Kurt Angle and Jeff Jarrett TNA Drama

[Loss]

http://www.f4wonline.com/content/view/9995/

 

--Here is an update on the Jeff Jarrett/TNA/Kurt Angle situation. Ever since the mysterious TNA person on Bubba the Love Sponge said that Jarrett and Karen Angle were together, Dixie Carter ordered Jarrett to go home, which has been described publicly as him agreeing to take a leave of absence. At the house show on Saturday night, Angle was telling people that he is going to end up with booking control of the company that Jarrett had and that he won't sign a new contract if Jarrett remains in power. Nobody really know how things transpire from here. Jarrett was booked in segments on last night's show that were either tweaked or removed. The direction of the booking last night was planned before any of this went down as the TVs for the next month were written before the Bubba stuff happened, although everything involving Jarrett obviously has had to be tweaked. Generally speaking, the wrestlers are sympathetic to Kurt Angle on this one aside from those who have naturally close ties with Jarrett. TNA people are playing the tape from Bubba over and over since the guy disguised his voice, attempting to find out who started this mess and made the call. I presume, given that it's wrestling, that they all make up and try and do a television angle out of this.

This does sound like something Vince Russo would love. I am still trying to figure out if Kurt Angle-controlled TNA would be better or worse than Jeff Jarrett-controlled TNA if it comes to that.

[Bob Morris]

That question would come down to how much Angle wants to continue to be an active wrestler and if he's actually willing to put other people over.

 

While Jarrett has been made a focal point of TNA storylines, from what I have watched and read, he's doing at least a few things to help elevate talent, even if much of it is ever followed up on properly.

 

Of course, I seriously doubt Jarrett will ever step down from any position of control, so I figure Angle will be gone when his deal expires. Then I expect him to want to go back to WWE, and Vince absolutely will take him for the sole reason that he believes he could make money off Angle.

[JHawk]

So Angle is pissed that his wife left him for/cheated on him with one of the wrestlers, even though it's no secret he cheated on her on numerous occasions first. How about neither of them have any power, we get Russo and Dutch out of there, and we bring in somebody to book (not write) the promotion to where people might actually want to pay to see the PPVs.

[MikeCampbell]

Good idea in theory, but who do they bring in?

 

Cornette has already said he has no desire to do so.

Heyman is supposedly done with wrestling.

[kjh]

With all the money saved from booting out Angle, Jarrett, Russo and Dutch, I'm sure you could easily convince Cornette or Heyman to change their minds or get pretty much anyone else Dixie's heart desired to run the company. Cornette's and Heyman's lack of desire to book for TNA always seemed to me to be a power issue. With Jarrett and cronies around they would never have complete creative control and neither of them wanted to have all the headaches that would inevitably cause, having both hated being in that situation before in WCW and WWE. Of course, it's not going to happen, because I doubt Dixie is bold enough to get rid of both the company's biggest star and the company's founder.

[Bix]

I fail to see how any of this should be a problem to the point of sending Jarrett home for both the above mentioned reasons (especially Kurt cheating to the point that it's "well known that he likes black women") and the fact that, as far as I know, nobody has said anything about Karen being with Jarrett at any point before the separation or divorce. Especially in the wrestling business.

 

EDIT: Well, except for the part about the Angle children moving in with Jarrett, too. Forgot about that before listening to the Bubba call. But still...

[kjh]

Except Bix, Kurt Angle is clearly making it a problem, probably more because he sees it as an opportunity to wrest power from Jarrett which he's had aspirations of from day one, than his anger at Jarrett supposedly stealing his wife and children. Also don't forget that wrestling has a completely warped sense of morality and from a management perspective who is right is always the person who is most valuable to the company.

 

Of course, there's also the slim chance that this is all just an elaborate work.

[Bix]

I forgot about the coup declaration for some reason when I was typing that, but still, Jarrett is management who started the company and the Angles have been done for almost a year.

