The Thread Killer Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 So is it true that during or after the Moxley/Copeland match last week, FTR got involved and after it looked like Harwood was angry with Copeland? There is a segment with “Rated FTR” scheduled for tonight and some people are speculating that it will lead to FTR turning on Copeland and maybe even the long rumoured FTR vs E&C angle? That may actually be enough to get me to tune in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 26 Author Report Share Posted March 26 FTR are absolutely turning heel. It's been a slow burn for the last few weeks. Nick Wayne basically cost Copeland the match. And Nick wayne is absolutely splitting from Christian soon. So yeah, could be Christian & Copeland getting their last stand together before retiring. But really. Kenny Omega vs Blake Christian is gonna murder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted March 26 Report Share Posted March 26 52 minutes ago, El-P said: So yeah, could be Christian & Copeland getting their last stand together before retiring. Christian and Copeland used to fantasy book working with FTR when they had that podcast years ago, and I know Copeland is legitimately close friends with both the guys in FTR, to the point where he name dropped them in a promo after he made his comeback in WWE. I have been critical of them using Copeland in a Main Event spot in AEW, but I have to admit I am legitimately curious and cautiously optimistic about an E&C vs FTR program. Does anybody else here feel the same way, or is the general consensus that AEW just needs to get rid of all of the older guys, especially those who became famous in WWE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 26 Author Report Share Posted March 26 32 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said: Does anybody else here feel the same way, or is the general consensus that AEW just needs to get rid of all of the older guys, especially those who became famous in WWE? Mostly this. I don't mind the angle of FTR turning on Copeland, but the less older WWE guy on AEW TV, the better. AEW has been really fucking good lately, and that's since they pivoted from the disastrous first shows of the year with all the older guys. Copeland can be useful, but he needs to stay the fuck away from the main event scene. A E&C double retirement match, I have no issue with. And so yeah, Brody King vs Kyle Fletcher is gonna murder too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 The tricky part about going up against the company that had a 20+ year monopoly is that anyone you bring in who'd be famous enough to make a difference ratings wise are going to be old WWE guys to some extent. AEW is past the point where bringing in a top name indy star is going to immediately make a difference. It gives AEW some credibility with casual fans by showing they are big time enough to get some well known people from the "big company" to jump ship even if they were a little past their sell by date. Most of us were around to see WCW do the same thing back in the day. Their biggest angle, one of the biggest in history, that shot them to the moon was literally 3 guys famous from WWE beating up the homegrown guys. In AEW's case they've mostly used them help the young guys and didn't fall into the WCW/TNA trap of letting the old guys take over the booking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 AEW is also past the point where top WWE names jumping ship will make a difference. So might as well go with young promising wrestlers who are fresh on TV and can bring a different energy. I don't think it gives AEW any credibility that old WWE stars no longer wanted by the company get a red carpet in AEW. This is not a Danielson situation, where WWE was actively trying to retain him. AEW's attendance and ratings have actually started stabilising and trending upwards after years, and I think it's solely due to improved booking, great matches, learning from mistakes and most importantly, creating stars in Swerve and Ospreay while giving Hangman a tremendous makeover. They should continue doing that. And yeah, while all old WWE stars claim they are here to help the younger wrestlers and get them over, how many of them apart from Danielson and FTR have actually put young wrestlers over? Adam Copeland's match history in AEW is downright depressing in that regard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Counter arguments: Two of the biggest stars in AEW are Swerve and Toni Storm, who were hired directly from WWE runs. Somehow Billy Fucking Gunn has been one of the most over dudes in the entirety of AEW's run. Claudio had a longer run in WWE than Moxley and no one calls him thinks of him as an old WWE guy. It's funny tribalism. If you can remember them or saw them on the indies, they're not ex WWE guys. If you like them, they're not an old WWE guy. AEW's usage of former WWE talent is not like WCW in 1994/1995 filling the cards up with Hogan's buddies from 1988. That