Kurt Angle and Jeff Jarrett TNA Drama

[tsurutaman]

My point about the bookers wearing tights is they tend to have a limited shelf life. Even Dusty (arguably the most successful in both roles). You either have to have an incredible self awareness to know when something is working better than you are (like say Baba Did) and let it happen or have the eye for the business Watts did and make yourself a special attraction so you're not wrestling all the time but in special angles maybe once a year. Remember when he brought Dundee in with the Midnghts in at the end of '83 -- he didn't want Dundee as a performer -- just to book. Despite Dundee's obvious in ring abilities. It's a very tight balance. I'm not saying they can't book, but the temptation to keep putting yourself in the top program when other people are working better is usually too great for them to resist.

 

With Russo - agreed when he's been given unlimited power it's been a disaster. He needs a gatekeeper(s) to say "those 2 ideas are good Vince, but forget those 8 other ones". (Like he had with McMahon and gained this reputation)

[Loss]

The problem is that there is no one who is truly capable of acting as a filter for him that would be willing.

 

Also, he has failed in every single chance he has been given since leaving the WWF. He honestly is a large part of the reason wrestling is in the state it is now, and he really shouldn't have a job.

[tsurutaman]

The problem is that there is no one who is truly capable of acting as a filter for him that would be willing.

 

Also, he has failed in every single chance he has been given since leaving the WWF. He honestly is a large part of the reason wrestling is in the state it is now, and he really shouldn't have a job.

...other than at a video store ;0)

[Bob Morris]

The problem is that there is no one who is truly capable of acting as a filter for him that would be willing.

 

Also, he has failed in every single chance he has been given since leaving the WWF. He honestly is a large part of the reason wrestling is in the state it is now, and he really shouldn't have a job.

While I will not dispute Russo's failures as a booker, Vince McMahon has had just as many bad ideas as Russo has had.

 

With Russo working for McMahon, it wasn't so much McMahon filtered out his bad ideas, as it was that the process was Russo and others would write a rough draft for an upcoming show, McMahon would review it and make changes, those on creative and production would get together to further discuss it and a production meeting would be held a few hours prior to the show to finalize everything.

 

In WCW, Russo and others would write the script and there would be no reviewing, no other meetings held and if you asked WCW folks about holding a production meeting before the show, they would say "What's a production meeting?"

 

In other words, WCW's biggest problem was it had no organization whatsoever, with everything done "on the fly," meaning the only person who would have succeeded in booking in that environment would be somebody who could wield enough power to make higher ups realize that there needed to be more organization to begin with.

 

No doubt others would have booked better than Russo, but they ultimately would have ran into the same problem of a lack of organization in WCW and either would have left, burned out or seen their quality of booking slip.

 

As for TNA, Russo's booking hasn't been as haphazard as it was in WCW, as TNA at least seems to understand how to organize the process for producing shows. But his problems are still evident in that he keeps trying to do what worked for him in WWF, but not understanding how those elements really worked or came to be, and scripting interviews for wrestlers because he thinks those type of interviews sound cool.

 

For example, I'm sure Scott Steiner gets the interviews he gets because Russo saw Steiner's WCW interview a few years back where he ripped apart Ric Flair solely out of his own frustrations and axes to grind, thus Russo believes that's what Steiner's character should be, when in reality it does nothing to help anybody.

[Bix]

PWSpyware says:

 

*PWInsider.com can confirm that Jarrett and Karen Angle are romantically involved, as was revealed on Bubba the Love Sponge last week. As I noted yesterday, it's been an oft-mentioned rumor among wrestlers for many, many months.

 

*I was told by several people in the last 24 hours that Kurt Angle was aware of the relationship dating back to last fall when he was feuding with Jarrett.

 

*While TNA has declined to publicly comment on the situation, I am told that Jarrett's "time off" was a decision made by Jarrett, not something forced upon him by Dixie Carter.

 

*The decision was made after issues arose between Kurt and Karen Angle in regard to the custody of their children. The word among people at the TNA tapings is that Jarrett removed himself from his duties at TNA while that situation is ongoing. Until those issues became heated, Jarrett and Angle had been able to co-exist backstage.

 

*In regard to stories of Angle trying to get the TNA creative reigns, those within the company I spoke to today shot that idea down, feeling that it wouldn't happen. There is no major push for a new creative direction or team at this time.

 

*A number of people in the company would love to know who called the Bubba the Love Sponge show and "outed" the situation and there are some in the company that believe that the entire scenario was staged to out the issues. Why someone would do that, I couldn't begin to speculate on.

[Al]

Even Russo/McMahon booked WWF I find completely unwatchable in hindsight. I refuse to watch a promotion that Russo has any part of booking.