 

You're probably right that he doesn't actually care about the coupling as much as seeing it as an opportunity.

[goc]

I think it's a somewhat interesting story in a stupid gossipy drama that's really no one's business kind of way. But as far as it's iMPACT! on TNA I don't think it's really going to matter whether Angle or Jarrett wind up in charge. TNA is just doomed to suck, always and forever.

[tsurutaman]

My money is on Russo being the "mystery caller" -- he has lived for this kind of shooty/insidery crap since he first got prominence on the WWE booking team. If it's a work it's a good one as it's got people talking about something other than the ABYSMAL in ring TNA product.

 

If it's a shoot -- I agree with the stated views that Kirk Angel couldn't give a crap about who's "rubbin' his rhubarb" -- if they've been having marital problems for as long as has been rumoured. He sees a chance to exert power and this is a perfect way to marginalize Double J.

[rovert]

My money is on Russo being the "mystery caller"

It is ODB just listen to the voice, speech patten and the hamfisted OTT reference to calling the caller "Sir" by Bubba.

[tsurutaman]

My money is on Russo being the "mystery caller"

It is ODB just listen to the voice, speech patten and the hamfisted OTT reference to calling the caller "Sir" by Bubba.

 

Interrrrresting.... SOMEBODY is going to be in deep doo doo over this before it's over....

thank you for the extra info.

[Bob Morris]

With all the money saved from booting out Angle, Jarrett, Russo and Dutch, I'm sure you could easily convince Cornette or Heyman to change their minds or get pretty much anyone else Dixie's heart desired to run the company. Cornette's and Heyman's lack of desire to book for TNA always seemed to me to be a power issue. With Jarrett and cronies around they would never have complete creative control and neither of them wanted to have all the headaches that would inevitably cause, having both hated being in that situation before in WCW and WWE. Of course, it's not going to happen, because I doubt Dixie is bold enough to get rid of both the company's biggest star and the company's founder.

Heyman seems to be the guy always trotted out as the guy to book TNA, but any check of his booking patterns have shown that while he may get matches people go nuts for, he is lousy at getting people to buy PPVs, which is what the business is based on these days. I've always said Heyman would be a good choice to put together house shows, but when it comes to building storylines to sell PPVs, his track record is poor.

 

Cornette might have a better understanding about how to build storylines to sell PPVs, but some of his thinking is a bit outdated, so you'd want him to be part of a committee where there is somebody else who can give input as to what types of characters and storylines appeal to the audience TNA wants to draw.

[Loss]

Cornette in that position may or may not work. I have a feeling it would be more like Bill Watts era WCW, where he does all these things to try to re-educate the audience, but powers-that-be would lose patience with him before he had a chance to see it through. So it wouldn't matter if it would work or not, because he wouldn't be given the chance he would need to prove whether it could or couldn't work.

[Sean Liska]

With all the money saved from booting out Angle, Jarrett, Russo and Dutch, I'm sure you could easily convince Cornette or Heyman to change their minds or get pretty much anyone else Dixie's heart desired to run the company. Cornette's and Heyman's lack of desire to book for TNA always seemed to me to be a power issue. With Jarrett and cronies around they would never have complete creative control and neither of them wanted to have all the headaches that would inevitably cause, having both hated being in that situation before in WCW and WWE. Of course, it's not going to happen, because I doubt Dixie is bold enough to get rid of both the company's biggest star and the company's founder.

Heyman seems to be the guy always trotted out as the guy to book TNA, but any check of his booking patterns have shown that while he may get matches people go nuts for, he is lousy at getting people to buy PPVs, which is what the business is based on these days. I've always said Heyman would be a good choice to put together house shows, but when it comes to building storylines to sell PPVs, his track record is poor.

