Loss Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I feel like we should have a Buddy Rose thread in light of him passing away. I haven't seen nearly as much of him as I would like, although I have tons of stuff, and in the future, will use this thread to drop comments on his matches. But I'm sure others may have things to say now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkeats Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 I feel like we should have a Buddy Rose thread in light of him passing away. I haven't seen nearly as much of him as I would like, although I have tons of stuff, and in the future, will use this thread to drop comments on his matches. But I'm sure others may have things to say now. Growing up, I remembered Buddy as the "217 lb" mid carder for WWF and later on as an AWA tag champion in a great feud with the Rockers. It wasn't until I got into the tape trading world last year that I really got to see his top notch stuff. His feud with Piper in Portland is some of my favorite stuff to watch now. They had such a great chemistry and he made a fantastic chickenshit heel. One of my favorite promos ever is that one with him, Piper, Wiskoski and Killer Brooks coming out with all of the title belts in the wheelbarrow. It was so great in it's cockiness, I'm shocked no one has ever used it again since. His matches with Backlund for the WWF Title are top notch as well and show that he was much more than the mid card joke that a lot of people seem to want him to portray him as. A very underrated worker. Very sad to hear of him passing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indikator Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Get the Lynch Portland set. More fun than a WCW/WWF season set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Tremendous bumping big man that could cut an insane pace. Looking back on what I've seen of Rose over the last year, I really think he smokes someone like Adrian Adonis in this regard. Obviously was great with Somers and was in the best Backlund match I've ever seen (where he was the better worker in the ring IMO) but his best stuff was for Don Owen. It's actually a shame Portland stuff didn't become available earlier, because Rose is a guy who I don't think is going to get his due until long after he's passed. Speaking of Portland stuff over at DVDVR someone claims that Rose is actually the source of most of the available Portland which is awesome if true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 Portland is one of the territories we are working on in the DVDVR project and I had the pleasure of nominating matches from. Here are some of the matches you guys should check out... Buddy Rose vs. Rick Martel (2/3 falls) (4/26/80) - Buddy is wearing a mask/wig combo for the match. 1st fall has some nice legwork from Buddy. Awesome spot where MArtle gives Buddy an atomic drop but his leg is damaged from all of the legwork. This allows Buddy to work on the leg some more and get the easy submission. This first fall was pretty good almost all due to Buddy. 2nd fall sees Martel still selling the leg and Buddy trying to destroy it. Buddy gets posted and the tide turns. Martel in turn decides to post Buddy's back and work on his back and eventually win the 2nd fall with the Boston Crab. I love it when wrestlers work the body parts and it means something. 3rd fall and Martel continues too work on the back. I love it when Buddy went to slam Martel but couldn't complete the slam because his back was too injured. Early in the fall, Martel rips off Buddy's wig and Buddy is too embarassed to continue and runs to the back giving Martel the countout win. This match was awesome and is a slam-dunk nomination and a contender for any set you want to put it on. Buddy Rose vs. Butch Miller (2/3 Falls) (6/7/80) - Miller is avenging his partner. Rose is fighting the match under protest so he stalls and tries o avoid Miller the first few minutes. When Miller finally gets a hold of him, he goes on the attack and just beats the shit out of him and after three jumping elbows, he gets the easy pin. This is excellent booking as Miller just dismantles Rose. The 2nd fall was back and forth and Rose gets the the pin using the ropes for leverage. 