hey, he’s dressed like Diesel, might as well steal his finisher too) with Trip countering with the sledgehammer (yeah, I know, but at this point you either accept the stupidity of it or you don’t) leading to a legit great nearfall, with the terrific frustration sell afterward. Taker bleeds again from this which is a nice detail touch too, which also allows Trip to work another good logical transition as he’s now punching the wound in the corner but stupidly climbs the ropes for a higher, more efficient placement, which allows Taker to do the Last Ride.

It’s clearly overproduced in the sens it’s mostly a dog & pony show with a ridiculously long ref sell and the match suffers from the middle part where they sacrifice the pace for the sake of a visual aka a Mania Moment tm, which really is typical of this era (crowd brawling / big spot) and also foreshadows the style of the bigger over-scripted matches to come. As it is, I can’t say it’s better than the Diesel match (which was less ambitious but had a much better organic flow), but it’s still absolutely watchable and quite fun overall, if you don’t mind the bullshit.

2-7

[El-P]

Chapter 5 : It seems like we have a winning streak going on here...

WrestleMania X8 (2002) – Undertaker vs Ric Flair

We’re getting closer and closer to referring to a streak, as JR mentions every year that Taker has not been beaten at Mania. It’s 2002, the last time Howard Finkel does the announcing, the Attitude Era has ended the previous year and the company is now starting its long, slow descent into the monopoly era, getting progressively less and less popular, evolving less and less, eventually looking back at pre-2001 as the apex of their History. Flair first Mania match in ten years, at 53 years old, ponder that for a minute. Yes, this is indeed one of these "dream match happening too late but it's still cool it's happening deal", although Taker and Flair had a match on TV in the Fall of 92 during the zombie era, in which Taker basically no-sold everything Flair did...

Despite the fact the Attitude Era is gone, they both bump onto the table outside after about 20 seconds, so yeah, this stuff is still en vogue. Flair throws the best punches any Taker opponent has since Jake Roberts. Lots of fire too at the beginning before Taker, who’s a heel again here, takes over and it’s kinda like the previous year's match except Flair bumps a lot less. As he should, because he totally fucks up his Flair bump in the corner. In a clear sign of « we don’t think on our feet », they go back in the opposite corner with more punching so Taker can re-launch Flair so he can finally do the Flair bump, into a big boot which throws him on the outside. When you have a planned spot, you have a planned spot... BTW, Taker has short hair now and it looks odd. Still is dressed like Kevin Nash and interestingly enough, he actually does a lot of Nash spots now like the elbows in the corner, the sidewalk slam and the transition where his leg gets crotched on the top rope on a failed big boot. What is not a Nash spot however is that huge top rope superplex that is super impressive.

Apart from this, it’s honestly kinda tedious to watch when Taker is on offense, beating Flair who’s bleeding like a pig and actually getting him up *twice* on pinfalls, so it kinda comes off as a prolongued squash (as if nothing really had changed in the perception Vince had of Flair since 1992, except now the excuse is that he's old and passed his prime, a terrific way to put him over, really). After the huge superplex, Flair will basically not take any other bump and just throw huge chops to the delight of the audience who reacts big for this. But really, even when they do the same counter off « Old School » as the previous year, Flair just can’t get any offense in for more than three seconds until they go outside and Flair uses a led pipe from the bike (this is no DQ). So, double blood, Flair gets a balls shot in, figure four spot follows, it’s Flair playing the hits basically as there was zero work on the legs before, but it pops the crowd and that’s Flair game. Short sell, counter with the choke leading of course into the chokeslam. Nearfall of sorts, twice... 

From then Taker hits the ref because whatever, gets the led pipe and it's time for the spot of the night of course, as Arn hits the spinebuster from nowhere and we get The Nearfall (which really made the whole match famous). Arn gets booted in the face to earn his money, Flair with a bunch of chairs to the back and we’re in smokes and mirrors territory. And then we get another occurence of Flair being way past his prime, as Taker can’t get him up for the Last Ride and has to put him down. Second try : Flair basically drops to the ground in a sorta « nope, not going up man » way so Taker just grabs him and gets the Tombstone for the win. Well, apart from the two huge spots (the superplex and of course Arn's), this is an *ok* match which still reads almost as a long, semi-competitive squash of an older guy.

I remember back then lots of people were going gaga over it and for years to come we’ve heard the ridiculous « Flair can outwork 90% of the roster » talking point but the reality of things is that Flair screwed up his own classic bump then screwed up the finish, not once, but twice. He bled, used object shots and played a few hits (big chops, balls shot, figure four, all of which popped the crowd like crazy), but apart from this, he did not look good. The fact Flair is who he is and this is Mania and you got that awesome Arn spot factor a whole lot in this match being *crazy* overrated. Overall, it’s pretty good and enjoyable because of the star power, with one crazy great spot and nearfall on Taker (maybe the best until this point).

3-7

[Robert S]

1 hour ago, El-P said:

(...) although Taker and Flair had a match on TV in the Fall of 92 during the zombie era, in which Taker basically no-sold everything Flair did... (...)

If you are talking about the match I am thinking of, that was a non-TV match that is only available on VHS (Wrestling Grudge Matches and problably some comp).

Quote

 

(...) In a clear sign of « we don’t think on our feet », they go back in the opposite corner with more punching so Taker can re-launch Flair so he can finally do the Flair bump, into a big boot which throws him on the outside. When you have a planned spot, you have a planned spot... (...)

 

In the long Highspots interview Flair did after leaving WWE, he talked about how he had no self-confidence at all after his last years in WCW, where he felt completely beaten down. (Consider that, Ric Flair being insecure, must have been a Wednesday.) I don't remember in detail what he said, but I think the gist of it was that when he joined WWF he just did what he was told as he felt that at this point he knew and could do nothing. I think it might have actually been this match that somewhat gave him back a bit of self esteem (again, that 10 hour or whatever interview was 15 or so years ago, so don't quote me on that). If you consider that mindset, it somewhat explains that part of the match.