 

 

Really? ECW was doing bigger buyrates than TNA is doing now back when they just had late-night syndicated TV and very few stars with national names. ECW could be in the 80,000-100,000 range, which TNA very rarely hits. That's amazing when you think about the resources of the respective companies. TNA has two hours of weekly prime time TV on a solid cable network with a roster including fomer WrestleMania main eventers. ECW was on MSG at 2AM on a Friday night. And ECW could still do bigger buyrates. The same can be said about how ECW could actually go on the road and run places consistenly while drawing 2,000-3,000 in their bigger markets, which TNA has been unable to do. TNA can't even draw enough fans to justify doing PPVs on the road anymore.

 

The only other buys you could evaluate Heyman by would be from the Smackdown era. I'm pretty sure the SummerSlam with Lesnar-Rock did well. I don't remember the other shows being out of the ordinary either way.

[tsurutaman]

Personally, TNA has to try something different. They have a talent base but it's being misused. I think Paul E. deserves a chance to try and turn it around if he wants as long as he doesn't have his hands on the purse strings which is where ECW went wrong.

 

IF -- big word -- If Dixie Carter could convince Russo/Cornette/Heyman to work together (giving each separate duties). The results would at least be interesting. The only thing we know that DOESN'T work is when the booker wears wrestling trunks. As long as they can separate the two offices. They could make progress

 

Were Angle given the booking position we know it would be Total Nonstop Angle. Just like early TNA when JJ beat everyone no matter what. Hell if they gave it to Nash he'd want the belt as long as his decrepit quads held out.

[Loss]

Another thing we know doesn't work is Vince Russo.

 

Wrestlers booking also isn't necessarily a bad thing. There have been successful booker-slash-wrestlers. It's just that people tend to remember the ones that didn't work more.

[Al]

Who were the best booker/wrestlers? Giant Baba strikes me as the pinnacle, but I'm likely missing a few good ones.

[Bix]

Bill Watts, Dusty Rhodes before he burnt out, Jerry Jarrett, Bill Dundee, Gary Hart, Eddie Gilbert, and Jerry Lawler off the top of my head without trying hard.

[Bob Morris]

With all the money saved from booting out Angle, Jarrett, Russo and Dutch, I'm sure you could easily convince Cornette or Heyman to change their minds or get pretty much anyone else Dixie's heart desired to run the company. Cornette's and Heyman's lack of desire to book for TNA always seemed to me to be a power issue. With Jarrett and cronies around they would never have complete creative control and neither of them wanted to have all the headaches that would inevitably cause, having both hated being in that situation before in WCW and WWE. Of course, it's not going to happen, because I doubt Dixie is bold enough to get rid of both the company's biggest star and the company's founder.

Heyman seems to be the guy always trotted out as the guy to book TNA, but any check of his booking patterns have shown that while he may get matches people go nuts for, he is lousy at getting people to buy PPVs, which is what the business is based on these days. I've always said Heyman would be a good choice to put together house shows, but when it comes to building storylines to sell PPVs, his track record is poor.

 

 

Really? ECW was doing bigger buyrates than TNA is doing now back when they just had late-night syndicated TV and very few stars with national names. ECW could be in the 80,000-100,000 range, which TNA very rarely hits. That's amazing when you think about the resources of the respective companies. TNA has two hours of weekly prime time TV on a solid cable network with a roster including fomer WrestleMania main eventers. ECW was on MSG at 2AM on a Friday night. And ECW could still do bigger buyrates. The same can be said about how ECW could actually go on the road and run places consistenly while drawing 2,000-3,000 in their bigger markets, which TNA has been unable to do. TNA can't even draw enough fans to justify doing PPVs on the road anymore.

Saying ECW drew better buyrates than TNA ever has does not translate to Heyman knowing how to build storylines that sell PPVs. I have seen no evidence that ECW increased its buys beyond its core audience... a core audience that was, no doubt, more loyal to the company than TNA's core audience is. But comparing Company A to Company B does not prove anything, it's about comparing Company A's PPVs to each other, particularly from one year to the next, to see if whoever is in charge is increasing buys.

