AEW TV 5/18-5/23

[sek69]

6 hours ago, El-P said:

The idea that O'Reilly is a dork is amusing, since he's basically totally out of the Bryan Danielson mold. 

Dude has some great technical skills, no doubt. My issue is that he carries himself as a dork at all times while Bryan looks like he's a moment away from kicking someone's head into the fifth row. 

I think that's where a lot of the annoyance comes from with me. It's not like he's Enzo where that's all he's got so he has to maximize it, dude can be a serious ass kicker yet we have......that. 

[Johnny Sorrow]

I loved the Hardys telling the Bucks to get out of here with their "Christian AF" bullshit. It was quick but it caught my ear.

[El-P]

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

Dude has some great technical skills, no doubt. My issue is that he carries himself as a dork at all times while Bryan looks like he's a moment away from kicking someone's head into the fifth row. 

But in the end, O'Reilly does kick the fuck out of people and make them tap out, so where's the issue ? Not everybody has to behave like "serious ass-kicker", and that includes red-head in kick pads who come from the indies.  What's funny to me is that calling this kind of guy a dork is exactly what WWE did with Bryan. Hell, Jericho in sports-entertainer mode just called him a nerd. O'Reilly has that goofy attitude while Fish is more serious, which makes a good contrast for what essentially is a team of ass-kickers. Their maneurisms as they pause is straight out of Street Fighter 2 or Street of Rage and that's a good thing, it's cool video game nerd shit.

1 hour ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

I loved the Hardys telling the Bucks to get out of here with their "Christian AF" bullshit. It was quick but it caught my ear.

The same.

[KawadaSmile]

The issue with KOR is that he isn't a very good talker, not that he is goofy. Kurt Angle managed to be one of the goofiest wrestlers ever WHILE being a legit badass, so it's not like such a character has no precedent.

[sek69]

Yeah that's probably a better explanation, Kyle wants to be a goofball who can flip the switch to a badass, and I just don't buy him as one, 

[Timbo Slice]

Kyle isn’t DANGEROUS. Kurt Angle was legit DANGEROUS.

[El-P]

Well, now let's be fair. Kyle O'Reilly is an excellent pro-wrestler. Kurt Angle and Bryan Danielson are two of the greatest pro-wrestlers ever. Comparison = not fair. 

[Timbo Slice]

Yeah, but I don’t think it’s an excellence thing. Bryan built up his tough guy bonafides in some absolute wars. The Morishima stuff alone holds a lot of water. O’Reilly never really want that way. He likes to show off his technical skills, but toughness didn’t show up nearly as often. Think that matters. 

[KawadaSmile]

59 minutes ago, El-P said:

Well, now let's be fair. Kyle O'Reilly is an excellent pro-wrestler. Kurt Angle and Bryan Danielson are two of the greatest pro-wrestlers ever. Comparison = not fair. 

Oh, absolutely. I'm not close to saying KOR is anywhere near that level, just that one CAN be portrayed as a legit badass and as a goofball at the same time in a way that one thing doesn't interfere with the other. 

I think Omega is able to pull that dynamic much better. He is the dorkiest of dorks, and while not necessarily a badass, I can see him a someone who belongs at the top just because he has FREAKISH athleticism. Keith Lee, who speaks like a parody of Wilson Fisk, comes off as a huge dork on a lot of those backstage vignettes, but you KNOW that dude can crush you once he puts his hands on you. Orange Cassidy, who I adore, is also another example of someone who can be both things - dude is lazy, has his hands in his pockets all the time, but is one of the most capable dudes around when he gets serious. Like Virgo Shaka when he opens his eyes.

KOR is a great tag worker but on single efforts he still ain't on the level of the other three, and while he CAN improve to a point where his dorkyness and perceived toughness come hand in hand, he is so far just a dork dude who is trying hard to be cool.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I don't think Kyle comes off dorky cause I remember when he was in ROH where he was REALLY dorky. His time in NXT helped him tone it down and channel it into being the entertaining, air guitar playing goofball with confidence that once he's in the ring he's gonna fuck someone up. He really developed in NXT. I couldn't stand him in ROH and I enjoyed watching him learn and improve how to project and embrace his character in NXT. 

[strobogo]

KOR's dorkiness is fine, he just need to drop the rebound lariat spot and maybe cut down on the cartoon wobbly legs later in matches.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Yeah, that rebound lariat shot looks like shit.

[NotJayTabb]

I quite like KOR's goofiness, it's not overbearing and little touches like air-guitaring the NXT tag belt or "Peter DUNE" made him stand out a little bit. He was not only in a promotion of indy darlings in NXT, he was also in a stable of four similarly sized, pretty generic wrestlers, so he needed to stand out. Roddy was the worker, Cole had the catchphrase, so KOR started amping up the goofiness to stand out and it worked.

[strobogo]

I think what's interesting to me is that his goofiness is kind of endearing as a heel, but unbearably lame as a face

[Jmare007]

16 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Like Virgo Shaka when he opens his eyes.

