AEW All Out 2021 - September 5, 2021

[Ricky Jackson]

2 hours ago, strobogo said:

 

No. He looked and moved like an old guy and feels like he's from a completely different era all together, even though there are even older guys also there who feel more relevant to the current game. It was weird. Certainly some Bret in WCW vibes where yeah it was Bret and there were a lot of entertaining promos and some good matches, but it wasn't BRET HART.

Considering it was his first match in like 7 1/2 years let's give the guy at least few months before totally writing him off as a washed up shell of himself. Especially after a match it seems most people liked, even if it won't be remembered as a classic 

[KawadaSmile]

Casino Match was not good, some really WEIRD decisions, but Ruby Soho trumps all that. Having her and Thunder Rosa (aka one of the top three talent in AEW) as the final two was a smart call. Love 'em both. 

Just let Ruby beat Baker for the title, really. Gimme a lengthy feud with Thunder Rosa. I dunno, Ruby feels like the biggest acquisition. Yeah, Bryan is possibly the best wrestler on the planet and he has new heads to kick in, but AEW's women's division needed more of a spark. 

[KawadaSmile]

The crowd was just unwilling to let anything ruin the night and hijacked that fucking horrible Jericho entrance.

There is a fool with a Benoit Club shirt oh my God

Best worker of the match by far was ref Aubrey. MJF can talk, but he is not engaging in the ring, and Jericho is just too old, bloated, and broken to make a difference at this point. The fact they decided to start with a slow methodical pace when this is a blood feud just makes things even weirder. Why wasn't this no DQ, even?

Well, at least this means Jericho won't be on the commentary booth! 

 

[Coffey]

17 hours ago, strobogo said:

His thing was always fighting against the system that said he couldn't make it, but now he's rich and old and content and now in a system that treats him like a god, so he just seemed like old wrassler guy doing old wrassler guy things. Almost a Backlund in his WWF return before the turn, but Punk has done about every possible iteration of his character as can be done. 

So he's Eminem?

[El-P]

23 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Best worker of the match by far was ref Aubrey. MJF can talk, but he is not engaging in the ring, and Jericho is just too old, bloated, and broken to make a difference at this point. The fact they decided to start with a slow methodical pace when this is a blood feud just makes things even weirder. Why wasn't this no DQ, even?

You aren't following the product, are you ? The story is "Is Jericho able to beat MJF in a pro-wrestling match", it's not a "blood feud" (which really is an overused term). He lost two times before, he has to prove to himself that he can beat MJF. He's got an injured elbow and MJF's finisher is the Fujiwara armbar, hence the work on the elbow and the focus on submission since Jericho already submitted once to MJF. There is no reason to have a no-DQ match here. It could be Jericho's last match ever, so there's every reason in the world to be methodical, on both part. As far as Jericho's work goes, people seem to forget that he's 50 years old. He's been doing mighty fine for his age and blows away tons of guys who at 50 were washed up shells of themselves, and that includes guys like Flair, who was legit *not good* at the same age. The old-school callbacks were very well executed. MJF is super solid and has improved a lot. The finish was actually brillant. Overall, it was a very good match, really.

[Mad Dog]

20 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

The crowd was just unwilling to let anything ruin the night and hijacked that fucking horrible Jericho entrance.

There is a fool with a Benoit Club shirt oh my God

Best worker of the match by far was ref Aubrey. MJF can talk, but he is not engaging in the ring, and Jericho is just too old, bloated, and broken to make a difference at this point. The fact they decided to start with a slow methodical pace when this is a blood feud just makes things even weirder. Why wasn't this no DQ, even?

Well, at least this means Jericho won't be on the commentary booth! 

 

Why would MJF agree to that though. He wants to end Jericho's career and losing DQs takes away an avenue of getting rid of him. Speaking strictly in character here obviously. 

[Mad Dog]

1 minute ago, El-P said:

You aren't following the product, are you ? The story is "Is Jericho able to beat MJF in a pro-wrestling match", it's not a "blood feud" (which really is an overused term). He lost two times before, he has to prove to himself that he can beat MJF. He's got an injured elbow and MJF's finisher is the Fujiwara armbar, hence the work on the elbow and the focus on submission since Jericho already submitted once to MJF. There is no reason to have a no-DQ match. It could be Jericho's last match ever, so there's every reason in the world to be methodical, on both part. As far as Jericho's work goes, people seem to forget that he's 50 years old. He's been doing mighty fine for his age and blows away tons of guys who at 50 were washed up shells of themselves, and that includes guys like Flair. The old-school callbacks were very well executed. MJF is super solid and has improved a lot. The finish was actually brillant. Overall, it was a very good match.