 

The only other buys you could evaluate Heyman by would be from the Smackdown era. I'm pretty sure the SummerSlam with Lesnar-Rock did well. I don't remember the other shows being out of the ordinary either way.

The comparison is to take the PPVs in which Heyman was doing a lot of the booking and comparing them to the shows of the previous year to see if interest was really being increased. Or compare WWE PPVs outside of the "big four" to see if there was a boost from one to the next.

 

People need to not buy too swiflty into this idea that Heyman is the cure for all that ails TNA. With Heyman, you'd get the X Division workers doing even more gimmick matches than they are currently doing, Abyss being allowed to run free with his hardcore antics, the Beautiful People being a trio of lesbians who get heat by trying to kiss their opponents, and very likely, Kurt Angle being thrown out there in 15-minute matches nearly every single Impact that may cause certain smart marks to cream themselves, but is going to add more wear and tear to Angle's body as he is encouraged to engage in "top this" in his matches.

 

Because stuff like that is the way Heyman operates.

[Ditch]

Choshu had some great runs of booking.. really the majority of men's feds in Japan were booked by current or retired wrestlers. Flair in '89 was good.

[Bob Morris]

OK, here's a link to ECW PPV buyrates.

 

Not sure if the last one listed is the correct number... it just seems odd that the final ECW PPV (as in, one that wasn't WWE putting out a PPV under ECW's name) would spike to such a high buyrate after the rest never got higher than a .26.

 

Anyway, that one buyrate aside, I see no evidence of Heyman increasing PPV buys beyond his core audience.

[Sean Liska]

With all the money saved from booting out Angle, Jarrett, Russo and Dutch, I'm sure you could easily convince Cornette or Heyman to change their minds or get pretty much anyone else Dixie's heart desired to run the company. Cornette's and Heyman's lack of desire to book for TNA always seemed to me to be a power issue. With Jarrett and cronies around they would never have complete creative control and neither of them wanted to have all the headaches that would inevitably cause, having both hated being in that situation before in WCW and WWE. Of course, it's not going to happen, because I doubt Dixie is bold enough to get rid of both the company's biggest star and the company's founder.

Heyman seems to be the guy always trotted out as the guy to book TNA, but any check of his booking patterns have shown that while he may get matches people go nuts for, he is lousy at getting people to buy PPVs, which is what the business is based on these days. I've always said Heyman would be a good choice to put together house shows, but when it comes to building storylines to sell PPVs, his track record is poor.

 

 

Really? ECW was doing bigger buyrates than TNA is doing now back when they just had late-night syndicated TV and very few stars with national names. ECW could be in the 80,000-100,000 range, which TNA very rarely hits. That's amazing when you think about the resources of the respective companies. TNA has two hours of weekly prime time TV on a solid cable network with a roster including fomer WrestleMania main eventers. ECW was on MSG at 2AM on a Friday night. And ECW could still do bigger buyrates. The same can be said about how ECW could actually go on the road and run places consistenly while drawing 2,000-3,000 in their bigger markets, which TNA has been unable to do. TNA can't even draw enough fans to justify doing PPVs on the road anymore.

Saying ECW drew better buyrates than TNA ever has does not translate to Heyman knowing how to build storylines that sell PPVs. I have seen no evidence that ECW increased its buys beyond its core audience... a core audience that was, no doubt, more loyal to the company than TNA's core audience is. But comparing Company A to Company B does not prove anything, it's about comparing Company A's PPVs to each other, particularly from one year to the next, to see if whoever is in charge is increasing buys.

 

The only other buys you could evaluate Heyman by would be from the Smackdown era. I'm pretty sure the SummerSlam with Lesnar-Rock did well. I don't remember the other shows being out of the ordinary either way.

The comparison is to take the PPVs in which Heyman was doing a lot of the booking and comparing them to the shows of the previous year to see if interest was really being increased. Or compare WWE PPVs outside of the "big four" to see if there was a boost from one to the next.

