AEW Full Gear 2023 - 11/18 - Billy Boy Or The Mone Maker

[Jmare007]

The main event was fine but I hated the angle they ran for it.

The angle in itself was so stupid the only way it would've been worth it would've been White winning and setting up MJF getting the strap back in his hometown -have Joe force White to accept a rematch so he can get his shot or something-, but was way too over the top for Max to actually win it.

It's one thing if he got hit with a chair once in the pre show and had to sell damage, but the Gunns pillmanize his leg, dude goes to the hospital and has to wrestle for 30 fucking minutes while having to sell such a devastating injury. Him and White-O did their best under for such an unnecessary handicap, I also question them having to go sooo damn long. If they do 7-12 minutes, the leg stuff feels more meaningful and the crowd probably gets even more invested. I agree that MJF had a dope babyface performance though, there's that I guess.

It was fucking hilarious to see 10 people trying to stop Max from getting to the ring and wrestle when 5 minutes before that, a guy with an even worse injury made his entrance to take his place in the match and no one from AEW management gave a single fuck (shit, they made the match official for fuck sakes :lol:).

[SirEdger]

5 hours ago, sek69 said:

That's what he said, but no one's mentioned before about it being for a new championship, perhaps he meant it like winning the G1. 

I only was able to watch the main event so I only caught a few glimpses of stuff happening here and there on the show via X/Twitter. But I think the way Tony Khan explains it is that basically, he's doing his version of the AJPW Triple Crown title with the AEW Continental Championship, ROH World Championship and NJPW Strong Openweight Championship.

 

[Mr Wrestling 2000]

the inclusion of the NJPW belt is cool, i wonder if there will be a njpw wrestler in it.

The deathmatch was absolutly bananas, i dont think ive ever seen a piledriver on to the baracade before nor do i want to see it again. The main event, i was ultimatly sad to not be breathing with the switchblade but i was super into the match melodrama. No effin devil though that was a bummer.

[KawadaSmile]

MJF vs Jay White felt a bit like Okada vs MiSu to me. In both cases the champ did put out a good babyface performance, being worked by the challenger (prior to the match, in Max's case) and selling the grueling pain, but at the end of the day all of the limb work became a detriment to the actual match because you can't just have a 10-15 minute main event which fits the story better.

White kinda looks worse now than he did before. 

[DMJ]

- Having not seen the match, I'm not sure my criticisms really hold water but all across social media, many people are complaining about Jay White looking like a chump by losing the match after MJF had suffered a serious injury and had also already wrestled earlier in the night.

One of my all-time favorite matches/endings to a supershow was when Sting got attacked early on an episode of Clash of the Champions, went to the hospital, made the big superhero comeback, but then lost his US Championship (I think) to Rick Rude, who got a lucky break by basically falling into/shoulder-tackling Sting's damaged knee. The loss was protected because Sting got to show he was super tough and willing to defend his title just hours after getting jumped and Rick Rude got the W and the title and, now that he was the champion, he was now the guy with the upperhand and champion's advantage (which made him more dangerous) in future matches even without winning the title cleanly.

Why not book this similarly? Jay White gets the tainted W after MJF shows a ton of heart. Now you've got MJF chasing the title and you can put the title on him in a major episode of Dynamite or Collision or, hell, even one of those meaningless Battle of the Belts shows. Jay White has been doing a phenomenal job over the past 6 months and this just seems like such a big loss for him and with no clear future direction. 

- I was very glad to hear Swerve won. He's another guy, along with Prince Nana, who has had an incredible 6 months or so and needs a prolonged push as reward for it. Not sure where he goes from here, but he has plenty of momentum to carry him into his next feud. Not sure what they should do with Page going forward, but he's 32 and, IMO, he's been written off way too early. 
 

[Boss Rock]

Enjoyed the main event but it was definitely too long. The fact that Max went through with the top rope elbow even after the table had broken was insane. Terrific face performance overall. As for Jay, I personally think he will be fine. Max still needed to use the ring to beat him and the entire feud had been very one-sided in Jay's favor anyway. I was a bit surprised there was no devil appearance, though. The devil costing Jay the match probably makes a little more sense.

Haven't seen the entire show, but enjoyed what I saw. Mox-OC definitely fell short of their previous effort but was still a really good sprint. The ladder match was a terrific spotfest as expected. The TBS three-way was solid and Julia winning was a pleasant surprise. Jericho/Kenny-Bucks was in a very disadvantageous position but still delivered (childish heel Bucks are also probably the best Bucks). And the Texas death match, holy hell. The first five minutes were absolutely brutal and they just kept going. I think I'd have Swerve beat OC for the International Title and have him and Page face off one more time in a cage at Revolution.