3rd fall is short but wild as it goes to the outside and Rose posts Miller and gets the blood flowing. The match ends in a countout but Rose and Miller keep brawling in and out of the ring. Another nomination. Buddy Rose, Ed Wiskowski & Fidel Cortez vs. Butch Miller, Luke Williams & Lord Jonathan Boyd (2/3 Falls) (7/19/80) - The first fall finds the Sheeps working over the arms of Cortez and then Wiskowski. The big spot had Ed shoot into the ropes and knock Buddy off the apron. When the heels gain control, Jonathan Boyd takes a great bump off a rope choke. When he regains control, Boyd ends it with a flying knee drop on Wiskowski. The 2nd fall has Miller playing FIP and Rose finally comes into the match when the heels are firmly in control. The hot tag is amde to Boyd who bounces Buddy around in and out of the ring. Luke Williams is tagged in, misses the back elbow and is put down with a sleeper. After the fall, while the referee is distracted, the heels take turns pounding Williams who still isn't awake from the sleeper. One of the things I really like about the Portland 2/3 Falls matches is that the guys who ended the last fall have to be the ones to start the next fall so Williams continues the match as FIP. The 3rd fall ends with a shmoz as Rose rolls Miller up for the pin while holding the tights. I don't think this is the best match i have seen today but it is worth a watch. Boyd was really on fire here and Buddy was great as usual, even when he wasn't the legal man, always keeping things interested on the outside. Nomination. Buddy Rose & Ed Wiskowski vs. Roddy Piper & Rick Martel (2/3 Falls) (for vacant tag titles) (8/2/80) - Damn, Buddy Rose does more on the outside of the ring than most people do inside. 1st fall has Piper doing the majority of the work and when the heels are in control, they are working over his injured ribs and back. When Martel comes in, he lights the heels up and disposes of Rose with the huracanrana pin. 2nd fall has Martel in control until a missed dropkick. Ed & Buddy hen proceed to destroy Martel's back. Rose is doing some great moves finding new ways to work on Martel's back including a nice backbreaker to get the 2nd fall. With nearly all Portland tags, the wiiners of the last fall continue to do what worked in the last fall, which is working over Martel's back in this instance. I am only 4 discs into the Portland footage but DAMN if it isn't the most logical and well-worked matches I have seen even if guys who are considered limited like Piper and the Sheepherders. Buddy Rose is also one of the Top 5 heels of the 80s right up there with Tully blanchard and Ted Dibiase. back to the match, Piper gets the hot tag but Buddy and Ed do a cool double team over. Ed slingshots Piper into Rose who proceeds to backdrop him out of the ring. Fucking sweet. This causes the action to spill out of the ring and the match ends in a no-contest but the wrestlers continue to brawl anyway. In the end, each team claims one of the tag titles and they continue to brawl in the post-match interview. Another badass Portland tag!!! Larry & Curt Hennig vs. Buddy Rose & Rip Oliver (2/3 falls) (4/3/82) - I had reservations about this match because Larry is old as hell and Curt is green. However, when you look at the Axe, he looks like the strongest guy in there despite his age. He quickly disposes of Oliver after an Axe Bomber and elbow drop in the first fall. Second fall starts off with Larry abusing Buddy's hand and Rose's selling and facial expressions are great. Curt's ribs are taped and he looks really skinny. Curt stays in control until Oliver catches him off the ropes with a knee to the ribs which makes Curt your FIP. The heels wortk over Curt's ribs which is the obvious thing to do and use some nice offense to make him cry out in pain. One spot has Oliver slingshot Curt to the ropes, whip back and the ribs land on Oliver's knees in a spot I think I have seen Goldust use. Larry tries to save his kid but he is eventually pinned after Oliver rammed Curt's ribs into the ringpost and dumps him back inside. Third fall continues where it lef toff in the 2nd. This is the thing I love about these POrtland matches. If a story from an earlier fall can carry on effectively, they run with it instead of doing illogical things. Larry eventually comes in and cleans house, dishing out punishment and laying in the strikes. THere weren't too many pulled punches in this round. I guess to put over the devastating effect of the Axe Bomber, Rose blades after a Bomber sends him flying out of the ring. I guess the Axe was blowing up because he tags Curt back in sooner than he should have been. Curt takes control, and is also still selling the ribs which is a nice touch. OLiver ends up bringing in a chair, using it on Curt's ribs and getting the DQ. Man, it is difficult to omit almost any Buddy Rose match becasue the guy is that good. He made green Curt and over-the-hill LArry look like a million bucks. Another nomination. Buddy Rose vs. Matt Borne (2/3 falls) (Lumberjack Match) (6/12/82) - Rose is complaining early on about having to wrestle on television when he thought it would be an arena match. As a lumbrjack math, there are about 4 guys out there to serve as "guards". There is confusion about the match as the ring announcer said it was No Disqualification but the announcer said regular rules apply. Who knows but they start out wild enough as Borne is pounding away on Rose. Rose ends up busting Borne open and working on the cut. Later on, Rose grabs a chair and nails Rose with it to bust him open. Seriously, the first fall might be enough of a nomination on its own. Borne