AEW TV - August 3/5, 2022

[El-P]

14 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Funny how that's something that never changes in wrestling. The Great Muta got over doing things no one (in the US at least) had seen done before. Dave when talking about Rey's 20th WWE anniversary mentioned how Konnan got him in to AAA by telling Pena "look I know you don't think this little guy is anything special but he can do things no one else in the world has done before"

We see it today too as guys like Vikingo drop jaws and immediately become "I'll buy a show if this guy on on the card" level. 

Absolutely.
This goes hand in hand with one of the most off-base criticism that comes back from time to time : big guys shouldn't fly around, because then why should people care about smaller guys doing acrobatics. Which on paper sounds pretty fair, but the issue is that it isn't rooted in any kind of reality. By this time, after seeing Muto, Vader, Hugh Morrus, Bam Bam do moonsaults, seeing 2 Cold Scorpio, who wasn't a small guy by any stretch of the imagination, do stuff that would still look impressive today, see Lance Archer walk the rope into a moonsault and other big dudes do tope con hilos and such, guys like Rey, Juventud, Psychosis, the X-division guys and today the Lucha Brothers, Sammy, Darby and Vikingo really should get no reactions anymore. And of course, that's not what happened, ever. There's NO occurence of a promotion anywhere where a big guy doing a big flying spot has hurt the smaller guys doing flying spots. It doesn't exist. It's a fictitious idea based on "pro-wrestling should/shouldn't be", as opposed to what actually happens.

And yeah, fucking Vikingo. I saw that Triplemania match the other day, and that guy showed up Fénix in term of "How in the hell he is doing this ?". Ponder that for a minute. And now, Komander is gonna be around more I guess too, he's another one.

[strobogo]

Christian is a great pro wrestler. Being a great pro wrestler doesn't mean 5 star matches every time out. Christian's main value to AEW is as a coach. His in ring stuff is a bonus. Cant expect anyone to have a great match with Matt Hardy in 2022 under any circumstances, though.

[El-P]

53 minutes ago, strobogo said:

 Christian's main value to AEW is as a coach. 

He's not been hired as a coach though (unlike Madison Rayne for instance, who apparently will also work from time to time, but she definitely is a coach first). He was presented as "a HOF pro-wrestler" and a big star. From that standpoint he has not delivered as much as I think he would have.

I'm sure he's helping plenty backstage though, and he sure would be super useful in that role.

[Embrodak]

Christian may not be an official coach, but the younger guys he works with can learn a hell of a lot more working with him than they will working with each other. Jungle Boy showed some degree of passion and personality for the first time possibly ever a few weeks ago, and that happened because Christian knew to set him up for it it, as well as how to do so. 

[NintendoLogic]

Complaining about Christian taking TV time away from younger talent misses the point because the whole reason he's on TV is to get younger talent over. The point of the Jungle Boy feud is to make him someone the audience has an emotional connection with as opposed to simply liking him because he does cool moves. It's basically a rehash of the Bret Hart/Jerry Lawler feud.

[El-P]

See how it goes ? I just make a comment about Christian Cage's stint being underwhelming to me, and it goes to "Christian Cage bashing" to "complaining about Christian Cage taking the time away from younger talent". 

I said nothing like this either. I said there's probably 50 people I'd rather watch right now, I never said I only wanted to watch the younger talents. I know what the point of the feud is.

[NintendoLogic]

I know you didn't say that, which is why my comment wasn't addressed to you.

[El-P]

35 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

I know you didn't say that, which is why my comment wasn't addressed to you.

Ok, sorry about that.

Overall, like I said I think it's a good feud for Jungle Boy. He needs to win that one clean.

[The Thread Killer]

My complaint is not so much about Christian Cage being on TV. I think he has been great in this role. My complaint is seeing a Christian Cage/Matt Hardy match on television in 2022. I don’t care what the rationale is I think it’s unnecessary, especially when Matt Hardy can barely move.

And I agree with the sentiment that this only really works if in the end, Jungle Boy goes over clean and comes out of this on the other side as a stronger performer, ready for a bigger push. If he just ends up exactly where he was when this whole thing started, then this was just a pointless angle. I think it’s time to pull the trigger with him. Christian certainly will not lose any face or credibility by losing a match or two at this stage in his career.

[Timbo Slice]

Mance is laying in those punches, man. This has been a fun opener. 

[Timbo Slice]

Some sloppiness, but I’d see that match again. 

[C.S.]

On 8/4/2022 at 5:18 PM, sek69 said:

I think the issue is that everyone assumed that Christian was some underrated star waiting to happen that was just overshadowed by Edge in WWF/E, but the truth is he's what he is: a solid hand, nothing more nothing less. What he's doing here is the same as when he was the NWA champ back in the TNA days, not terrible by any means but not out of this world great either. 