[El-P]

5 minutes ago, Robert S said:

If you are talking about the match I am thinking of, that was a non-TV match that is only available on VHS (Wrestling Grudge Matches and problably some comp).

I saw it on Superstars. That being said, I also saw the Shawn Micheals vs Bret Hart ladder match from the same period on Superstars, as the French version had added stuff like stuff from MSG or other house shows on regular basis too (and later on some RAW matches sometimes, at least until 94/95 where things became really streamlined and we got the same exact stuff I believe).

5 minutes ago, Robert S said:

In the long Highspots interview Flair did after leaving WWE, he talked about how he had no self-confidence at all after his last years in WCW, where he felt completely beaten down. (...) If you consider that mindset, it somewhat explains that part of the match.

Yes, I'm aware of that and it's pretty obvious there with him blowing two key spots pretty badly.

That being said, I won't detract my point about Flair later on in the decade being insanely overrated.  

[MoS]

Apparently Taker deliberately asked him to try that spot again, cuz he knew Flair had zero confidence, and he wanted Flair to get some of his confidence back. Flair said the same.

[El-P]

1 minute ago, MoS said:

Apparently Taker deliberately asked him to try that spot again, cuz he knew Flair had zero confidence, and he wanted Flair to get some of his confidence back. Flair said the same.

So, Flair wasn't good and Taker made a Mania match into a personal training session. Not a positive point for either in my book !

[C.S.]

There's actually a great* novelization about Kane, which of course covers the Undertaker feud, but it somehow also manages to tie in Taker's pre-WWE history in Texas with Percy Pringle. 

 

https://prowrestling.fandom.com/wiki/Journey_into_Darkness:_An_Unauthorized_History_of_Kane

*Great is used very loosely here.

[El-P]

WrestleMania XIX (2003) – Undertaker vs A-Train & Big Show

What an odd match to book. Way to make Big Show nothing special at all, although that ship had sailed a long time ago anyway. It’s quite interesting that WWE (finally) moved Mania back into big stadiums each year after their peak years of the Attitude Era, making Mania mean more than it ever had before despite their constant loss of overall popularity. And I love the stadium settings with crazy entrance sets too, so that's all good for me. And there’s a crazy entrance for you as Limp Bizkit (it was really the end of the line for him in term of mainstream pop culture relevancy) is rollin rollin rollin live with a bunch of dancers to boot and Biker Taker rolls on his ride with the USA (that would need to be made great again eventually) flag. I can’t stand Bizkit but as a pro-wrestling entrance in this context and setting, yeah, it does slap.

Hey, a Smackdown ref ! And Micheal Cole announcing and actually referring to the 10-0 streak ! Here we are ! And maybe the booking of this match kinda came from that very fact, that the Streak was now a really conscious thing so it was enough to just throw Taker a bunch of monsters to kill again. But unlike in the 90’s, it’s actually good ! Nothing classic at all, but A-Train was a terrific worker as showed here, he carries almost the entire load, and I don’t just mean of the match, as Big Show is late-WCW heavy and produces barely more than King Kong Bundy in 95. A-Train goes in the air for the chokeslam after about 10 seconds so you know how much these guys matter, but the match is short, dynamic (apart from a quite laughable abdominal stretch spot as if both these guys turned into I.R.S.), with Taker showing his brand new passion : shootsyle mofo ! Turning Big Show’s attempted chokeslam into an arm bar actually looked pretty damn cool. But really, it’s A-Train being a really good working big guy here, also taunting Taker as he’s not « the Big Dog ! ».

Taker on fire (amazing contrast when you think about his early 90’s match, you could make a case it’s not even the same guy) doing Old School and even the flying clothesline, nothing is pretty but it’s just pretty explosive all along. The finish involves Nathan Jones of all people, yeah, remember that guy ? Me neither. Those bizarre post Attitude Era/pre-John Cena days I guess. So anyway, he’s kicking some monster’s ass and Taker does a fat Tombstone on A-Train.

Short and surprisingly good and fun, from the totally over the top intro to the dynamic action with A-Train as an excellent dance partner.

4 -7

[The Thread Killer]

5 minutes ago, El-P said:

The finish involves Nathan Jones of all people

Maybe I'm remembering this wrong...but wasn't this match supposed to be a Tag Team match up until right before the show, featuring The Undertaker & Nathan Jones against A-Train & Big Show, but they actually pulled Jones from the match because they thought he wasn't good enough?  I remember hearing that rumor somewhere, but I could be wrong.  Maybe it was on Prichard's podcast?

[El-P]

Just now, The Thread Killer said:

Maybe I'm remembering this wrong...but wasn't this match supposed to be a Tag Team match up until right before the show, featuring The Undertaker & Nathan Jones against A-Train & Big Show, but they actually pulled Jones from the match because they thought he wasn't good enough? 

No idea, but that would be quite funny. "Fuck man, you suck, let Taker & Train have a good match and you'll only show up at the end to do the one spot your sorry ass can do !" It's not like Nathan Jones lit the world on fire after that either.

[NintendoLogic]

@The Thread Killer is correct. It was originally supposed to be a tag match, but it became increasingly obvious as the show drew near that Jones was nowhere near ready. So they booked an angle on Heat where Show and Albert laid him out and it turned into a handicap match.

As far as stadium shows go, WM19 did a shockingly low buyrate (which WWE of course blamed on the show taking place in Seattle), so the next three Manias were at arenas. They didn't return to stadiums until WM23 in 2007 (which, incidentally, I attended with my brother).