said I really wish Jericho would have gone away 20 fucking years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 28 Author Report Share Posted March 28 Adam Copeland is a 50 years old guy who spent his *entire career* in WWE. He's 100% a WWE guy in term of perception. Swerve & Toni Storm are not old. And, they only had a cup of coffee in WWE (3-4 years in a 15 years career for both, more or less), where they never became stars. So, totally not comparable cases at all (not the same age, not the same career arc, not the same status). Claudio ? Sure, he spent a long-ass time in WWE. He also had a strong indy cred before that. He was never a big star in WWE, but still, the most important point is : what has been his mindset ? Well, his mindset has been : work his ass off, have great matches and put people over. This is the difference between this and guys like Malakai Black or Miro (who were not *old* either), who did not want to put anyone over, as their single record attest. Billy Gunn was a gimmick add-on to a tag-team. Nobody will mix him up with being a legit star in AEW (like no one would pretend Hacksaw Duggan was a huge star in WCW). Plus, his match with Jay White remains to this day one of the worst thing ever on AEW TV. If Jericho had retired 20 years ago, there would not have been an AEW. (that is a fact, TK doesn't launch AEW with just the Elite, and CM Punk was too much of a chicken to take part in jumpstarting the promotion). And whatever people think about Jericho, he put over a shitload of people during his stint. Followups weren't always the best (understatement) but that's not his doing. In term of "don't sign old ex-WWE guys", Lashley is thus far the biggest waste of money in AEW history (Benjamin at least is putting some effort). He's 50 and he's been protected (shit, him getting a quick win on Swerve is some of the worse booking in AEW history) despite producing jackshit. So yeah this : 6 hours ago, MoS said: AEW's attendance and ratings have actually started stabilising and trending upwards after years, and I think it's solely due to improved booking, great matches, learning from mistakes and most importantly, creating stars in Swerve and Ospreay while giving Hangman a tremendous makeover. They should continue doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Edge has extremely overdelivered his entire second run, including the WWE run. I've been a long time hater of Edge since probably the start of his singles run, dude has done the best work of his career in ring. I don't think he should be main eventing a bunch in AEW, but he's also lost most of them and has spent most of his AEW run working with people he's never worked with before. I think it's still important for perception for WWE talent to choose to go to AEW. Bryan didn't have to go to AEW, he wanted to. Edge didn't have to go AEW, he wanted to. Lashley didn't have to go to AEW, he wanted to. Cole, Ricochet, Mercedes, etc. It's not like all those stages of WCW and TNA where big WWE stars would go to half ass and have no pride in their work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 28 Author Report Share Posted March 28 35 minutes ago, strobogo said: Edge has extremely overdelivered his entire second run, including the WWE run. I've been a long time hater of Edge since probably the start of his singles run, dude has done the best work of his career in ring. I don't think he should be main eventing a bunch in AEW, but he's also lost most of them and has spent most of his AEW run working with people he's never worked with before. Don't get me wrong, apart from the initial angle with Christian Cage, I think Copeland's stint thus far in term of matches and how he carries himself has been really fun. In term of in-ring, he absolutely came in with the right mindset. Now it would be nice if he actually put people over too. And not just guys like Mox, who don't need it. 35 minutes ago, strobogo said: I think it's still important for perception for WWE talent to choose to go to AEW. Bryan didn't have to go to AEW, he wanted to. Edge didn't have to go AEW, he wanted to. Lashley didn't have to go to AEW, he wanted to. Cole, Ricochet, Mercedes, etc. It's not like all those stages of WCW and TNA where big WWE stars would go to half ass and have no pride in their work. I totally agree on this. The Lashley case thus far has been terrible to me. But it's not too late to make it interesting if he's actually willing to, ya know, work. The angle with MJF this week is the first thing that is halfway compelling about him. Speaking of which, I really hope Bill & Keith win the tag titles. A Big Bill push is long overdue (talk about a guy who has totally flipped the former perception on its ass, as well as turned his life around), and Keith is really fucking good. Then they can go into maybe aa actual MJF vs Lashley feud, ya know (before Swerve gets his win back, maybe as champ, maybe that's a way to milk the Lashley signing), while Benjamin puts people over on