The History of the World Heavyweight Championship

[KrisZ]

It wasn't Flair blowing them off himself perse it was Crockett wanting to keep Flair in the NWA areas that were still left to defend such as Florida, Continental, Portland, & Central States because he could do a couple of shots then come back for Crockett's big house shows.

[KrisZ]

One would have to take a look. Flair at the time was blowing off All Japan trips left and right. He *may* have blown one off in that period, though I'd have to check the WON and the schedules. Their big series climaxed 7/31/86 with Jumbo-Hansen for the AWA & Int'l Title, with Hansen winning the Int'l title. Also had Tenryu-Yatsu for the UN Title. Perhaps that was originally planned to have both the AWA and NWA Titles on the card. Hansen walked out on dropping the AWA Title because Baba already had those AWA defenses in that series booked. Maybe Flair had been promised as well.

 

It was clear a while out that JCP was going to be doing the Bash from July 1 to August 2. July 26, 1986 was going to be Flair-Rhodes headlining Greensboro, and of course Flair would need to headline August 2, 1986 in the stadium in Atlanta. Perhaps there was a plan for Flair to go to Japan between those shows for the July 31 card. Lose a day going... fly out on August 1, get the day back but losing it going across country to work on August 2. It does kind of fit in.

 

But having had the title since May 1984, it seemed kind of clear that Flair was ripe to drop it during the Bash. And Dusty was, sadly, the guy to do it given the chase going back to Starcade 1984 (and beyond). Crockett would have had to have shared it with Baba. Perhaps the original plan was August 2, and it got moved to Greensboro?

 

Well, pretty clear range of WON's to take a look at from roughly May to August 1986. But might also be worthwhile to check the entire year as I recall Flair blew off something like 3 out of 4 trips.

 

John

I don't know John, they had Ricky Morton so hot as a babyface along with Magnum that any of those two could've been champs over Dusty but since Dusty was booking and Crockett was his biggest fan everyone knew the deal.

[Loss]

I think Ricky Morton getting in Flair's face and pushing him to the limit is really the best thing about the Crockett era. 1986 was a banner year because they had so many fresh faces and were putting people in key spots where they got over. The same thing was happening with Dusty being programmed with the Midnights and Cornette.

[khawk20]

One would have to take a look. Flair at the time was blowing off All Japan trips left and right. He *may* have blown one off in that period, though I'd have to check the WON and the schedules. Their big series climaxed 7/31/86 with Jumbo-Hansen for the AWA & Int'l Title, with Hansen winning the Int'l title. Also had Tenryu-Yatsu for the UN Title. Perhaps that was originally planned to have both the AWA and NWA Titles on the card. Hansen walked out on dropping the AWA Title because Baba already had those AWA defenses in that series booked. Maybe Flair had been promised as well.

A bit off-topic, but since Hansen defended the AWA title on that tour anyways, I never got why Baba having the title defenses booked made a difference in whether or not Hansen dropped the title to Bock in Denver the night before he left for Japan.

 

There were Japanese tapers there that night, but was a Hansen pinfall loss being recorded still a big issue at that point? It's not like they had to ever show the damn thing on Japanese TV.

 

Just wondering...please return to your regulrarly scheduled discussion...

[jdw]

It wasn't Flair blowing them off himself perse it was Crockett wanting to keep Flair in the NWA areas that were still left to defend such as Florida, Continental, Portland, & Central States because he could do a couple of shots then come back for Crockett's big house shows.

I agree on the reasons for this: Crockett and Flair stopped co-opperating as much with Baba, and kept coming up with reasons for Flair not making trips. I recall there was one where the cover story was especially poor since Flair promptly worked JCP house shows.

 

I just like using the phrase "Flair blew of tours". In a sense, while sort of an employee of JCP at that point, he also was the NWA Champ of what was left of the NWA. Other than JCP, Baba ran the top NWA territory. He wasn't terribly demanding: not that many shows a year. Flair chose JCP over NWA Champ, and it kind of needs to be added to his legacy.

 

John

[jdw]

I don't know John, they had Ricky Morton so hot as a babyface along with Magnum that any of those two could've been champs over Dusty but since Dusty was booking and Crockett was his biggest fan everyone knew the deal.

I'm assuming the first part is a joke, incase it isn't...

 

They were never going to make Ricky Morton the World Champ during the Bash. You know that and I do.