I think he's mostly fine but I don't necessarily look forward to Jericho's matches. I agree the callback spots were good and I thought after the restart they got it right. But when it comes to Jericho inring, I just expect watchable with an occasional good match. But match work is not what he really brings to the table for AEW. 

[El-P]

I think people take things for granted and if Jericho isn't delivering a billion stars match, he has to be totally useless (like CM Punk, who apparently after 7 years + absence totally sucks or something and already overstayed its welcome). Nuance ? What's that ? Oh, anyways...

[KawadaSmile]

That's fine and all, bubbas. It really puzzled me Jericho blatantly using a foreign object while they were going back to the ring after fighting in the crowd. I was wondering what that was all about, but with the clarification, the match itself makes more sense! It's still not something I'd call good or anything, but it was an easy watch.

 

CM Punk couldn't have chosen a better wrestler to make his return. Allin was just flying around, taking ridiculous bumps on irish whips, dives, just about everything. They milked as much as they could out of the small things, which is good. No need for Phil to overdo it or anything. 

Unlike bubba @strobogo, I don't think he's that broken down, but things really did change in those 7 years. It feels like there is some jetlag, but at the same time I don't expect him to have a workrate marathon with someone like Omega or Cole - nor he should, tbh.

 

 

[El-P]

Believe me, Omega will have a great match with CM Punk. He has ways to have a great match with *anyone*. Crazy luchador Fénix ? Check. Up and comer underdog Jungle Boy ? Check. Insane brawler in an Onita-style deatchmatch ? Check. 48 years old Christian Cage who certainly can't go like Okada would ? Check. Omega will have a great match with Punk, because he can. Because he's the GOAT #2 or 1. 

[sek69]

7 minutes ago, El-P said:

Believe me, Omega will have a great match with CM Punk. He has ways to have a great match with *anyone*. Crazy luchador Fénix ? Check. Up and comer underdog Jungle Boy ? Check. Insane brawler in an Onita-style deatchmatch ? Check. 48 years old Christian Cage who certainly can't go like Okada would ? Check. Omega will have a great match with Punk, because he can. Because he's the GOAT #2 or 1. 

This. Kenny may be a goof but there's really no one else around right now who can have a good to great match with anyone in the world in any style. 

Punk's match was fine for a guy who hasn't done this since 2014, Darby was the perfect opponent for his first match. You want a guy who can bump around for you while you get your sea legs back, and there's not a better guy to fill that role than Darby. It's always been said that the only way to get the ring rust off is to have matches, all the training in the world is no substitution for having actual matches, so if Punk was able to pull off what he did while being that rusty I don't think we're going need to worry much about him. 

[SirEdger]

27 minutes ago, El-P said:

You aren't following the product, are you ? The story is "Is Jericho able to beat MJF in a pro-wrestling match", it's not a "blood feud" (which really is an overused term). He lost two times before, he has to prove to himself that he can beat MJF. He's got an injured elbow and MJF's finisher is the Fujiwara armbar, hence the work on the elbow and the focus on submission since Jericho already submitted once to MJF. There is no reason to have a no-DQ match here. It could be Jericho's last match ever, so there's every reason in the world to be methodical, on both part. As far as Jericho's work goes, people seem to forget that he's 50 years old. He's been doing mighty fine for his age and blows away tons of guys who at 50 were washed up shells of themselves, and that includes guys like Flair, who was legit *not good* at the same age. The old-school callbacks were very well executed. MJF is super solid and has improved a lot. The finish was actually brillant. Overall, it was a very good match, really.

Technically, Jericho lost 3 times to MJF prior to All Out:

-Full Gear in the match that allowed MJF to join Inner Circle

-Blood and Guts when Sammy Guevara quit on the Inner Circle's behalf to avoid MJF tossing Jericho down the cage

-The Fifth Labour of Jericho

I know that the Blood and Guts one sounds weird but Jericho made it a point in his promos to mention that was one of his losses to MJF so that's why I included it.

[El-P]

8 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Kenny may be a goof but there's really no one else around right now who can have a good to great match with anyone in the world in any style.

He is, but that's also why I love him so much. Maybe because I understand the "being a goof" part (which is deeper than people think, but that's another matter). I can relate.

5 minutes ago, SirEdger said:

I know that the Blood and Guts one sounds weird but Jericho made it a point in his promos to mention that was one of his losses to MJF so that's why I included it.

Well, of course but really in singles match he was 0-2.

The one brillant things that gets overlooked is that he always talked about "never wrestling in AEW again" if he lost. Which could have meant it was an exit door to still work NJPW or even him thinking he could go back eventually to WWE, which made the stip even more believable. Great use of meta here.

[sek69]

I think Jericho's IRL beliefs/personality is coloring people's opinions of his work. He's been a big part of AEW from day one, the crowd singing his theme has been a signature part of AEW shows, he's reached the "legend who can't go as good as he once did but he's still working hard for an old guy so the crowd is more accepting of it" status. 