punches Rose in the head and gets the pin after a flurry of punches. Rose was laid out and did not leave the ring after the fall. The 2nd fall continues in the same vein as the 1st until Rose gives Borne a low-blow to turn the tide. The ref claims it was to the stomach but to drive the point home, Buddy gets Borne in a wheelbarrow position and kicks him right in the crotch. He then does some running knee lifts, connecting with more "close calls" on each knee lift. Shit, this match is brutal. And after Rose appears to have the upper hand, Borne lands a low blow of his own. Borne goes for the punches again but gets flipped over in a sunset flip position and pinned. Borne wastes no time in the 3rd fall and goes o town on the cut including a SWEET double knee lift to the head. I don't know where he got it from but Buddy has a chain wrapped around his hand and knocks Borne the fuck out for the pin. OK, nevermind because Borne revives about ten seconds later. Borne's post-match interview sets up a chain match between the two. I think I remember seeing it listed on Walburton's Portland list so maybe that is something we can pursue. Anyway, this matchis a SLAM DUNK NOMINATION. Buddy Rose vs. Chris Adams (2/3 falls) (2/26/83) - By this point, it is getting redundant but Buddy Rose is so frigging great. Pay attention to the slap exhange and how well Buddy plays up the whole thing. Seriously, watch him as Adams is working on an arm wrench and watch Buddy selling and his facial expressions and his mannerisms. He makes the most basic shit look painful or high-end. Adams ends up taking the first fall after a superkick and a tombstone piledriver. Adams slows it down in the 2nd fall, working a headlock. This makes perfect sense after pounding Buddy's neck with the piledriver. Buddy eventually takes control but after a whip to the corner, an Adams cross-body is reversed into a pin for Buddy. The third fall is full of near falls and missed opportunities. This is the best fall by far with the crowd worked into a frenzy. Rose ends up winning the match by countout after Adams hit a pescado but Rose made it into the ring first becasue Adams injured his leg. A definite nomination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest secondcoming Posted May 1, 2009 Report Share Posted May 1, 2009 I had the pleasure of experiencing a ton of Buddy rose while doing my Piper set... There is not much to say, except the man was the epitome of a heel...He was the "love to hate" kind of heel, and great at it...Every match with him (whether it be with Ed W., against Piper, against Martel...with or against the Sheepherders)...the man drew real heat...and I am talking about, drew real heat from me, in present day...and I am a smark...that is not easy to accomplish. Also, as far as i know, Rose's army was one of the earliest stables to gain any type of notoriety... The man had a true mind for the art behind wrestling, and he will be missed. RIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nice, classy story from KPTV: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawk Posted May 4, 2009 Report Share Posted May 4, 2009 THe Buddy Rose-Moondog Lonnie Mayne feud: Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vXf4WXH9Vw Part 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX4qechz-uk Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADM694BeRDs Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36Q0hKgrEOI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted May 8, 2009 Report Share Posted May 8, 2009 I thought Dave's full obit on Rose was a really strong effort. Worth reading if, like me, you always enjoyed Rose's work but didn't know a ton about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 It's an excellent obit - content wise probably the best Meltzer obit I can remember. One thing in reading it that really jumps out at me is how Rose - who I doubt anyone would think of as an HoFer - is at least as good a candidate as a lot of people who have popped on and off that ballot in recent years. I wouldn't advocate for him, but that sort of detailed piece really does give a person a good look at the strength and weaknesses of guys that we never seem to get come HoF time. It's really a shame that such effort only appears when someone drops dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Indeed. I've been loving the Oliver/Johnson series of books, since they really cover wrestlers I never would have heard of otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 For the Hall of Fame, I guess it depends what the critieria is. Benoit got in solely on "work". I guess the same argument was used to usher in Angle. Buddy Rose should get in on body of work alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted May 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 An important distinction on that that I think people who have lobbied for Bill Dundee and his ilk to go into the HOF have