 

Maggie's primary Bash storyline was trying to get back "his" US Title against the Evil Russian. He wasn't going to win the NWA Title during it. We all knew that at the time.

 

Look at the other challengers. Road Warriors? Wasn't going to happen. Gibson? No. Can't recall of Ronnie Garvin had one of the shots, but at the time we couldn't imagine that Garvin was going to win it.

 

I watched at the time. Going into it, I guessed Dusty was going to win it. Greensboro seemed the likely place, with Atlanta being the #2 place. Greensboro was the capital of the territory. Atlanta seemed possibly because it was the final show, they could work the story of Flair being "worn out" by the end of it and it would "climax" the Bash in the final show. Flair would have it back in no time, and I thought it would be this one to "open" the town:

 

August 28, 1986: Los Angeles, CA

 

We were getting Dusty-Flair on it. The NWA Title would have been ripe at the time, as would have been the NWA World Tag Title (MX due to drop it back to the R'n'R). When Flair got the belt back in St Louis, I expected it then to be the NWA World Tag Title to change in LA. I was susprised when the tag titles changed in Philly two weeks out.

 

We did end up getting a title change on the card: Wahoo beating Tully for the National Title. It was a nice bone, but I think they made a mistake.

 

Anyway...

 

The only person who was winning the title from Flair during the Bash was Dusty. Getting jobbed out of consecutive Starcade's in addition to originally dropping the belt to Flair meant he was going to get his payback. It seemed pretty obvious.

 

John

 

t the time I didn't get that Dusty wouldn't give a shit about

[jdw]

A bit off-topic, but since Hansen defended the AWA title on that tour anyways, I never got why Baba having the title defenses booked made a difference in whether or not Hansen dropped the title to Bock in Denver the night before he left for Japan.

 

There were Japanese tapers there that night, but was a Hansen pinfall loss being recorded still a big issue at that point? It's not like they had to ever show the damn thing on Japanese TV.

 

Just wondering...please return to your regulrarly scheduled discussion...

If Hansen jobbed, it would have been reported in the mags and newspapers, which lots of fans read at the time. It's kind of hard to promote an AWA Title Match when Hansen already dropped the title, and everyone knew about it.

 

The Japanese wrestling press was likely willing to cover up a lot of stuff for Baba, but that's a hard one to ignore.

 

Since Hansen "walked out" without dropping the title, one could reasonably say in Japan that he was still the Japan. Baba delt with the issue by putting the Int'l Title on Hansen in the title vs title match, so it was safe to send the AWA Title back to Verne and Hansen still had the Int'l to defend.

 

From Hansen's standpoint, you've been told when coming to the building that you're dropping the title. Baba had literally bought the title for him. Knowing how Baba planned things out extremely carefully rather than Russo-style booking, he and Verne probably had a pretty clearly agreed upon date when Hansen would drop the title back. Since Baba was booking the 7/31 show, it pretty clearly was *after* that point. So Hansen is thrown an ad-lib by an asshole promoter, which is what Verne was. It's not like you can pull out your cell phone, call the Babas and hash things out. Different era. He was pretty much on his own to make a decision. Baba was where his bread was buttered. He chose to protect Baba's investment, and walked out.

 

There are a lot of "walking out" and "not dropping the title" spots that I think are pretty much bullshit. Even Our Hero Ric refusing to drop the NWA Title to Lex or Barry while holding up the company for an extension with a year to run on his contract was bullshit. Hansen's is one of the rare ones where I agree with it since Verne was basically going against Verne's agreement with Baba on the belt.

 

John

[KrisZ]

Yeah I didn't mean Magnum winning at the Bash but right after it which the plan was for Starrcade. Morton was very credible at that time and drew bigger houses with Flair in some towns than Dusty so a 1 week reign like Dusty had wouldn't have been the worst thing. Another thing about the JCP/AJPW situation in 1986 was that Crockett sent talent regularly and then at the end of the year you had Baba bring his boys for their vacation to Crockett towns so the blood must not have been as bad as we think.

 

Regarding the Flair bit and walking out, I think that Flair's cause was helped because of how big a tool Jim Herd was.

[jdw]

Yeah I didn't mean Magnum winning at the Bash but right after it which the plan was for Starrcade. Morton was very credible at that time and drew bigger houses with Flair in some towns than Dusty so a 1 week reign like Dusty had wouldn't have been the worst thing.