 

Now that's one reference I never expected to read in PWO did y'all get Saint Seiya (Cabelleros del Sodiáco for us) in Brazil in the 90's like we did?

[Embrodak]

I don’t think you can separate some of the goofiness in KOR’s performance from the fact he’s been booked kind of like a stooge since he’s been in AEW. That affects perception a lot. I know people here weren’t looking forward to Undisputed Era being back together, but at this point, can it really even be argued that things would have been much better if they’d been presented more akin to how they were presented in NXT? Nothing can smoke and mirrors away how much Cole has let himself go (he looks like less of an ass kicking athlete than anybody on the program), but having to calibrate themselves to the Bucks’ bad comedy and Orange Cassidy’s bad comedy doesn’t exactly give them a lot to work with, either.

 

On another note, if you told me in August of last year that by May, I’d be totally uninterested in Bryan Danielson and glued to the screen when Punk is on, I’d call you crazy. I do not see the logic or appeal of Blackpool Combat Club at all (and it’s amazing how Moxley somehow got even less appealing than his late-stage WWE run, but sometimes Vince accidentally saves people from themselves), whereas Punk somehow took his demonstrably lesser babyface persona and became the most compelling performer in the company doing scoop slams. I guess it helps when the top babyface whose reign you built up to for two years becomes a nonentity within a month of gaining the title, but still, wild stuff.

[KawadaSmile]

3 hours ago, Jmare007 said:

Now that's one reference I never expected to read in PWO did y'all get Saint Seiya (Cabelleros del Sodiáco for us) in Brazil in the 90's like we did?

Bruh, it's big here TO THIS DAY. It was known as Cavaleiros do Zodíaco (essentially the same name), and before Dragon Ball came and became the most popular show ever, that was the jam.

 

52 minutes ago, Embrodak said:

On another note, if you told me in August of last year that by May, I’d be totally uninterested in Bryan Danielson and glued to the screen when Punk is on, I’d call you crazy. I do not see the logic or appeal of Blackpool Combat Club at all (and it’s amazing how Moxley somehow got even less appealing than his late-stage WWE run, but sometimes Vince accidentally saves people from themselves), whereas Punk somehow took his demonstrably lesser babyface persona and became the most compelling performer in the company doing scoop slams. I guess it helps when the top babyface whose reign you built up to for two years becomes a nonentity within a month of gaining the title, but still, wild stuff.

I like those spicy takes. I don't think using BCC to feud with the JAS is necessarily good, given that we have a decent number of trios that would provide a better program (House of Spooky, Death Triangle, Christian Jurassic Express).

As for Punk, I just want him to become the asshole he truly IS.

[sek69]

25 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

I like those spicy takes. I don't think using BCC to feud with the JAS is necessarily good

I'm not disagreeing, but at the same time I'm excited for  the brawl at the PPV more than anything else at this point. I don't really care how it happened, I just want to see some motherfuckers beat the piss out of each other. 

[Embrodak]

1 hour ago, KawadaSmile said:

Bruh, it's big here TO THIS DAY. It was known as Cavaleiros do Zodíaco (essentially the same name), and before Dragon Ball came and became the most popular show ever, that was the jam.

 

I like those spicy takes. I don't think using BCC to feud with the JAS is necessarily good, given that we have a decent number of trios that would provide a better program (House of Spooky, Death Triangle, Christian Jurassic Express).

As for Punk, I just want him to become the asshole he truly IS.

Is it really so spicy? I think there’s growing agreement, at least on the edges, that Page has been kind of a bust as champion. He had those fantastic matches with Danielson, whose heel work outshone him, then an unmemorable match with Archer that both wasn’t a Texas death match and went 11/10 on the brutality despite being a relatively cold feud that Lambert was involved in for no reason, then a nothing feud with Cole, who was fresh off losing to a comedy midcarder at the time. He doesn’t really carry himself like a champ (kinda subjective, but Omega, who I’m not even a fan of, always had a champion’s swagger), struggled to get out of the shadow of the MJF-Punk feud for most of his reign, hasn’t had a promo as good as his “cowboy shit” one since winning the title, and just overall has not done much to make the belt look prestigious.

Re: BCC, I love Danielson, I love Regal, I’m sure they’re having fun, but I don’t associate either of them with Moxley’s lame “death match guy” schtick and don’t think it gels especially well. And JAS got tiring after like three weeks, like most Jericho stuff nowadays, and AEW has had so many big multi-man clusterfucks that I don’t really care to see another.

[sek69]

I think everyone, even Punk himself probably, knows that he's a natural heel and is 1000% better in that role. The issue is there is no way he could have come in as anything but a conquering hero to the AEW Galaxy (lol see what I did there) and have it make sense. I have no doubt we're going to get a big Punk heel run sooner than later so it's just smart business to ride the wave of him being the top babyface as far as they can take it. 

[Jmare007]

Wardlow vs MJF is the only feud worth a PPV match. I'd be shocked if Punk vs Page isn't a MOTYC but I feel like we need like 3 more weeks of build to really make it feel like a big fight. And every other match feels thrown together to fill the card. Granted, a lot of good/interesting matchups, but no "I gotta pay money to see it" feel.

