WWE Elimination Chamber 2023

[Timbo Slice]

He’s also talked about how Sami is also a big merch draw previously, and I think when he throws around the ratings quip it’s with the understanding that for the time being, Sami is on level ground. 

[El-P]

Imagine if they don't have Cody. He did not came back from AEW. And they don't have the Rock either. Whoever gets Roman at Mania, I dunno. But for the sake of the argument.

Now, apparently this storyline is not about Sami & Roman and it's so deep and intricate and shit. Ok. So they do the *exact* same booking. I'm pretty sure that then, most people would disagree with Sami not getting the title at Mania.

And now, imagine that Cody is not as over as he is. He's not rejected, but he's getting so-so reactions and the ratings don't move at all for his segments. But he's still put in the Mania main event because he's Cody.

Again, this storyline is not about Sami & Roman and it's so deep and intricate and all. Ok. And they do the *exact* same booking. Again, I think most people would then disagree with Sami not getting the title at Mania. Or at very least the match.

Maybe I'm wrong, but to me most of the justifications based on "oh but it's not the storyline, it makes more sense this way" and all that good stuff only derives from the fact you have Cody being over as hell too right now, so in the end they really aren't about the storyline itself (I find none to be convincing on that matter, sorry) but rather a defense of the booking overall because the context right now is just super positive for WWE in term of ratings, hype and attendance.

[Timbo Slice]

Hell, 6/3/94 is the greatest match with a questionable booking decision of all time. By the time Kawada pinning Misawa meant something, the company was on the downturn. 

[Benbeeach]

21 minutes ago, Timbo Slice said:

Hell, 6/3/94 is the greatest match with a questionable booking decision of all time. By the time Kawada pinning Misawa meant something, the company was on the downturn. 

“You don’t have your Top champion lose at the Budokan, you do it at the Dome show…3 years later”

[Robert S]

There were a bunch of huge fuck-ups in the layout of the match re. basic logic:

(1) The second ref ran if while Jimmy Uso was beating up Sami (i.e. he had to see Jimmy doing stuff while he was running) and still counted the pin and did not throw Jimmy out of the arena.

(2) After the second ref was knocked out no further ref ran even after something like five minutes have passed. Did all the other referees already go home?

(3) Why did KO wait UNTIL the match was over to run in?

I realize that the third thing is just a normal post-2000 wrestling thing (i.e. the faces have no friends) but with the fans shouting for Owens after both ref bumps, it got put really into the spotlight here.

Re. the result: I agree with Matt, they completely booked themselves into a corner (though in addition to having the hometown guy lose in the main event, having two big screwjobs is something that could have killed a town a couple of decades back). I think there were ways to get to where to want to (Roman vs. Cody at Mania with Cody - I guess - ending Roman's reign) and still somewhat resolve the Sami angle without shitting on the fans for believing in the face. One example would have been a six man tag in Montreal (Sami, KO & Jey vs. Roman, Jimmy & Sikoa) with Sami pinning Jimmy, a version of that tag at Mania without Roman and Sami vs. Roman at whatever the next PPV is after Mania. Or Sami & KO vs. Usos in Montreal and the six man with Roman on Mania night 1. Alternatively, they could have dragged out the turn until the Raw after Mania (with Roman somehow blaming Sami for the title loss).

[KawadaSmile]

2 minutes ago, Robert S said:

(3) Why did KO wait UNTIL the match was over to run in?

Because they are not on good terms. Sami punched KO in the balls and gave him a Helluva Kick at Survivor Series. Plus he didn't really prevent Owens from getting that post-match beatdown at the Rumble, did he? 

[El-P]

24 minutes ago, Robert S said:

(1) The second ref ran if while Jimmy Uso was beating up Sami (i.e. he had to see Jimmy doing stuff while he was running) and still counted the pin and did not throw Jimmy out of the arena.

Yeah, that one was terrible, NJPW level of dumbfuck refereeing. The guy literally slides in as Jimmy is leaving the ring, and he does not even do a gesture of "go the fuck away !" to him and instead goes straight into the count. Marty Asami has nothing on this guy.

20 minutes ago, Robert S said:

(3) Why did KO wait UNTIL the match was over to run in?

Because they needed a post-match feel-good moment and babyface pop after Sami got beat in his hometown in front of his family. That's basically it. Whether that makes any sense or not storyline-wise is totally secondary. 

[NintendoLogic]

There was nothing questionable about Misawa going over on 6/3/94. Kawada supplanting Misawa as the company ace was never in the cards, nor should it have been. As for Owens, it shouldn't come as a surprise that he wouldn't immediately come running to the aid of the man who punched him in the balls to prove his loyalty to the Bloodline at Survivor Series and then stood by and did nothing while the Bloodline were beating the shit out of him at the Rumble. Sami only had a change of heart after Roman crossed the line by ordering him to join in. By the same token, Owens only intervened when he thought Roman and Jimmy were taking things too far. It wasn't a full-fledged reconciliation, just KO saving Sami from an excessive beatdown and then walking out. There's still a ways to go before fences are fully mended between the two. I know the phrase is a running joke among wrestling fans, but this is an instance where we really ought to let things play out and see where it goes.

[Perfectly Straightedge]

19 hours ago, El-P said:

Yeah, that one was terrible, NJPW level of dumbfuck refereeing. The guy literally slides in as Jimmy is leaving the ring, and he does not even do a gesture of "go the fuck away !" to him and instead goes straight into the count. Marty Asami has nothing on this guy.

Because they needed a post-match feel-good moment and babyface pop after Sami got beat in his hometown in front of his family. That's basically it. Whether that makes any sense or not storyline-wise is totally secondary. 

Just going to add the same reason a second referee literally watched a DQ happen before his eyes when Jimmy attacked Sami then still counted the pin attempt for Roman. 

I mean wrestling has always not made sense when you broke it down. The whole idea of an Irish whip is stupid. Why would someone run full speed into ropes. Like do an Irish whip in real life and tell me how that goes for you.

Like if everyone hates the bloodline then why did everyone in the locker room let Sami get beaten down. Why would Jey randomly appear from the crowd. I mean wrestling has never made sense it’s just that to really enjoy it that you have to know it’s a work and look past all that. 

[Robert S]

It's about being able to suspend your disbelief. A ref lying down for ten minutes motionless without anyone checking on him, a ref not hearing a chairshot happening behind his back, an Irish whip, that's stuff you are conditioned to simply accept. But a ref not seeing (or ignoring) what is happening right in front of him, I don't know, that's as bad as imaginary handgrenades or instantaneous hypnosis.