January 4

[Slasher]

The frustrating thing about the Bret angle is that Shawn got to say Bret was in the wrong and that he disrespected the business, but it happened 12 years ago. Bret got to make no points in return about Shawn.

 

You could say the same about Bret and Vince. Vince refuses to come out when Bret asks him to, only doing it on his own terms. Bret still thinks Vince's apology is sincere, and the kick in the gut catches him off guard.

 

He just looked really dumb.

 

The TNA show was just so, so, so terrible. Hall and Nash look ridiculously old -- they look older than Hogan.

It's the WWE. Vince will never admit they were in the wrong (and really you can argue for both sides here anyways). And the Vince/Bret thing is called an angle... if they had Bret and Vince celebrating to end the night, there is no reason for Bret to return the next three months and have a match with Vince at Mania. Sure they could have had Bret lay a challenge to Vince, but after the Shawn segment, it would come off as Bret being bitter still. This way the segment painted Vince as the one unwilling to move on, and it worked IMO. Really, you are just nitpicking here, much like when you complained about Jericho's haircut and vest when he came back. Jericho's run turned out pretty good, didn't it?

[tigerpride]

The frustrating thing about the Bret angle is that Shawn got to say Bret was in the wrong and that he disrespected the business, but it happened 12 years ago. Bret got to make no points in return about Shawn.

Bret made his point. The WWE Universe knows that HBK can say all he wants, but they believe him and they know that he was in the right.

 

He wasn't there to argue Montreal or who was right. He simply wanted closure, to move on, and to have his career be remembered for things besides Montreal.

 

HBK teasing the superkick was awesome.

 

And did Jeff Hardy really turn down millions of dollars so he wouldn't have to pee in a cup?

[Loss]

The frustrating thing about the Bret angle is that Shawn got to say Bret was in the wrong and that he disrespected the business, but it happened 12 years ago. Bret got to make no points in return about Shawn.

 

You could say the same about Bret and Vince. Vince refuses to come out when Bret asks him to, only doing it on his own terms. Bret still thinks Vince's apology is sincere, and the kick in the gut catches him off guard.

 

He just looked really dumb.

 

The TNA show was just so, so, so terrible. Hall and Nash look ridiculously old -- they look older than Hogan.

It's the WWE. Vince will never admit they were in the wrong (and really you can argue for both sides here anyways). And the Vince/Bret thing is called an angle... if they had Bret and Vince celebrating to end the night, there is no reason for Bret to return the next three months and have a match with Vince at Mania. Sure they could have had Bret lay a challenge to Vince, but after the Shawn segment, it would come off as Bret being bitter still. This way the segment painted Vince as the one unwilling to move on, and it worked IMO. Really, you are just nitpicking here, much like when you complained about Jericho's haircut and vest when he came back. Jericho's run turned out pretty good, didn't it?

 

I figured the night would end with Vince not wanting closure and Bret finally punching him in the face to end the show. Vince spends the next few weeks begging for Bret to come back and Bret goading him into a match at Wrestlemania, and so on. The angle will still work fine, so I'm not saying they've blown it or anything like that, but in some ways, the less they do between now and Mania, the better, because the storyline is already built.

 

I do like that they cleared the Bret/Shawn backstory as quickly as possible so Shawn wouldn't be the focus of Bret/Vince.

 

I am also curious what other ancillary wrestlers Bret will interact with as part of this feud.

 

Jericho was a disaster as a babyface, by the way, and ended up dropping the vest eventually.

[Cox]

Yeah, actually in a way, Bret not saying anything about Montreal was the perfect thing his character could have done. It shows that he has moved past Montreal, even if Shawn and Vince have not. He came to Raw to forgive and move on, and by not insisting on telling his side of the story, it showed his sincerity. I'm not sure if that was a planned nuance by the writing team or if it was just a by-product of Vince's ego not giving Bret fair time, but it actually kind of worked.

[Marty]

I agree with those who felt Bret saying little about Montreal worked. Felt like he was the better man in comparison to Vince and Shawn. That all said, the promotion over the years has done such an effective job of portraying Bret as the guy who wouldn't shut up about Montreal (when in reality they've also done it alot) that if those segments turned into heavy debates, it might've elicitied a negative reaction from the same fanbase that has also likely believed that to some degree. But they also wanted to have Bret be an solid babyface here, so this worked out, in my opinion. Plus, the weeks building to it portrayed Vince as the guy who wouldn't let go, so the continuity here was pretty consistent.