[Guest jaedmc]

I had a feeling that "Angle bookerman" was probably a rumor started by fans who are hoping for a creative change.

Pretty good call on JJ's part to walk(if it was indeed his call) when the custody battle between his alleged new girlfriend and number one star heated up. That feud where Angle kept bringing up Jarrett's kids takes on a different aura now.

[kjh]

I had a feeling that "Angle bookerman" was probably a rumor started by fans who are hoping for a creative change.

The "Angle bookerman" rumors were actually started by Angle himself. Reread the first post in this thread with Dave Meltzer's initial update on this story.

[Guest jaedmc]

I was looking at the update above and thought that people shooting down the rumors of him getting control canceled out the story of him telling people at a house show that he was.

Of course it's more interesting if he did say all of those things and it was all bullshit.

[jdw]

PWSpyware says:

 

*PWInsider.com can confirm that Jarrett and Karen Angle are romantically involved, as was revealed on Bubba the Love Sponge last week. As I noted yesterday, it's been an oft-mentioned rumor among wrestlers for many, many months.

 

Mr. Schemer is right on top of breaking this story. Wait... it's appeared in newsletters before this?

 

12. What gimmick was too far for even

Crash TV/Attitude Era pioneer Vince Russo

and his TNA boss Jeff Jarrett to use in their

years long push to get Jarrett over as a major,

money drawing star?

 

A. Revealing Jeff Jarrett as the gutsy founder

of the TNA promotion

 

B. Having Kurt Angle bring up Jill Jarrett’s

death from cancer to get heel heat on the TV show

 

C. Having Olympic Gold Medalist and

multi–time world champion Kurt Angle claim

that beating Jeff Jarrett would be the pinnacle of

his athletic career.

 

D. Booking the Hardcore Icon Mick Foley in

to play his best friend and closest ally in the

company that he founded, and you know, owns.

 

E. Having his other best friend, B.G. James,

cry on TV and get his leg broken by Angle.

 

F. Have Kurt Angle become more obsessed

with wrestling and beating Jeff Jarrett than he

ever was with winning an Olympic gold medal.

 

G. Having Kurt Angle become so obsessed

with Jarrett he threatened to come to Jarrett’s

house and “see” his three beautiful young

daughters.

 

H. Having Kurt Angle make good on that

threat, only to have Karen Angle answer

Jarrett’s door.

 

Answer Key: 1. D… 2. E… 3. D… 4. D…

5. D… 6. D… 7. C & D… 8. E… 9. D… 10.

A… 11. F… 12. H… 13. No answer… 14. E…

15. D… 16. E… 17. A – Both, B – Both, C –

McMahon, D – Bush, E – Both, F – Both, G –

Bush, H – McMahon, I – Both, J – Both… 18.

E… 19. True… 20. C… 21. R… 22. E… 23. I

think this was already a Headline Analysis….

24. C… 25. E… 26. B… 27. E… 28. D… 29.

C… 30. E… 31. E… 32. F… 33. E… 34. E…

35. It’s a real unsolved mystery…. 36. E…

 

-Bruce Mitchell’s Pro Wrestling Torch 18th

Annual [2008] Year In Review Quiz

 

 

 

John

[Guest Kenta Batista]

Personally I don’t see the drama in this story. I mean, I’m smart enough to get, WHY this is a drama to other people. But I think, the whole thing is pretty embarrassing. Obviously starting an affair with the Ex of a co-worker is risky and maybe unprofessional thing to do. But whoever gets too worked up on that should check his own life and values.As far as Kurt goes, I really ask myself, what his deal is? Is he just playing his ex-wife as a sexual card to gain more in power in TNA? Or is he really infantile enough to get angry about his Ex having other guys multiple months after their separation?

 

Kurt is a tremendous athlete and performer. He is NOT ready to head a creative team! He has pretty much been in control of his own character etc. since being at TNA and the proof in my statement is how he is now perceived. Its unfortunately that THIS one event will be the event that people will be able to point to in the future when TNA is down and out for the count. This will be the event above all else where people will think to themselves 'Damn, ONE WOMAN brought down an entire company." Oh its true! Its damn true!

[Bob Morris]

Kenta may be right that this ordeal with Jeff Jarrett may be the nail in the coffin for TNA. Despite people's criticisms of Jarrett, I've already mentioned that he's done more to elevate talent than any of the other established guys, hasn't been as selfish as he was before, and Jeff Hamlin raised a good point that Jarrett is the guy who has helped reign in Vince Russo (and Dutch Mantel, although Hamlin didn't specifically say his name) when it comes to booking.

 

The most recent Impact is the perfect example, in which while you didn't have multiple run-ins during matches, the booking included about three different swerves in the same night.