ROH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 MJF getting in Lashley's face and saying something like "you want to do this right now" was hilarious and I doubt it was supposed to be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Only watched the first hour but I thought it was solid. - Don't mind watching Kenny squash somebody. Blake Christian has a really good "sizzle reel" on YouTube so I wouldn't mind seeing him pop up more on AEW TV (I think his mannerisms, facial expressions, attitude is even more impressive than his moveset)...but AEW's problem isn't that they don't have enough time or enough wrestlers, its that they have arguably too much of both and so guys (and gals) come in and out and get cycled through and lost in the shuffle or just go from relevant to irrelevant within 6 weeks (according to Cagematch, Private Party haven't had a match on TV in 2 months). Blake Christian is a guy they don't need because the roster is so bloated, but he's a guy I like more than some of the guys on the roster. - Curious where this MJF/Hurt Syndicate thing goes. I don't think Hurt Syndicate is really over over as babyfaces. Like, yes, they get pops and people like to chant "Hurt People Hurt People," but I'm not sure fans are really going to rally behind Bobby Lashley in every situation. Seems like TK is playing with fire a bit. MJF really, really needs to stay heel after that corny face run and, theoretically, Hurt Syndicate v. Bill and Keith is positioning them as faces...but are the AEW fans really going to cheer for Bobby Lashley over MJF? When the size differential is going to make MJF look like the underdog in the fight? When Lashley is an ex-WWE guy and MJF is "our scumbag"? When MJF still gets his fair share of cheers when booked against just about anybody? I like that this storyline feels messy - which is different and fresh - but, yeah, I don't have much confidence in TK being able to stick the landing. - Speaking of Hurt Syndicate, boy did Big Bill biff that promo against MVP. I've seen some online try to blame MVP for "burying" him, but I dunno, between that bad "American Psycho or Iceberg Slim" line (not clever enough to warrant going over the heads' of most of the audience) or using the word "bitch" after MVP had already used it - and delivered it - with more gusto, its hard not to "bury" someone when they're digging themselves into a hole for you. MVP was hired to talk shit and he did it and did it well. TK made the mistake of putting Big Bill out there to "match wits" with a guy he's paying for his mic skills/charisma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Oh for sure MVP ate him the fuck up but that's the nature of letting guys do their own thing in promos. A lot of times it works out, other times it does not. If I'm MVP after the second or third time I think I'd have started to feel bad and let Bill get his shit in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 28 Author Report Share Posted March 28 Blake Christian is terrific and is definitely someone they should develop and push eventually. Great in-ring worker and great slimy heel. MVP murdered the poor guy, really. I don't think interrupting him was very fair, but then again, if you wanna make your promos more organic than two guys doing monologues for 35 minutes, there you go. But yeah, at one point it became kinda awkward and really buried Bill & Keith, which in the end is counterproductive. AEW has been mostly great, but overall, the Hurt Syndicate are *still* a negative thus far. I have no idea how the MJF stuff is gonna go. Hopefully well... (but yes, there is also potential for a train wreck here) I wonder if they aren't slowly building to E&C vs FTR at All In. Which I would be perfectly ok with, considering the context. (every time I see Luther behind Timeless Toni, I remind myself that this guy was doing garbage matches in FMW during the Onita years. This has to be one of the most bizarre career arc ever. Even more bizarre when you consider he first did some kind of butler in the ill fated Brandi stable early on, if I remember correctly. How thing come together...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Shelton was in solid stuff in the CC, Lashley would be fun to put up against the real flippy shit guys and just wreck them. I don't know if I'm going to go far enough to say they're a negative so far, but I don't know what to do with them either. It's better to have them in the tag division than a Lashley title run or something. AEW's problem has been too much talent for most of their run and that's about the best problem to have, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted March 28 Report Share Posted March 28 Lashley vs Hobbs has to be the match down the line. I’ll also except Lashley vs Hangman and I want to see TK roll his WTF dice and give me Lashley vs Ospreay in a random Dynamite main event. For now, the tag spot is good for him while the single spots at the top of the card are occupied. It’s something they should do more often tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Lashley is kind of the Lex Luger of his era where you look at them and are like "well of course we have to push him" and he rarely seems to hit the level it looks like he should but everyone still has the same idea looking at him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 29 Author Report Share Posted March 29 For the heck of it as I'm chilling on a Saturday morning, I checked the record of this particular bunch of people for singles matches. Malakai Black : 15 matches. 