 

As for both shows as a whole, I pretty much agree with what Cox said here, and what Bix said in his blog at SB Nation. Thought RAW was fairly solid, if unspectacular. The tag match was decent enough, and to some degree, I'm sad to see Big Show likely out of the tag title running, because he was one of the few guys I felt could work effectively with both HHH and HBK (especially Shawn). Really liked Shawn constantly trying to knock Show down with the forearms, but failing. Orton and Kingston didn't have their best match, but it was solid. Much has been said about the Bret segments that don't need repeating, but I liked the Jericho one the best (that said, it was pre-taped) as those two have pretty darn good chemistry. Makes me wish Bret was in good wrestling health, as a program between the two would be fun. Rest of the show was what it was. I don't care for Evan Bourne being a guy fed to Sheamus, but I understand why it was done.

 

Impact was an absolute mess. One advantage I looked at with them going to Monday was the potential to draw WWE viewers over, but that first match was the worst way they could do it. Doubt most WWE fans would know (or care) about the participants, but also having a guy who's a legit draw involved with them as well? Mind-boggling. (By the way, can we put Jeff Hardy conning Dixie Carter into the greatest cons thread?) The endless censorship of crowd chants, among other things, hurt the enjoyment of the show too. I too felt that the Styles-Angle match is a leading candidate for Most Overrated Match Of The Year (judging by the reaction at other places). The Hogan/Bischoff/nWo/Jarrett/Foley stuff has trainwreck written all over it, maybe trainwreck appeal potential depending who you are. Nash and Hall both looked awful. I had my doubts about how Bret would appear (having met him two years ago) but he looked like a guy made for TV compared to the very broken down Nash and not-looking-so-sober Hall.

[Loss]

Yeah, Bret looked a little older, but he just looked like a guy who had slightly aged. He looked really great considering he had a stroke.

 

I noticed he was a little more soft spoken than in the past, but that's usually typical of most wrestlers cutting their first promo returning after a long absence. After they have a week or two to get back in the wrestling mindset, the delivery comes back. Bret was by no means bad last night, but I think he'll be even better after he gets comfortable in this angle.

[jdw]

Was wrestling always this bad and I'm just now noticing?

It's been this shitty for ages.

 

Don't forget: there also was a NJ Tokyo Dome with NJ vs NOAH matches on it. If it were 01/04/97 and even a *normal* NJ Dome show, let alone a NJ vs AJ theme, we would have seriously given a shit about it.

 

John

[Cox]

Reading the Tokyo Dome results, it sure seemed weird to see Terry Funk and Abdullah the Butcher working for New Japan in any decade, let alone in 2010.

[Phil Schneider]

Was wrestling always this bad and I'm just now noticing?

It's been this shitty for ages.

 

Don't forget: there also was a NJ Tokyo Dome with NJ vs NOAH matches on it. If it were 01/04/97 and even a *normal* NJ Dome show, let alone a NJ vs AJ theme, we would have seriously given a shit about it.

 

John

 

Lucha really sucks now too.

[Ditch]

Reading the Tokyo Dome results, it sure seemed weird to see Terry Funk and Abdullah the Butcher working for New Japan in any decade, let alone in 2010.

Terry Funk has now worked on New Japan shows in three different decades!

[khawk20]

Is it plausible to think that Bret, having suffered a stroke (albeit years ago), won't wrestle Vince in a one-on-one match at mania, and instead it'll be some sort of 6-man with the Younger hart group and Bret vs. Vince and a few wrestler cronies?

 

That would make more sense to me. You protect Bret (if he needs it, and it wouldn't surprise me if he did) and help get the new hart kids over at the biggest show of the year at the same time.

 

just asking...I caught only bits and pieces of both last night. Bret-vince was WAAAAAAY too long considering a monkey knew what the outcome was going to be, and I saw jarrett come out and give a super-charged emotional speech on Impact, just to be buried by Hogan immediately afterwards, and not in a way that promotes any sort of feud between the two, imo.

 

that was more than enough for me.

[Bob Morris]

The way I saw TNA was like this: "I've heard this song before."

 

Not in terms of I've seen these guys do their thing so many times before, but in terms of I've seen promises about "things are going to change" delivered before, but nothing truly satisfying is delivered.

 

TNA seems to think that throwing out a ton of stuff at once is going to get people to watch more often, but you don't throw out your whole hand at once. Go back to when the Monday Night Wars began... the first Nitro had essentially one surprise: Lex Luger showing up out of nowhere and causing both Sting and Ric Flair to be taken by surprise.