(Sorry @C.S.)

These vicious lies are completely unacceptable. 

[C.S.]

Orange Cassidy is a future pillar for the company and future AEW World Champion.

Jay Lethal's ceiling is career midcarder - and he's a sex pest to boot.

Lethal beating Cassidy should never, ever happen. Pretty clear why that's bad booking.

Now, if Christian had beaten Cassidy, that would've been brilliant.

[Stiva]

Christian/Hardy wasn’t great but it had a valid reason for happening at the very least. Jobbing Cassidy to Lethal, even though it’s setting Lethal up for Wardlow, a match nobody believes he’ll actually win, is definitely the stranger match. They could have went with Lethal vs Trent for a similar outcome. I really hope Orange isn’t heading down the Darby route where TK thinks he’s bulletproof no matter what so he maybe jobs a bit too much. 

[Johnny Sorrow]

Nice to see how relevant Christian is as evidenced by all y'all posting about him. He fucking rules.

[Johnny Sorrow]

OC is bulletproof right now because they're doing the OC/Best Friends rehab to make them a serious threat, while keeping the fun. The tye dye, Jane, Trent and Chuck being presented as threats in ring, it's all part of the OC push. The most important part of the push besides " Jane" is OC doing his gimmick as mind games, and the announcers have put that over every OC match. He's on the fast track .

[Johnny Sorrow]

I mean, you can still be a heel while being awesome. Just put some stank on it like the MX did.

Playboy Buddy Rose and Doug Summers could have eventually been a babyface team overcoming the odds, and would have only changed how they sold for the heels. All their moves would have gotten pops . AWA Fantasy Booking time: Rose and Summers could have been babyface champs against Zybysko and Saito.

[sek69]

Mox vs Mancer is a hoot and a half.

[sek69]

Man, QT without a beard looks like a discount Alex Jones.

[sek69]

Jade vs Madison should bang, can't wait to see Jade against someone with experience

[El-P]

2 hours ago, sek69 said:

Jade vs Madison should bang, can't wait to see Jade against someone with experience

The thing is, Madison really shines as a heel character. She can work babyface, but that's not where you're gonna get the essence of Madison's work, which is all in details and maneurisms and reactions as a heel (not to mention promo work and angles, she went through years of making the best out of questionable TNA stuff and has been fun as heel in contemporary IMPACT, Locker Room Talk was always a terrific backstage segment, her team with Tenille Dashwood was tons of fun too). I don't think Leila Grey was a great fit for her, as really, after the entrance was done (cool theme song, great Red Velvet impersonation), she did not look very good, she was out of place many time, she showed no intensity to the point even the announcers talked about it. 

Mance vs Mox was a fun little match, but also by far the lesser Mox match in a long while. Ol' Mancer, well, he's basically the guy I remember from MLW, and by that I mean, whatever. Maybe his promo style and garbage bumping can get him over, but I don't look forward to more of him at all, sorry. Never did much for me and apparently still doesn't.

Takeshita getting a quickie win reeked of "Fuck, we gave him a title match but he never won on TV" booking. That's the thing about this match, on paper it looks awesome and probably will be, but Takeshita has never won a big match and there's basically no way Claudio is losing, so that's another loss after a great match for Takeshita. This guy has gotten organically over in the shortest time more than anyone, but he's basically is the guy who loses great matches. He should actually *win* that title really, or the TNT title instead of that big powerbombing oaf, because the audience is already ready for him.

Tony Neese & Mark Sterling have low-key became one of my favorite act in the company. Want more of Josh Woods, who apparently is still alive after *that* spot (so is Keith lee, but really he was cushioned by Woods).

That being said, there's a reason Rampage gets killed in the ratings. For all the talk about not being a B-show, it has absolutely became a B-show. A fun B-show, I like the randomness of it sometimes, but a B-show nonetheless. One year ago the debut show had Kenny Omega losing the IMPACT title to Christan Cage, which was huge because it was Omega's first loss, of a title no less, since he won the AEW title from Mox after a long reign of terror. Now we get Josh Woods & Tony Neese in the main event, Mance Warner showing up, a squash thrown on TV for a guy who hasn't won a match but stil gets a title shot for the ROH title... It absolutely feels like Thunder in 1999. They probably would need to re-think their strategy for this second show, including make it look a bit different.

[NintendoLogic]

4 hours ago, sek69 said:

Man, QT without a beard looks like a discount Alex Jones.

With the beard, he's a dead ringer for The Gambler. I'm not sure which is worse.