 

People need to not buy too swiflty into this idea that Heyman is the cure for all that ails TNA. With Heyman, you'd get the X Division workers doing even more gimmick matches than they are currently doing, Abyss being allowed to run free with his hardcore antics, the Beautiful People being a trio of lesbians who get heat by trying to kiss their opponents, and very likely, Kurt Angle being thrown out there in 15-minute matches nearly every single Impact that may cause certain smart marks to cream themselves, but is going to add more wear and tear to Angle's body as he is encouraged to engage in "top this" in his matches.

 

Because stuff like that is the way Heyman operates.

 

I disagree with most of this. The fact that ECW was drawing decent numbers on PPV was a testament to the great marketing job Heyman did. I don't see how it can be a knock against him. No, they didn't do big numbers out of their "core audience". They were a distant #3 promotion with no production values, no star power, terrible TV slots, and the inability to hold onto any main event talent except Tommy Dreamer. That they had a core audience capable to supporting numbers north of 50,000-60,000 buys on a regular basis was great. You can critique him for not increasing buys during the TNN run, and I don't think anyone will point to that year as being his highlight. But he did lose two world champions, tag team champions, and a ton of other talent that year as well, to where he was forced to go with a Steve Corino-Justin Credible main event program.

 

People always point to the failure of ECW as a sign of Heyman's incompetence, like anything other than them becoming a full-fledged national promotion would be a failure. This is a company that was running every three weeks in a warehouse in a bad part of Philly off of the money Tod Gordon make from his pawn shop when Heyman started. It's not like they had TNA money. That they were ever able to get to PPV and national TV was a massive accomplishment. Who's ever started with so little and gotten so big without any type of money behind him? I'd assume Heyman would borrow a lot from MMA due to his relationship with Lesnar and fandom. He knows hardcore is passe.

 

I also disagree with your vision of how TNA would be run under Heyman, and I'd point to his OVW run as an example. There was no hardcore stuff, no profanity, and very little sex. And he still had people convinced that guys like Kennedy, Doane, Jeter, Cappotelli, and Punk were going to be big stars in the future. The only thing I would agree with is him destroying Angle's body, because he did have that tendency on SD and OVW. Not sure where the thing about X Division gimmick matches comes from since he's never been a big gimmick guy.

 

Of course, there's no way Heyman will end up in TNA, and I'd bet on the Jarrett-Angle thing becoming an angle within 6 months knowing their track records.

[Guest jaedmc]

Heyman has said "Never" in response to Jason Powell's editorial about Dixie firing JJ and bringing him in. So it's kind of moot. Then again, wrestlers and the rest of the world differ in their definition of "never."

 

So if Dixie is willing to drop Jarrett, I wonder who else in the company she'd be willing to lose that are apart of Jarrett's crew. It seems like Dutch and Russo are his guys, so I wonder how long before she decides to drop them too. I mean fans generally call for his(Russo's) head anyway. How a man with that kind of reputation among wrestling fans keeps a job is beyond me

 

Then again, it will probably go back to status quo and Jarrett will be back in the office in a couple of months.

[kjh]

The only thing I would agree with is him destroying Angle's body, because he did have that tendency on SD and OVW.

Both you and Bob forget that when Kurt Angle's health was at it's worst, Heyman repackaged Angle in a shoot fighter style gimmick for the new ECW, which was clearly designed to protect his ailing body by forcing him to do more matwork and less high spots.

 

I think Bob's right to remind people of Heyman's flaws as a booker, but still his track record suggests that he would do a much better job than TNA have recently done of differentiating the company from WWE, engendering fan loyalty and creating new stars, which would be a major step in the right direction.

 

With regards to Heyman's public proclamations of "never", I take them with a pinch of salt. What he says publicly and what he thinks privately could be polar opposites. It's not past Heyman to use the sheets to float his name out there, while publicly protesting his innocence.