3 L to Cody Rhodes, Adam Copeland, Adam Cole Miro : 27 matches. 3 L to Sammy Guevarra, Orange Cassidy, Bryan Danielson (in 2021 and nothing after that point) Andrade : 31 matches. 9 L to PAC, Cody Rhodes, Sammy Guevarra, Darby Allin, Jay White, Bryan Danielson, Claudio Castignoli, Eddie Kingston, Miro Christian Cage : 27 matches.9 L to : Kenny Omega, Adam Cole, Jack Perry, Warldow, Darby Allin, Adam Copeland (twice), Swerve Strickland, Hook Adam Copeland : 20 matches. 3 L to : Christian Cage (twice, including the 12' "match"), Jon Moxley Claudio Castignoli : 45 matches. 12 L to Chris Jericho, Eddie Kingston, Orange Cassidy, Brody King, Eddie Kingston, Hangman Page, Will Ospreay, Swerve Strickland, PAC, Will Ospreay, Kommander, Shota Umino (Tokyo Dome joint show) Yeah, Malakai and Miro totally never refused to put people over 😎. Interesting to see the track record of Andrade and how he excited the company on a relatively high point, going to Arena Mexico and being a part of the CC. And yeah, Copeland needs to put guys over now. I know the argument is Sting never lost a match, but Copeland ain't Sting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 4 hours ago, El-P said: Yeah, Malakai and Miro totally never refused to put people over 😎. I know this is sarcasm but people were poking fun at their singles records for ages. There was a period of time in which Malakai had less singles matches than Bray Wyatt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 29 Author Report Share Posted March 29 1 hour ago, KawadaSmile said: I know this is sarcasm but people were poking fun at their singles records for ages. There was a period of time in which Malakai had less singles matches than Bray Wyatt. Yeah, after a point, you can see he's working basically only tag and trios matches. And he never took a pin in those either. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted Saturday at 11:14 PM Report Share Posted Saturday at 11:14 PM Ironically, Sting never lost but in the process he still managed to put over Darby huge in the process. Plus he was so beloved in his last run the crowd probably would have revolted if he had lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted Sunday at 12:39 AM Report Share Posted Sunday at 12:39 AM I will always maintain that AEW booked Sting far better than anyone ever. Watts, JCP, WCW, TNA, all of them. His AEW run was the best run of his career. He obviously didn't have the kind of matches that he did with Ric Flair in JCP/WCW or Cactus Jack and Big Van Vader in WCW, but he was presented and booked in a far superior way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted Sunday at 01:17 AM Report Share Posted Sunday at 01:17 AM Mercedes and Athena is another banger on the horizon. Also say what you will about Tony S, sometimes it blows my mind that the guy who used to do the rundown of upcoming JCP shows when I was a kid is now doing the rundown of upcoming AEW shows to adult me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted Sunday at 04:28 AM Report Share Posted Sunday at 04:28 AM On 3/26/2025 at 4:48 PM, The Thread Killer said: AEW just needs to get rid of all of the older guys, especially those who became famous in WWE? Your attempted Christian erasure won't be tolerated here, sir. 13 hours ago, KawadaSmile said: There was a period of time in which Malakai had less singles matches than Bray Wyatt. I'll never understand what people see in Malakai/Aleister Black. Okay, I do understand - I see the same thing - but something is missing. Kind of the way I felt about Bam Bam Bigelow too, but Bam Bam was a hundred times the worker and attraction Black is. On 3/28/2025 at 8:43 PM, strobogo said: Lashley Aleister/Malakai Black is kind of the Lex Luger of his era where you look at them and are like "well of course we have to push him" and he rarely seems to hit the level it looks like he should but everyone still has the same idea looking at him. Corrected* for you. *not that you're wrong about Lashley either. When PWO was going nuts for him years ago, booking dream matches between him and Brock Lesnar, I was genuinely baffled why everyone here had their hands down their pants for this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted Sunday at 08:01 AM Report Share Posted Sunday at 08:01 AM IMO Big Bob has the aura of someone who should be a megastar, but for some reason he's just....not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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