Not sure how I feel with another title even as part of a Triple Crown, but I'm also a sucker for multiple belts representing one championship.

[NintendoLogic]

MJF got the win after a low blow and using the diamond ring as a weapon. That's as protected as Jay White needs to be. He's a heel, he doesn't need to look strong or credible in defeat.

I enjoyed the main event for the most part. My problem with Jay's matches as a whole is how formless they are. I don't get much of a sense of build or escalation, it's just a bunch of stuff happening until the finish. I also find his offensive repertoire to be rather dull. Having MJF's injured leg as a target mitigated both of those tendencies to a large degree. It absolutely did not need to go 30, but it also didn't feel quite that long, so I'll give them that.

[strobogo]

I think it's time to ban ladder matches. There's just no safe way to bump on ladders, to stand on ladders on a surface that bounces when anyone even walks, let alone multiple people running around and bumping. The bar has been raised so high for holy shit quotient that dudes have to come up with more and more high risk or just straight brutal spots, but even the basic ladder match spots are needlessly dangerous and damaging. 

[Robert S]

Good to see that Adam Cole adheres to Towel Day, even if he is half-a-year off.

[strobogo]

Opener six man was fine, never going to be interested in Christian vs Edge in 202x, but Christian's stuff with his new son was great. Surprised Ric didn't take an actual bump.

OC/Mox was also fine, I know real injuries changed things, and the easiest and most predictable thing would have been to have Moxley win and do whatever was planned for him before he got KO'd at Grand Slam. I feel like putting the belt back on OC kind of diminished the story of the first reign and the Mox match, which despite the loss felt like it elevated OC to the next level way more than this win over Mox. Putting the International Championship back on OC actually felt like a downgrade, as that whole run and it taking the guy basically portrayed as the ultimate killer in AEW history to be the one to beat him, completely felt like him moving up to the main event. 

Storm/Shida was pretty solid, the finish was actually quite lol and somehow completely worked for what Storm has been doing with the Timeless character.
 

Already made my thoughts on the ladder match, I just think it is time to retire the gimmick match for the sake of talent having to perform in them, especially as ladder matches are pretty much always used as a crutch to get a bunch of people on the card and do a stunt show.

TBS match was pretty good. For sure the best I've seen Skye Blue look in the ring. Really neat finish.

Swerve/Hangman was fucking nuts. The blood drinking spot was so wild, Jerry Lynn must have been in the back like what the fuck man. That's going to go down as an all timer AEW match for sure. From the Nana dance troupe to Page not even doing an entrance to just immediately hit the ring and start the fight, to the violence and hatred. Pure spectacle from start to finish. Really don't get the point of the Cage run in, though. The whole thing was to get Nana in position for the table spot, but there was zero need for Cage's involvement to get there considering how much Nana had been involved in the match up to that point anyway. I also don't think you need to "protect" Hangman when the finish already involves the distraction from the Nana table bump, then a fucking cinder block, followed by choking a dude to death with a chain.

Nothing could have followed the deathmatch, and I guess it was admirable that it was Kenny/Jericho and the Bucks to be put into that position instead of the women or mid card talent that need the boost. It was pretty bleh considering Jericho was doing the majority of the work for his side, but it did pick up quite a bit in the finishing stretch. The Bucks taking some time off is probably a good thing as I can't recall them really taking any time off since AEW started. I'm a big supporter of particularly top tier talent taking time off from time to time.

MJF vs White-o was very sports entertainment, and while I can't fully buy into MJF as face because I'm constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop and either he or Cole turn on each other, it's hard to argue that the crowds are 100% in on it and hot crowds buying in make everything better in any era. 

[Robert S]

The Swerve vs. Page match went way too long IMO. If you do a 0.9 blade job on the Muta scale and by the end of the match, most of the blood is washed away by sweat, you have gone too long. They also did the more gruesome stuff at the beginning (or at least during the first half) of the match like the stapler or the blood drinking. The thing in the end was more gimmick-y like the cinder block (come on, if it basically crumbles in your hands, the gimmicking is way too obvious). And yeah, this match did not need Brian Cage - actually no match on this planet really needs Brian Cage, come to think of it.

[Timbo Slice]

3 hours ago, strobogo said:

MJF vs White-o was very sports entertainment, and while I can't fully buy into MJF as face because I'm constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop and either he or Cole turn on each other, it's hard to argue that the crowds are 100% in on it and hot crowds buying in make everything better in any era. 

MJF believes strongly in traditional aspects of wrestling because he understands how much it brings to the table more than the pure sport type Ace a lot of people want for AEW but there hasn’t been a reign with that title more impactful than MJF’s, which essentially proves his point. 