I don't think Maggie was ever going to win the title in 1986, especially at Starcade. Look at Dusty's booking of title turnarounds after getting the book in JCP and being opposite the Hogan Dynasty in the WWF:

 

1984: Nothing

1985: Nothing

1986: Flair --> Dusty --> Flair around the Bash payoff

1987: Flair --> Garvin --> Flair to set up and payoff at Starcade

1988: Nothing

 

Sure, he tried to screw over Flair at Starcade 1988 in the power struggle. But the point is: Dusty in that era didn't bounce the title around.

 

If the Bash was going to climax with a title change, it was going to be Dusty given:

 

* his stature as a World Champ level guy

 

* Maggie being tied up with Nikita

 

No one else was at the level of the first item, not even Maggie. Had not Maggie's career hit the wall, Dusty would have made him chase it... similar to how Dusty himself was constantly chasing the title. When would the payoff have been? Perhaps Starcade 1987 or the Bash 1987... who knows. But he wasn't going to do two title chances in 1986.

 

Morton... just wasn't goingt to happen. Tag team specialist. They were expanding nationally, and they never were going to put the title on him opposite Hogan.

 

 

Another thing about the JCP/AJPW situation in 1986 was that Crockett sent talent regularly and then at the end of the year you had Baba bring his boys for their vacation to Crockett towns so the blood must not have been as bad as we think.

JCP didn't send talent that much. The Roadies had their own deal with Baba. Flair was more an "NWA" deal rather than a Crockett deal, and once it became a Crockett deal it hit the wall. In the back of my mind, I recall Nikita going over there... but it's not like he did anything. Arn, Tully, the MX... not really a blip. The R'n'R did like one tour of Japan if I recall... I'm really scratching my head at many having much impact or even filling up the undercard much.

 

Baba seemed to be getting his gaijin all over the place. Guys that he had his own deals with like Hansen, DiBiase and Gordy. The Funks still coming in, especially after leaving the WWF. Hennig on occassion.

 

Regarding the Flair bit and walking out, I think that Flair's cause was helped because of how big a tool Jim Herd was.

He's Our Hero Ric, so of course he's going to be "right" in his battles with Herd.

 

John

[KrisZ]

Ole Anderson, Krusher Khruschev, Ivan & Nikita, & Brad Armstrong all got tours that year and regularly might not have been the best word but definitely more guys than normal.

[kjh]

Regarding the Flair bit and walking out, I think that Flair's cause was helped because of how big a tool Jim Herd was.

He's Our Hero Ric, so of course he's going to be "right" in his battles with Herd.

A bit like he's Our Enemy the Anabolic Warrior, so of course everyone believes at the time he's "wrong" in his battles with Vince in the summer of 1991.

[jdw]

Ole Anderson, Krusher Khruschev, Ivan & Nikita, & Brad Armstrong all got tours that year and regularly might not have been the best word but definitely more guys than normal.

Agree on the Russians (working one tour I think) and Ole (ditto). Brad was before Crockett (which was late in the year).

 

It was all over the place on gaijin. Windham & Rotundo were when they were in FL early in the year. Roadies were a Baba deal from before Crockett, and it seemed to take some priority over the Crockett deal. Hansen, DiBiase and Gordy were a long term Baba guys. One Man Gang was... where in February? Was he still in World Class, or jumping to UWF. Tiger Jeet was popping up. Tom Magee? Mil and Harley were old timers brought in, with Harley getting a title shot at Jumbo. The Funks came in later in the year after they left the WWF. Martel and Zenk came in before they went to the WWF, and Martel had spent a good chunk of the year out of the limelight after dropping the title to Hansen. Paul Diamond?

 

It's a bit similar to the 70s: Baba was using all sorts of talent rather than just one or two sources.

 

John

[KrisZ]

Gang was in World Class, Brad went to Crockett right after he got back from the Summer tour.

 

Here is what I've seen and this isn't a complete list although I can get one when I have time.

 

Blackwell, Windham, Rotundo, Race, Gang, Tiger Jeet, Gordy, DiBiase, Mil, Brad, Hansen, Ole, Russians, Rheingans, Funks, Martel, Zenk, & Magee.

[jdw]

Gang was in World Class, Brad went to Crockett right after he got back from the Summer tour.