[KawadaSmile]

Which is a yellow sign because WARDLOW vs MJF should be a squash, essentially. Maybe have a minutes of Max in control after 10 Guy gets involved, but it should 100% be Big Ward kicking ass. Dude took lashes without blinking, Max is fucked. I prayed on his downfall and I am going to relish on it happening.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Maybe it's just me being me, the guy who pretty much likes everything, but the PPV looks great. The JAS vs BCC/ Eddie's gang brawl is gonna be awesome, Hardy's vs Bucks should be fun, shit...after tonight's Rampage I'm stoked to see Jade vs Anna Jay.

[MoS]

Yeah Page's reign has been great and I think it's the opposite of people agreeing he is bust as champ. When he started his riegn, everyone doubted him cuz the money is in the chase and the story was him reaching the top, not staying there, blah blah blah, but he has consistently delivered, and he absolutely felt like the babyface ace when he told Adam Cole to look at him and to get his affairs in order. At no point in time does he look like he doesn't belong in the ring with Punk, and the Takeshita match just showed how good he is as a wrestler. There are only so many hot matches you can have, with business doing well, without being a legit champ. His quarters always does well with the younger 18-34 demo - outperforming Punk v. MJF in the quarters btw - and for all the complaints about his feuds being cold, his matches always have a lot of heat. He is going to beat Punk and draw another big number at Double or Nothing, cuz he is great. 

You are going to like BCC if you do not like Mox. As someone who loves him, I have found everything compelling. BCC v. JAS is a natural feud, simple and logical, and it works. Bet it makes the crowd go crazy too. 

[El-P]

On 5/20/2022 at 2:46 AM, KawadaSmile said:

Like Virgo Shaka when he opens his eyes.

Which never made any sense to me ! I mean so we're told he's keeping his eyes close so with one sense not working he can focus more of his energy but then again when he opens his eyes then he's getting even more powerful except Ikki forced him to open his eyes so now Shaka is vulnerable ok WTF ?!?! I mean, Shaka was still the coolest this side of Saga, but still, that shit made no sense whatsoever. He was probably an anti-vaxx naturopath at heart too, with all the new-age bullshit in his house.

11 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Which is a yellow sign because WARDLOW vs MJF should be a squash, essentially. Maybe have a minutes of Max in control after 10 Guy gets involved, but it should 100% be Big Ward kicking ass. Dude took lashes without blinking, Max is fucked. I prayed on his downfall and I am going to relish on it happening.

And yet, it should not, because you don't squash a main event star like MJF. So yeah, it's tricky.

3 hours ago, MoS said:

Yeah Page's reign has been great and I think it's the opposite of people agreeing he is bust as champ. When he started his riegn, everyone doubted him cuz the money is in the chase and the story was him reaching the top, not staying there, blah blah blah, but he has consistently delivered, and he absolutely felt like the babyface ace when he told Adam Cole to look at him and to get his affairs in order.

Totally agree. Although I must say, he does not come off as big of a figure as Omega did, but that was to be expected. It's still his first reign and he was unproven before. The guy is still growing. But he has totally succeeded as a World Champ in match quality, promos and staying over after the chase was done.

Rampage definitely was a B show, but that main event was excellent, as it should have been. Regal did call Jericho "sunshine".

Ruby Soho is gonna get to the finals, and honestly this choice is meh. Yes, the Riho match was very good and by far her best match in AEW but guess what, Riho does that with everybody. Statlander ain't winning. Enjoyed the match with Red Velvet though, I liked the focus on big power moves by Statlander, that's a good game for her, and Velvet is even more fun as a heel. Poor Anna Jay not even acknowledging her BFF becoming an annoying bitch and now is gonna be served to Jade on the pre-show. Damn, girl. She can't even slap Stu Grayson around anymore.  Hopefully she gets a bit of focus after that point.

The Men of the Year / Sammy & Tay feud needs to end. They have obviously booked themselves in a hole, and I say that having enjoyed the matches and promos a lot. But this is soooo confusing now, it's like a Kevin Sullivan angle from 96 with heels vs heels and heels acting babyface before acting heels again.The fact the belt really could not be broken and then Kazarian shows up... with the heels, was the icing on the cake. Yeah, so WCW, it was funny as hell. Do the mixed tag with Ethan & PVZ vs Sammy & Tay and move on ! 

12 hours ago, Jmare007 said:

Granted, a lot of good/interesting matchups, but no "I gotta pay money to see it" feel.

The PPV will probably have lots of great stuff, but yeah, the global build to me as been the weakest. It will take *a lot* from the Bucks to have that great match they want to have, but then again, they are the Bucks. Very interested in what approach they will have wth this one. Deeb vs Rosa should be very good but could also be kinda heatless. Ruby Soho in the final of the Owen is not something I wanted to see, she has been quite underwhelming to me, and Baker is not gonna carry like Riho did. 

The NJPW PPV build is gonna be super interesting, because NJPW doesn't build their major card the same way a US company would, and I doubt the NJPW crew will appear every week to build the thing.