[JHawk]

Kenta may be right that this ordeal with Jeff Jarrett may be the nail in the coffin for TNA. Despite people's criticisms of Jarrett, I've already mentioned that he's done more to elevate talent than any of the other established guys, hasn't been as selfish as he was before, and Jeff Hamlin raised a good point that Jarrett is the guy who has helped reign in Vince Russo (and Dutch Mantel, although Hamlin didn't specifically say his name) when it comes to booking.

 

The most recent Impact is the perfect example, in which while you didn't have multiple run-ins during matches, the booking included about three different swerves in the same night.

And a pole match that didn't end with somebody climbing the pole. You know, the only way to end the match.

 

Sad that I could probably do a better job of booking TNA at this point.

[Guest Kenta Batista]

Jeff's comment to Angle about him not being the only one who lost his wife, now has double meaning. OOOOOHHH! ITZ DA SHOOTZ~!

[kjh]

Dutch Mantell and Savio Vega get the boot. More cuts are coming supposedly.

[JHawk]

And yet Russo still has a job. Can I apply for TNA booker?

[sek69]

You know, I can't help but think a lot of the stuff in TNA that people chant "Fire Russo" over was really Mantel's. He got this rep for being a great booker, but he's just the 2009 version of Bill Watts trying to book WCW like it was the mid 70s. It seemed his entire bag of tricks was shit that got over in Puerto Rico 20 years ago (or whenever the hell it was when he booked there).

[Loss]

He booked there in like 2003-2004 I think, or there about, right before he came to TNA, and was successful.

 

I think a booker is handicapped coming in to TNA, no matter who they are, because they have too many masters to serve. Dusty Rhodes has had spells of both good and bad booking, but his time booking TNA wasn't very good, while his brief spell doing Smackdown shortly after that was a lot of fun.

 

Ideally, the booker is executing the promoter's vision. Dusty booked under Graham, Crockett, Herd, Frey, Watts, and Bischoff, and each version was different because each version had different goals. The problem is that in TNA, I'm not sure the promoter really has much of a vision.

[sek69]

It seems like, for good or bad, there's only one master in TNA (for now) and that was Jeff Jarrett. Even Vince Russo is there because he's pals with JJ.

 

Also being successful in Puerto Rico and being successful in TNA are two different scenarios. Puerto Rico is pretty much the last territory-style area left, and history has shown that what works in a territory situation is different than what works on a national level. I know that opens the door to a lot of "lol TNA is no better than a territory" jokes, but it still is the #2 promotion in the US even if by default.

[Tim Evans]

Didn't Dutch also book some time in Memphis and Championship wrestling from Florida?

[Bix]

Not sure about Memphis but it wouldn't surprise me. He definitely booked Florida for a very brief period.

[tomk]

I've seen a lot of Dutch booking and it's hit or miss. Dutch does a lot of bad comedy booking that's distinctively Dutch and lots of slow face turn stuff that's really effective. Also should be said that Dutch left WWC to book for for IWA Puerto Rico which was less "territorial" booking and more hip TV booking with territorial echoes.

 

But what were the things that Dutch was involved in booking that Russo took the blame for?

 

Most of the stuff that got "Fire Russo" chants was really Russo ish booking.

[Ditch]

After reading the latest WON, where Dave muses about how incredibly low the buyrate-to-ratings ratio is in TNA, I got to thinking about Russo's past. WCW got the exact same way when he was booking. I know that WWF buyrates went up in '98-'99, and of course there's the "Russo only works with Vince's heavy hand" factor, but I'm thinking that the ratio wasn't all that good in '99 compared to several years this decade where ratings were half or less and buyrates were comparable or only slightly below. And I'm talking domestic buys.

[Guest Kenta Batista]

Has anyone heard if any of the workers plan on leaving if Jeff leaves.

 

Some people the change maybe a turn for the product that they disagree with. Almost like how the Radicals left WCW. I know AJ, EY, Abyss, Roode, Storm and few others are pretty tight with Jeff. Any chance they may say "if Jeff gets the ax then we walk"?

[MikeCampbell]

Has anyone heard if any of the workers plan on leaving if Jeff leaves.

 

Some people the change maybe a turn for the product that they disagree with. Almost like how the Radicals left WCW. I know AJ, EY, Abyss, Roode, Storm and few others are pretty tight with Jeff. Any chance they may say "if Jeff gets the ax then we walk"?

I'm sure they might *say* it, but saying it and doing it are two different things. They've got to know how unlikely it is that they'll get picked up by WWE, and they can't make the living working indies that they can in TNA. History has shown that workers *say* a lot, but don't always back it up. Mick was adamant that he was done after Montreal, but he came back. When the Radicalz left WCW it started out as a large group, and it was just the four at the end.