 

Really? The tour ran through the end of July. I'm pretty sure he went back to Bama:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NWA_Southeast...ht_Championship

 

And I thought Brad didn't get to Crockett until later. WWEHistory.com's JPC section has him showing up on TBS on the 10/12/86, and at house shows in 10/01/86. That makes sense given the blow off of his last title run in Bama.

 

 

 

 

Here is what I've seen and this isn't a complete list although I can get one when I have time.

 

Blackwell, Windham, Rotundo, Race, Gang, Tiger Jeet, Gordy, DiBiase, Mil, Brad, Hansen, Ole, Russians, Rheingans, Funks, Martel, Zenk, & Magee.

Pretty complete. Dan's new set also shows Paul Diamond. There probably are others who didn't make TV working lower.

 

 

John

[KrisZ]

Yeah I forgot he came back to do his jobs.

[Marty]

Because Canada's assbackwards compared to the U.S. (or maybe it's the other way around!) we got this set first and the Jeff Hardy set is two weeks from now instead.

 

Just to clear up some stuff mentioned earlier:

- The Rogers title win is in full. The poster making the assumption earlier would be correct.

- The Funks' wins are JIP near the end, also as mentioned. Solie on commentary.

- Rhodes' win is, in fact, his first. They got that one correct. It's also heavily clipped, like his 2nd win in Atlanta. Solie and Rhodes are on commentary.

- Every other match is in full, as expected.

 

The documentary is about an hour. Presented in hilarious WWE fashion, as one might expect. Lots of stuff glossed over. Lots of the usual people interviewed, and they also dug out clips of 1994 interviews with guys like Thesz and Kiniski. Kiniski was kayfabing his loss to Dory in hilarious fashion. Also, they brought back Mike Chapman as the "historian", which JDW will LOVE. Chapman gave the old story of wrestling becoming entertainment strictly (or fake) in the 1920s due to Lewis and Stecher beating the heck out of each other and that taking their toll on them. Bix will LOVE that.

[S.L.L.]

Chapman gave the old story of wrestling becoming entertainment strictly (or fake) in the 1920s due to Lewis and Stecher beating the heck out of each other and that taking their toll on them. Bix will LOVE that.

Wait, this is a retcon of the traditional narrative, isn't it? Old narrative was that Toots Mondt basically invented wrestling as we know it in 1915 with the Gold Dust Trio because real wrestling was too boring and Mondt's "Slam Bang Western Style Wrestling" would make more money. This is kind of a surprise.

 

I may be getting my wrestling historians mixed up...is Chapman the one who refuses to believe that Frank Gotch ever worked a match? I'm trying to figure out if this turn of events is more or less surprising coming from him. That is, assuming it was coming from him and not handed down from the mountain by WWE, which would be even more baffling if only because it would mean they would actually care enough to change the narrative.

[khawk20]

- Rhodes' win is, in fact, his first. They got that one correct. It's also heavily clipped, like his 2nd win in Atlanta. Solie and Rhodes are on commentary.

I assume they did not show the clips of Rhode's loss or the angle surrounding that loss?

 

Too bad, as the whole thing together works so much better than any piece by itself of that whole five day switch-fest.

[vikingsfan73]

I may be getting my wrestling historians mixed up...is Chapman the one who refuses to believe that Frank Gotch ever worked a match?

Yep, that's Mike!

[Marty]

Yeah, Chapman pretty much repeated that talking point in the documentary about Gotch never actually working a match.

 

I assume they did not show the clips of Rhode's loss or the angle surrounding that loss?

 

Too bad, as the whole thing together works so much better than any piece by itself of that whole five day switch-fest.

They don't during the extra, and I can't remember if it was part of the documentary. The extra is similar to all those CWF 70s clips of big matches with Solie and someone else narrating.

 

Might have been shown in the doc, but I have my doubts.

 

Forgot to mention that the reigns of Sid, Jarrett, Russo and Arquette all get buried and mentioned as low points. No other reign got buried.

[Al]

- Rhodes' win is, in fact, his first. They got that one correct. It's also heavily clipped, like his 2nd win in Atlanta. Solie and Rhodes are on commentary.

I assume they did not show the clips of Rhode's loss or the angle surrounding that loss?

 

Too bad, as the whole thing together works so much better than any piece by itself of that whole five day switch-fest.

 

Can someone give me a rundown of this angle?