[Matt D]

Crossposting from DVDVR:

• I don't have a ton of thoughts about Mance vs Mox. It feels like a good entry into Mox's 2022, just another match on the list. Mance kind of comes off as the Rock'n'Roll RPMs of tough guys, the sort that could have a great run in Puerto Rico or be the center of a tag team division in Central States, good hand, nice variety to see once or twice, but.. What stood out the most was how Mox chained together offense and violence in the last couple of minutes. That was just nuts and really defines who and what he is, right down to having to switch the arm. I do wonder if this match was about protecting him going into a loss on Weds?
• I pretty low on Takeshita but I appreciate how genuine he comes off as and how he appreciated the fans here. And it's not like his stuff doesn't look good and impactful. It's just the pacing. I'm glad he got to have a moment like that even if he's not my guy.
• Grey vs Rayne was tough. Let's talk about the chinlock. That's what drew the first puppies chant I've heard in years. The problem was threefold. First, the fans haven't built up emotional attachment to Grey or Rayne yet. If it was Athena or Ruby working from underneath and even Hogan or Velvet on top, it would have been fine. Grey did a good job working the crowd throughout it and it didn't matter. Second, she came into it too soon. They had to wait until the commercial break was over to come out of it and if they had gone into it even a few seconds later, it would have helped. Third, people suck, right? I did love Stoke grooving to Grey's entrance music.
• The main definitely overdelivered. 2022 Tony Nese is the world's best possible Seth Rollins. He understands where he belongs on a card, how his athletic ability an execution best helps the company, and does what he's supposed to do in order to get things over and be entertaining instead of just trying to spam great workrate matches or whatever. If I'm going to watch guy with abs do an overwrought laugh, I definitely want it to be Nese. The story was smart as it was all about keeping Lee out of the match, right until they weren't able to anymore. Sterling goes through all the motions and does it correctly but doesn't have the spark of brilliance. I bet if Stoke was in there, after the wrench shot (which came right after the "Whose House?" bit, he would have done a "Whose Wrench?" thing and it would have been awesome. Basically, he shows up and does his job and is effective, but isn't transcendent. Woods looked like a beast at the end with that German, and Keith looked like a beast in blocking it for so long. Win win (unless you're the table). This is the best environment for Swerve where all of his goofy stuff can just fit into the chaos. AEW is smart in not doing street fights more than every few months because they don't feel overdone and almost always deliver.

[strobogo]

I can't imagine being low on Takeshita. That dude has been fucking awesome every instance I've seen him in AEW.

[Matt D]

4 minutes ago, strobogo said:

I can't imagine being low on Takeshita. That dude has been fucking awesome every instance I've seen him in AEW.

Only matches I've liked so far are Drake and Mox. He had the worst Kingston match I've seen all year, though that was definitely Eddie's fault.

Here's my write up of that from SC:

Spoiler

MD: We talk all the time about how Kingston is the wrestler who understands the emotional underpinning of 90s AJPW and how to inject that back into his matches without it just being about hard shots and head drops. And I've talked plenty about some of the best, most striking things in wrestling are when contrast is invoked. The fact that the true heir to the pillars is a beer-gut wielding smart mouth working class thug from Yonkers makes it go from "working" to "magic." There were spots of that here, like when Takeshita makes the decision to hit Kingston in the ropes instead of allowing for a clean break even when Eddie's going "We're good. We're good" because he wanted his nice tribute match with the rightful inheritor of Jumbo's jumping knee. Or when they hit their limits and Eddie fell forward draping himself over the younger Takeshita exhausted and bonded in combat whether they wanted to be or not, a brief breather before they'd push forward into a finish.

But there's always a chance things can go wrong. There's always a chance that restraint and vision can stumble in the face of two like minds. You get two aficionados in the room together and that contrast may go out the window. You get me and Eric talking about John Nord and it's going to be full of a sort of hyperbole, all the verbal high spots, that you wouldn't get it if was Eric and Phil. And these two? They just couldn't contain themselves. I haven't seen a Kingston AEW match with so much delayed selling and stuff that didn't matter at all. We're in a day and age where half the roster is injured, where there's so much value in the Neo-Brooks-ian method of making every move a struggle, making every move matter, and here we have a match just blatantly full of move inflation, where it would take three shots to accomplish one thing, where in any other match, it wouldn't. They weren't small moves either. Eddie goes for an exploder on the apron, eats a German on the apron, and is right ready to hit an exploder on the floor a moment later. This match was full of that, and I get what they were trying to do, but it was all for a one-night, one-time gain. The crowd was into it, clapping up both wrestlers at various points, and the finishing stretch was hot, but they could have a better match doing half the things and registering them twice as much. They could have had an 89 AJPW match and it would have been way better than their 95 AJPW match and it would have worked so much better in the context of the promotion and Takeshita's place in the hierarchy (which is the bit of AJPW logic they missed completely, actually). Some matches needed an editor. This one pretty much needed not to happen. There was no just hope for it. Ah well.