maybe overlooked: No one is in the HOF on "work alone", even if that's what said. There are, however, many people in because they were loved by everyone and people were raving about them at the time they were in their prime. It's not about actually being a great worker, it's about everyone thinking you're a great worker, to a point where you're highly revered by smarks. That's why Benoit, Liger, Angle, Dynamite Kid, DiBiase, and Steamboat are in, and Dundee (and Buddy Rose) are not. Good or bad, that's what the rule is. I don't think Dave cares about whether someone is actually good, he cares about whether or not others think they're good. That's been the crux of almost all of the "better worker" and debates over star ratings arguments he and Bryan Alvarez have been a part of the past few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 I am looking forward to Portland set and getting a chance to see a lot of Buddy after watching one of his Backlund matches at MSG and the tag feud with the Rockers from AWA, even though I get the feeling it's a ways off. But as far as the Observer HOF goes, I personally don't care about it, and to me it's more of a popularity contest than a legitimate Hall of Fame for guys who were all time greats. You can't tell me some of the guys like Angle and even DiBiase deserve to be in there before a long list of others, most importantly to me: Dick Murdoch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 Yeah, the HoF is about consensus guys. Consensus being horribly wrong at times and prone to change over the years is one of the many reasons the HoF should have changed long ago. Work alone would get Rose in, and Windham, and a lot of other people that simply don't have any hope at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 How the HOF and its voting is structured, being a great worker only matters if you were able to headline in a lot of territories (especially the big ones like New York or Minneapolis) or in a major national promotion. That's why Dundee and Rose will never get in, because their greatest work happened in one or two small territories, so their best work hasn't been widely exposed. I don't think Benoit and Eddie get in without their runs as WWE headliners, while Rey's still on the outside looking in, despite being a consensus great worker, because Vince has never fully got behind him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Rey not being in is pretty ridiculous, when you consider the fact that he's brought in more money to the company than Eddy or Benoit - possibly both combined. There are exceptions to the rule kjh (Fargo, Lawler, DK) but as a general rule I think you are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Fargo and Lawler didn't get in on "work". Regardless of what people think of Jerry now, Dave didn't think he was a "great" worker in 1996. He didn't think he was dogshit, but I'd be surprised if there was ever a comment from 1983-1996 from Dave that Jerry was one of the great workers in the business. Compared to what he had to say about Bobby Eaton... yeah. DK didn't get in for work in one place. New Japan, Calgary, Portland and even declining in All Japan and the WWF before the injury got run. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 Fargo and Lawler didn't get in on "work". Regardless of what people think of Jerry now, Dave didn't think he was a "great" worker in 1996. He didn't think he was dogshit, but I'd be surprised if there was ever a comment from 1983-1996 from Dave that Jerry was one of the great workers in the business. Compared to what he had to say about Bobby Eaton... yeah. DK didn't get in for work in one place. New Japan, Calgary, Portland and even declining in All Japan and the WWF before the injury got run. John Known. I was responding to kjh who made the point that where a person drew money was also a factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 I wasn't talking about drawing. My point was that the number of territories a "great" worker works, which territories he works and his position on the card is much more important than the actual quality of his work. For example, Bryan Danielson is more highly revered by smarks as a great worker than Edge, but who'd get the most support on the ballot if they both went on this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 I think I got kjh's point and was supporting it. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I wasn't talking about drawing. My point was that the number of territories a "great" worker works, which territories he works and his position on the card is much more important than the actual quality of his work. For example, Bryan Danielson is more highly revered by smarks as a great worker than Edge, but who'd get the most support on the ballot if they both went on this year? My fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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