The fact that he's at best kinda dumb and at worst he's Pro Wrestling Joe Rogan working the MAGA/anti vax grift train is souring people on his ring work and I can't say I blame them.

[El-P]

2 minutes ago, sek69 said:

I think Jericho's IRL beliefs/personality is coloring people's opinions of his work.

Totally agree.

Meanwhile, I still see people jerking off to every Lawler's punches. Sorry, but I take a simple anti-vaxx/MAGA idiot over a guy who "may" (wink wink nudge nudge) have raped underaged girls any day, in term of playing the moral card (which is always dubious when you talk about pro-wrestling to begin with). But again, another matter. Speaking of which, I did not get the "We want Tessa" chants during the show. Well, she's an awesome worker, for sure... Cursed, of course.

[KawadaSmile]

20 minutes ago, El-P said:

Believe me, Omega will have a great match with CM Punk. 

Oh, I mean trying to wrestle in the same pace as Omega. Of course they can have a good match, but Punk should not try to match Kenny's freakish pace. Again, a workrate marathon.

[NotJayTabb]

13 minutes ago, sek69 said:

This. Kenny may be a goof but there's really no one else around right now who can have a good to great match with anyone in the world in any style. 

They just hired the guy who had a good strap match against one of the worst wrestlers on the planet last year, so I can think of at least one

[El-P]

Just now, KawadaSmile said:

Oh, I mean trying to wrestle in the same pace as Omega. Of course they can have a good match, but Punk should not try to match Kenny's freakish pace. Again, a workrate marathon.

Yeah, of course, that was understood. Just wanted to get some LUV to the *real* GOAT.  

[KawadaSmile]

Just now, El-P said:

Yeah, of course, that was understood. Just wanted to get some LUV to the *real* GOAT.  

I mean she just was the MVP at the Casino Battle Royale. Shame she lost to Ruby.

[sek69]

I'm sure Bryan *can* have a good match with anyone else in the world but all we've really seen the last several years is that he can work miracles in the WWE style.

[KawadaSmile]

Paul Wight is easily one of the greatest (heh) to ever do it, man. His match against this Alex Jones/Kevin James fusion called QT Smith was fun. He's nearly 50 and can still move despite knee problems.

[El-P]

2 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

QT Smith

That's QT Marshaaaaaall for you. And if you enjoy Tay Conti's work, you can thank him for extracting the Performance Center suck out of her in a matter of a few months.  

 

[The Man in Blak]

I can definitely understand the Bret comparisons with Punk, if only because Punk and Darby lifted three or four signature moments from the Bret/1-2-3 Raw match, almost note for note. And yeah, I wouldn't say it was a great match, though that is definitely an impression colored by their decision to have Darby put over Punk clean as a sheet.

Having said that, I also don't think there's anything I saw in that match that would make me want to write off Punk any time soon. In a way, there was no perfect opponent for Punk because the expectations were astronomical; they got a "holy shit" chant before the bell even rang when Punk sat down in the middle of the ring. We're not going to get seven years back in one night.

 

[strobogo]

43 minutes ago, El-P said:

You aren't following the product, are you ? The story is "Is Jericho able to beat MJF in a pro-wrestling match", it's not a "blood feud" (which really is an overused term). He lost two times before, he has to prove to himself that he can beat MJF. He's got an injured elbow and MJF's finisher is the Fujiwara armbar, hence the work on the elbow and the focus on submission since Jericho already submitted once to MJF. There is no reason to have a no-DQ match here. It could be Jericho's last match ever, so there's every reason in the world to be methodical, on both part. As far as Jericho's work goes, people seem to forget that he's 50 years old. He's been doing mighty fine for his age and blows away tons of guys who at 50 were washed up shells of themselves, and that includes guys like Flair, who was legit *not good* at the same age. The old-school callbacks were very well executed. MJF is super solid and has improved a lot. The finish was actually brillant. Overall, it was a very good match, really.

It's literally a blood feud, bro. It was just like 2 months ago that both of them were covered in blood atop a War Games cage and MJF tried to murder Jericho. Jericho has repeatedly try to smash MJF's head in with a baseball bat. The Inner Circle vs Pinnacle has been on sight blood feud all year, with MJF/Jericho being the core and most heated part of it. I don't really have a problem with them doing chain wrestling and cute spots and shit because both suck for different reasons, but it's most definitely been a blood feud.

[El-P]

2 minutes ago, strobogo said:

but it's most definitely been a blood feud.

The Inner Circle vs Pinnacle was a blood feud. The final Jericho match vs MJF was not about that blood feud anymore. It was about Jericho proving himself he could beat MJF.