[Wahoos Leg]

Got a copy of this through work pre-release but haven't had time to watch yet. Looking forward to diving in.

[Bix]

- Rhodes' win is, in fact, his first. They got that one correct. It's also heavily clipped, like his 2nd win in Atlanta. Solie and Rhodes are on commentary.

I assume they did not show the clips of Rhode's loss or the angle surrounding that loss?

 

Too bad, as the whole thing together works so much better than any piece by itself of that whole five day switch-fest.

 

Can someone give me a rundown of this angle?

 

Race won the title back by DQ and I'm pretty sure it wasn't acknowledge in the Apter mags or on NWA shows outside of Florida.

[khawk20]

- Rhodes' win is, in fact, his first. They got that one correct. It's also heavily clipped, like his 2nd win in Atlanta. Solie and Rhodes are on commentary.

I assume they did not show the clips of Rhode's loss or the angle surrounding that loss?

 

Too bad, as the whole thing together works so much better than any piece by itself of that whole five day switch-fest.

 

Can someone give me a rundown of this angle?

 

Race won the title back by DQ and I'm pretty sure it wasn't acknowledge in the Apter mags or on NWA shows outside of Florida.

 

It wasn't.

 

The basics of it:

-Rhodes wins title from Race

-rematch 5 nights later. Rhodes comes into the ring first (? he was champ)

-Terry Funk appears from the crowd and attacks Rhodes, ultimately jumping on his arm from the top rope and breaking it.

-Race comes to ring at this point. Other wrestlers came down and got Funk out of there

-Rhodes wants to wrestle, other faces beg him not to

-Rhodes wrestles the match one-armed. he did an awesome job of selling it, and Race worked it over throughout the match. The clips of this match illustrate Race working over the arm, it's good.

 

Now, putting this into perspective, because of a ruling in the Rhodes win where one of them wasn't DQed for an over the top rope infraction, the NWA specifically made this match one where the title could changes hands on a DQ.

 

you know what happens next....

-Race sets Dusty for a piledriver by the ropes. Dusty backdrops race to get out of it..right out of the ring. Camera freezes as race is in mid-deposit over the top.

 

This led sooner than later to a violent feud between Rhodes and Funk in Florida.

 

But wait, there's more...

 

The clips of both title matches were played with Dusty in the studio with Solie. They commentated on the first match, took a break, and came back and showed the film of the second one complete with all that I described above. Rhodes is getting angrier and angrier throughout the clip.

 

When it finishes, they go back to the studio, where Rhodes and Solie talk more about it. Out comes Jos Leduc, to tell Mr. Solie that he paid for that interview time and it was his turn.

 

Solie puts off Leduc for a few minutes, noting that the changing of the NWA title and the circumstances around it were huge news and needed the airtime. He would get his time but after.

 

Leduc leaves, and Rhodes continues talking...for about 5 seconds, and leduc comes back with a chair and gets ready to sit down saying he paid for the interview time and he wasn't leaving. Rhodes gets up to leave, and Leduc makes a comment about Rhodes running or losing the belt or something. Rhodes attacks Leduc and brains him with the cast on his broken arm, sending Jos over the desk to the floor. Solie goes to say something and Rhodes LOSES it, cutting an angry promo over the fallen Leduc. Rhodes leaves. A few prelim guys come out and help Jos to the dressing room, half-concious and bleeding from the forehead.

 

This led to a Rhodes-Leduc feud for a while, porbably before the Terry Funk one started in earnest as I think a Leduc-Rhodes blowoff chain match had Funk run-in and get their real feud going.

 

***

The clips from Florida TV for this are only about 8 minutes long for everything I described above, but it's excellent and extremely effective in taking the focus off of Rhodes losing the NWA title via DQ, which is still at it's base one of themost rediculous things I've ever seen.

 

Hope that helps. For those that want to see it, it should all be on Will's Funk set whenever he releases it.

[jdw]

On Chapman, yeah... he's the one who will never cop to Gotch being a worker. He has too much invested in Gotch at this point to: it's pretty much his entire legacy when it comes to "pro wrestling historian".

 

I also think in the past he's been willing to put over Caddock as the real deal, which pushes "fake" out to 1920 after Caddock dropped the title to Stecher to start Joe's second reign.

 

So I think it's being consistent here. Wrong, but consistently wrong.

 

John