MoS Posted March 26, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 Also, I really wanted to share this earlier lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 Amazed that anyone here would get that bent out of shape over a reality show. Yeah It looks kinda dumb. No I have no interest in watching it. It's practically zero risk and all reward for AEW. If it becomes a hit and draws more eyes, great. If it flops its no big deal since most of AEW's hardcores won't watch it and won't know if it gets canceled anyway. The only possible downside would be if it flops and somehow sours TNT folks on AEW, which considering how much they seem to love them doesn't seem likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted March 26, 2021 Report Share Posted March 26, 2021 34 minutes ago, MoS said: You don't really have any locus standi to accuse others of being rude when most of your posts about this have been calling most people who post here (and on Reddit) toxic, essentially stupid. Using rasslin' as a pejorative was perhaps droll and on-point 35 years ago, but now it's just tired and cliché I didn't bring up Reddit though - someone else did and I responded to that - nor did I call "most" people here stupid. Way to put words into my mouth. With that said, I honestly don't mean to come across as rude, and I apologize if that's the case. However, if my "tired and cliché" posts really bug you this much, just block me and be done with it. I don't think it's any secret though that I have very little time for most rasslin' fans. Before you jump on my ass thinking I mean the posters here at PWO, I do not. In fact, I defended PWO posters recently as intelligent and the exception to the rule. I can't remember the thread or context now, but basically someone was saying wrestling fans aren't that bad, and I responded that perhaps he's been spoiled by the intelligent and (mostly) level-headed discourse here at PWO. If someone else remembers this convo, feel free to link back to it. It happened within the last month or two. 27 minutes ago, sek69 said: Amazed that anyone here would get that bent out of shape over a reality show. Yeah It looks kinda dumb. No I have no interest in watching it. It's practically zero risk and all reward for AEW. If it becomes a hit and draws more eyes, great. If it flops its no big deal since most of AEW's hardcores won't watch it and won't know if it gets canceled anyway. The only possible downside would be if it flops and somehow sours TNT folks on AEW, which considering how much they seem to love them doesn't seem likely. Agreed 100%. The only real risk is what you mention at the end, and I can't foresee that being even a tiny issue. CNN wouldn't hold it against Anderson Cooper for flopping on a baking show (hypothetical example, not a real one), and I don't think TNT will hold it against two wrestlers if they don't succeed at something that isn't strictly about wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted March 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 6 hours ago, C.S. said: However, if my "tired and cliché" posts really bug you this much, just block me and be done with it. Who is putting words in the mouth now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 On 3/25/2021 at 8:27 PM, Migs said: Hangman is INCREDIBLY relatable. Anxious millennials with impostor syndrome and a drinking problem sounds like a really high percentage of my friends. Also, pretty sure everyone knows a video game nerd now. Huh I never thought of Hangman like that. But I don't watch BTE. Or Dark so I guess I'm missing the nuance to the character. I think we've had this debate before that they can't just assume people watching Dynamite follow the storylines/character development on BTE. He was over like rover out of the gate and a year and a half later is just another guy and not getting much if any reaction. While people can relate to anxiety and alcoholism, nobody is going to cheer for it. Also I don't know any video game nerds who can fight or are good at sports. Nerd culture is in now, but it doesn't make nerdy guys believable pro wrestlers. Another thing I think you and I have debated here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 12 hours ago, sek69 said: Amazed that anyone here would get that bent out of shape over a reality show. Yeah It looks kinda dumb. No I have no interest in watching it. It's practically zero risk and all reward for AEW. If it becomes a hit and draws more eyes, great. If it flops its no big deal since most of AEW's hardcores won't watch it and won't know if it gets canceled anyway. The only possible downside would be if it flops and somehow sours TNT folks on AEW, which considering how much they seem to love them doesn't seem likely. Yeah, totally. It's a win-win. The negative reaction from weirdos is weird. Tony Khan wants to grow this business venture. Getting more non nerd eyes on his promotion is how business works, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 If I never hear the words "geeks", "nerds", "weirdos" ever relating to wrestlers and/or posters on PWO no less, it'll be too fucking soon. The "look at us we're so mainstream and normal" shit can go away yesterday. Fucking normies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 Wow. I never thought not liking Bravo-style reality shows would be the thing that alienated me from this board. I’m a weirdo now, I guess. I’m just a little sad nerd living in my little wrestling bubble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 That's reversed gatekeeping, basically. 20 years ago we would spend 25$ to buy VCR tapes from bizarre Japanese indie promotions and that was absolutely considered the normal thing to do. Today, you're kinda pissed that the big announcement of the week is a dumb real TV show > "Wow, you're such a weirdo man, plus why do you even watch those guys doing flips in promotions no one cares about, ya nerd ?" Ooooook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 The latest WON points to some ratings trends that are hard to deny. When they up the violence and blood quotient, they do gain men, but they lose women at a bigger rate and it hurts them. AEW experiences declines with women every time they do juice or too many table spots or weapon shots. That's probably an argument to avoid doing it, at least on television, because it chases away women faster than it lures in men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted March 27, 2021 Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 Interesting statistic. So that recent women's main event, which Tony and the EVPs presumably hoped would bring in more women's viewers, probably ended up driving them away with all the bloodshed. There was even a shirt put out afterward of a bleeding Baker, which my friend promptly bought for himself, but the appeal is completely lost on me. I'll probably "dare" him to wear it the next time we meet (post-pandemic). Then Britt Baker complained to Meltzer that he didn't give the match five stars (I'm surprised that wasn't brought up here, or maybe I missed it - but modern wrestlers caring so much about one man's arbitrary ratings is another thread in itself). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted March 27, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2021 I don't think juice is the problem, because AEW has always had juice. But overusing it and overusing the violent hardcore spots, often for no reason but for gratuitous violence and shock value, will drive away women viewers at a bigger rate than it gains older men. I think the big secret to regaining the women viewers is to simply push the young good-looking talented wrestlers that they have. The newest WON showed that Darby is an undeniable draw and Darby-Silver was a massive success. Simply having hot storylines and matches involving young exciting talent beats gimmick matches for the heck of it and all the weapons and hardcore stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 15 hours ago, MoS said: I think the big secret to regaining the women viewers is to simply push the young good-looking talented wrestlers that they have. Ca you picture the reaction if you've said the same thing but the genders were reversed ? It would be called objectifying and sexist and whatever. And you can still argue that very point is sexist because what does that say about the women viewers, really ? Of course you're right (Dragon Gate anyone ?), but I think it's interesting how sometimes some stuff get undersold, about how pro-wrestling has always sold bodies and looks (not strictly this of course, but it has been part of the game for at the very least the last 30/40 years). It's been showed that women wrestling in WWE did not draw women well either. Riho did, so there. More Riho, less blood. Which is understandable. As far as Britt complaining, I've not seen it so I won't pass judgement, but if so that's really dumb. I mean, fans complaining about the Metz ratings is stupid, but a worker doing it... Really ? I mentioned in the HOF thread how I had much more sympathy for artists who did not care that much about those things. Plus, it's not like Meltz did not say it was like the best and most memorable women match in the US in forever, may one of the Top 2 ever (despite really disliking the style BTW). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 I've only seen the Oral Sessions interview with Renee Young and it sounded like Britt said it in jest. She did actually mention Meltzer after the match but after going through the high pressure stakes her and Rosa did she should be cut some slack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 The WON stats aren't surprising at all. If you looked at companies who relied on violence and gore to draw, the same thing usually happened. The increase in violence draws but it also drives some people away. Over time the audience drawn in becomes desensitized and moves on while the audience that was driven away never comes back. Its why WWE pivoted away from the violence 15 years ago. It's a trend that's happened over and over with different promotions where an increase in juice is good for the short term but not the long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 18 minutes ago, Big Pete said: I've only seen the Oral Sessions interview with Renee Young and it sounded like Britt said it in jest. Ok, because sometimes (a lot of times ?) I know these things are blown way out of proportions and taken out of context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 Just now, joeg said: Its why WWE pivoted away from the violence 15 years ago. Can't say that worked very well for them. But yeah, juice is good when used sporadically. Especially now I'd guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 Just now, El-P said: Can't say that worked very well for them. But yeah, juice is good when used sporadically. Especially now I'd guess. I mean it has worked out for them. For us fans not so much... the last decade was their most profitable despite putting out a product that was substandard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 19 minutes ago, joeg said: I mean it has worked out for them. For us fans not so much... the last decade was their most profitable despite putting out a product that was substandard. Oh sure. I don't see how a little bloodshed would have prevented the MBS deal though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 Would have the gore of the late Attitude Era/early 2000s have prevented the big renewal with USA, the Fox deal, the launch of the WWE Network, the Peacock merger, etc? My guess is yeah probably. Even though 20 years ago there were three times as many people watching WWF, none of those deals would have came about as at the time it was just too raunchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 WWE superficially cleaning up and being much nicer to the media opened the door for things like the MBS deal to even take place. There are far worse things about wrestling than blading, but that's the thing that seems to turn off more of the real world on a surface level than most other things they do, so it made sense to ditch it. I say that as a fan who likes blood in matches. Of course, then they started drawing blood hardaway, which is significantly worse, and somehow they created situations like that Lesnar-Orton match that should have gotten them far more blowback than blading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 The MBS ref went straight over your heads I see. He's a guy who has a journalist kidnapped, murdered and beheaded. Hence why "a little bloodshed would not have prevented a deal with MBS"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 No I got the joke. I'm sure Loss did too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 And so you went Lance Storm on my ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeg Posted March 28, 2021 Report Share Posted March 28, 2021 Lol no, it was a nice play on words I'll give it to you. But without toning down the violence in the early 2000s, WWE doesn't land the Saudi deal. MBS has been trying to present modern Saudi Arabia as more palatable to western foreign investment while still using the same brutal tactics to control domestic public opinion used by his father and grandfather. Really a have your cake and eat it too take on diplomacy. Having WWE do shows in Saudi Arabia is a small part of that western PR campaign. If WWE had not made the push to appeal to mainstream advertisers, I doubt WWE would have had the same sort of public relations appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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