DVD #3: MS-1 vs Sangre Chicana

[Loss]

Talk about it when you get it here.

[MikeCampbell]

As a relative Lucha novice, I'm pleased to say this is one of the few Lucha matches that I seem to "get" on the first viewing. Lucha has this stereotype to people who aren't familiar with it of being little more than a bunch of whacked out holds and wrestlers constantly diving onto each other.

 

This is the perfect match to show to that crowd, because it's very simple, yet very effective. MS easily winning the first fall by busting open Sangre and mostly refusing to let him in the ring and kicking at his head. Sangre getting revenge in the second fall and causing MS to bleed. The third fall featuring them both putting over the fatigue and blood loss, and I really dug MS constantly going for pins even after simple moves, but going for too much and being forced to submit. Tons of blood, good storytelling, what else do you need?

[Loss]

I've watched this plenty of times before, and my opinion is pretty much the same after watching it again. Do I still think it's the best match I've ever seen? Possibly, I don't know. My opinions change all the time. But it's still near the top.

[Childs]

It's a great match, no doubt. The bloodlust between the two feels absolutely real. Even the bad lighting adds to the feeling that you've dropped in on a seedy, back-ally fight to the death. But I'm interested to hear why it might be your favorite match ever, Loss. It didn't engage me at that level, maybe because I don't know a ton about either guy or what led up to the match.

[anarchistxx]

What a seedy match. Dimly lit, dirty arena, rabid crowd, gallons of blood, tinny sound, you've got to love it. I wouldn't put it up there as a real classic, it reminds me of a more athletic Slaughter/Sheik boot camp match. There's a bit too much repetition, what with the suicide dives and MS-1 in general. Otherwise, it's really good, from someone who knows little about the era or the wrestlers. ***3/4

[ohtani's jacket]

I don't know anything about the build-up. I imagine it was the standard trios build-up, but the information's probably out there in Spanish somewhere.

 

When the match first started circulating, people were more familiar with MS-1 than Chicana, because of the Infernales, but Chicana was actually the bigger star. He was a big stip match worker, who wrestled all the top guys in EMLL and UWA due to their working agreement. MS-1 had only lost his mask the year before and wouldn't form the Infernales until '84, so it's fair to say this feud made him. He'd go on to main event or semi main for another ten years or so.

 

We can't be certain that this is the best wager match of the 80s, but from the lucha footage that exists, the only match that comes close is the Santo/Espanto Jr. mask match. The Dandy stip matches are a level down from that, though the Pirata Morgan hair match is excellent. The Estrada/Cruz match is popular in some circles, but I've always hated that match.

 

Even though it was retroactively discussed, MS-1/Chicana set the standard for lucha stip matches. Lynch seemed to have the tape for a long time before people saw it, but I can't imagine anyone not using it as their frame of reference for wager matches.

[Bix]

Dandy-Pirata...is that the one that Jose talked about seeing at Champions with the bloody cover?

[ohtani's jacket]

Yeah, that's the one.

[jdw]

MS-1 vs Sangre was in the Munari collection when Barnett bought it. Can't remember what tape it was on, but could swear we watched it way back when Bob got it.

 

Lynch may have gotten it from Munari. Might even have been on a World Pro show.

 

Unless I'm recalling another mid-80s Sangre hair match with buckets of blood and a rabid crowd.

 

John

[Phil Schneider]

Yeah, that's the one.

Where did you get a copy of that from?

[ohtani's jacket]

I rented it from Champion. Jose tried to buy it off them, but they wouldn't sell it to him.

[jdw]

Looks like Grover posted a better lit version of the match:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zidIDa2LpXA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTC4zVryIUY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZDtc5ergRo

 

Haven't looked to see if it's edited.

 

John

[tim]

Has to be one of my top 10 matches ever. Love what the lighting does to the atmosphere, just makes it seem so much more gritty and desperate. Chicana ducking the punch and unloading on MS1 while the crowd EXPLODES is one of my favorite moments in wrestling ever. Towards the end the they just seem so drained and sell the fatigue amazingly well(MS1 tripping over himself trying to the get the turnbuckle for the splash is one of the little things that sucks you in and makes you believe how grueling the match is), with the slow, deliberate counts adding a lot to it. Of course the post-match is also on par with the match itself. Love it.

[KB8]

I watched this three times this week and it got better every time. So, so great. It's pretty much the perfect balance between Lucha and Mid-South that I could imagine, and since I've been on a big lucha kick as of late and Mid-South's my favourite promotion ever... well, you probably get the idea. The first time I actually wished the lighting was better, but after checking out the link that John posted and going back and re-watching the disc version, I thought the dim lighting added to the whole feel - this is a fight, these two are beating ten shades of shit out of each other to the point where it's almost human cockfighting and the darkness highlights the overall gruesome tone. Or something.

 

I love that Chicana gets absolutely zero offence in for about a caida and a half. None at all. Whatsoever. Instead he just bleeds and bleeds and bleeds and takes an ass-stomping like a man. Of course, the heat they build for the eventual comeback is about as well done as I've ever seen, and the crowd completely blowing their stack for a duck and punch is a pretty beautiful thing. The revenge spots are simple yet naturally effective, and then the plancha that totally creams MS-1 which leads to him being counted out was pure greatness.

 

Third caida is amazing, from the scud missile planchas that resemble hate-fuelled diving headbutts to the mat being completely stained red. This is the only match I've ever seen featuring these two, so I'm not sure this is even the case, but was there a couple moments where MS-1 teased applying the move that Chicana later submits him with (which I'm assuming is Chicana's signature hold/finisher)? He grabs the leg as if he's going to slap on a half crab and the heat it generates is crazy, even more so when he grins out at the crowd. Then he grabs Chicana's arm and the heat that gets is huge, too. Nothing important or anything, but it's yet another little thing I loved about the match.

 

The bump off the missed senton looked especially nasty, and the resulting submission and head-shaving capped everything off perfectly. Just a great, great match.

[Log]

Even though it was retroactively discussed, MS-1/Chicana set the standard for lucha stip matches. Lynch seemed to have the tape for a long time before people saw it, but I can't imagine anyone not using it as their frame of reference for wager matches.

I was thinking this while I watched tonight. It seems to be a template of sort for matches to come.

 

Most of my thoughts have been already stated here. The one thing that I really like here is the fact that these two really sell the blood-loss. Once their busted open (the entire match for Chicana), they can barely stand. They stumble around. Even their dives have an out-of-control feel to them.

 

I gotta think this will be a front-runner going into the DVDVR 80's Lucha poll. It'll be interesting to see how it stacks up against some less-seen stuff.