[strobogo]

10 hours ago, Timbo Slice said:

MJF believes strongly in traditional aspects of wrestling because he understands how much it brings to the table more than the pure sport type Ace a lot of people want for AEW but there hasn’t been a reign with that title more impactful than MJF’s, which essentially proves his point. 

He says all that stuff yet still does flips and dives and crazy apron/floor/stairs/tables bumps, has the signature moves that can only be done with video game logic and positioning, back and forth big move offense near falls stuff that all the pure sport type ace guys do. When I said it was very sports entertainmenty, I meant less the moves and spots in the match and more the angle surrounding it, the HBK style ringside drama, Stone Cold MJF stealing and driving an ambulance back to the arena, etc.

[Embrodak]

I quite like MJF as a worker, I think it’s probably better for him as a draw that he wrestles sparingly but I would like to see him against a wider variety of opponents.

Really dislike MJF as a face, though. It’s over with the crowd, can’t deny that, but even as a “bad guy who is consciously trying to act like a babyface” postmodern meta thing, it’s forced.

[El-P]

On 11/21/2023 at 9:14 PM, Timbo Slice said:

MJF believes strongly in traditional aspects of wrestling because he understands how much it brings to the table more than the pure sport type Ace a lot of people want for AEW but there hasn’t been a reign with that title more impactful than MJF’s, which essentially proves his point. 

Considering AEW is the coldest it's ever been (and yes, there are outside reasons for this too, one of which and maybe the most important being WWE being hot again), that's a tough one to support. And don't get me wrong, I have enjoyed MJF's reign a whole lot, but this match and the Wembley Stadium match really were very much so a WWE sport-entertainment style. I can say it's not my favorite style at all and recognize that it was a great match and that it worked. Then again, the facts are there, AEW is cold, and doing more of this kinda stuff makes them come off more WWE-lite. And their audience if more WWE-lite too, as Meltzer mentioned that when he was at the live shows, people leaving were doing the "Yeah !" LA Knight gimmick. This is not what made them cool and different. Even less so when WWE itself is hot. Sure the MJF & Cole angle was actually kinda hot for a while, so that one worked. But with Cole on the side and for how long, well...

Although I don't think White ends up hurt by the result, I do think it was 95% a MJF match and 5% a White match, which is kinda too bad for White's very first big main event. And yes :

On 11/19/2023 at 6:42 AM, Jmare007 said:

It was fucking hilarious to see 10 people trying to stop Max from getting to the ring and wrestle when 5 minutes before that, a guy with an even worse injury made his entrance to take his place in the match and no one from AEW management gave a single fuck (shit, they made the match official for fuck sakes :lol:).

this was utterly ridiculous and straight out of the Attitude Era playbook. I was expecting some fuckery, but not even. No Devil (which I thought was gonna be Samoa Joe when they shook hands, and still think it might be him), no Kingdom & Roddy. 

Still, great main event even though again, not my preferred style at all. Now, looking forward to more Samoa Joe (not looking forward at all about whatever they are gonna do with Wardlow though).

But what are we talking about anyway. This show was all about Hangman drinking blood (that was a very rare occurence of legit holy fucking shit what the everloving fuck am I witnessing now moment) and Swerve shooting his way into being the AEW champ in 2024. 

Ospreay is a huge catch. The greatest pro-wrestler in the world (and maybe ever). Gotcha ! Now, gimme some Moné already to go along with it.

Julia Hart winning was a nice sorta surprise, and the match was really fun. Watching Julia and Skye improve from the Daily's place days have been quite cool. Gonna miss Skye's old theme though. 

Timeless Toni Storm winning was the right thing, but Shida really comes off as the one who gets the belt only to pass it on to the meaningful character. She would kinda need to turn heel or something (plus I gotta say, she's only as good as the worker she gets in the ring with). I got a kick out of Luther being Storm's butler, because hasn't he debuted in AEW as Brandi's Rhodes' ill conceived faction's own butler in the early days ? I think he did. That guy who was doing hardcore matches with Onita in the 90's is now passing silver platter to an Aussie girl cosplaying Sunset Boulevard so she can load her buttcheeks and give some poor girl head trauma. That's quite a career arc. As far as Toni Storm goes, I do think the gimmick is fun and all, but it is also making her matches worse than they could be. Maybe need some balance between the zaniness and the actual in-ring work...

Young Bucks being heels again makes me happy. They are just the greatest in this role.

The ladder match not being the craziest match of this night is quite telling. I'm all for such clusterfucks.

Adam Copeland is the definition of being there. I swear Sting did more than him.

Ric Flair ! Hey, that means Very Legal Means only. Cool. Guy can't even throw a chop anymore.