 

In other words, sometimes less is more.

 

As for the Bret Hart segments, I liked the one with Jericho and I'm fine with the one with Michaels. I think the real disappointment with the McMahon one isn't how it was done, but the fact it's going to build to Bret/Vince at WM and most of us just don't want to see Bret wrestling again. Plus, with Bret, you have all these "dream matches" people would talk about seeing (I'm sure some fans somewhere are hoping for Bret/Jericho or Bret/Orton, for instance) but they are highly unlikely to happen.

[tigerpride]

Just curious, how did Jeff Hardy con Dixie Carter?

[Loss]

He only signed a short-term contract.

[Sean Liska]

Just curious, how did Jeff Hardy con Dixie Carter?

I doubt Jeff was the one initiating the contact here.

[Guest Cerebus The Aardvark]

The frustrating thing about the Bret angle is that Shawn got to say Bret was in the wrong and that he disrespected the business, but it happened 12 years ago. Bret got to make no points in return about Shawn.

 

You could say the same about Bret and Vince. Vince refuses to come out when Bret asks him to, only doing it on his own terms. Bret still thinks Vince's apology is sincere, and the kick in the gut catches him off guard.

 

He just looked really dumb.

It was like watching Rick Steiner with Scott and Buff circa 1998; that as all I was thinking during both segments. "Let's be friends!" "Ok, sure!" "Dumbass."

 

Side question: when Bret and Jericho were talking, who did Bret say made Jericho scream in the Dungeon? I didn't catch it and the CC didn't help.

[Loss]

Smith's kids. I kinda thought Smith was kind of an obscure Hart brother to reference.

[Guest Cerebus The Aardvark]

Smith's kids. I kinda thought Smith was kind of an obscure Hart brother to reference.

 

Yeah, especially since 99% of people watching aren't going to know he has a brother named Smith. They were probably wondering "what's the guy's first name?". I was just confused, because the CC came up with "Siskis", and I had no clue what in the blue Hell that meant.

 

And for the record, if my parents had named me Smith, I'd punch them in the throat.

[KrisZ]

My buddy Art sent me this

 

It's been revealed that Jeff failed his 3rd drug test 2 weeks before Summerslam, but wasn't fired because he was leaving anyway. But due to the terms of the Wellness Policy, WWE can't rehire him for a year.

[Loss]

I wonder why they were leaking that they were considering Punk/Hardy for Mania, knowing that.

[Cox]

Here's what I don't get - has the Raw set really changed all that much in the past 13 years? I know there have been some cosmetic changes, but the same basic set of big screen/stage/ramp has pretty much stayed static since they changed around 1997. Did the TNT set in 1985 look the same as the Prime Time Wrestling set in 1988? Did the Prime Time set in 1988 look the same as 1991 (when they went to the studio audience setup)? Did the Prime Time set in 1991 look the same as the Raw set in 1993? Did the Raw set look the same in 1993 as it did in 1997? The look of the set used to evolve, and after the Monday Night Wars, that evolution pretty much stopped.

 

I think that's led to the feeling of staleness as anything, although it doesn't help that they have the same guys on top (HBK, HHH, Undertaker) and even some of the same announcers (Ross, Lawler, Cole have all been around). It says something where a lot of fans preferred an abhorrant TNA show to WWE simply because it was different than the usual WWE show (even if it was the equivalent to an old Thunder, not even Nitro, in quality). WWE programming needs a serious change, a shock to the system, because as a show, it just hasn't evolved at all in a long time, and the old WWF used to constantly evolve and reinvent itself.

[MikeCampbell]

It's a good thing Jeff only signed a short term contract. He was indicted by the grand jury today for his arrest in September.

[Sean Liska]

I can't get to the Observer site, but the Torch is reporting that TNA did a 1.5 and 2.2 million viewers, and the Hogan segment did 2.9 million. I don't know how many are coming back after that show, but I would assume there will be more Monday night battles.

[kjh]

Really that's a great rating if it holds up, given that they went three hours, two of which were head to head with Raw. Of course, if they couldn't pop a rating with the return of so many old stars, then they never could. A point that was lost on Bryan Alvarez a couple of weeks ago.

[Bix]

My buddy Art sent me this

 

It's been revealed that Jeff failed his 3rd drug test 2 weeks before Summerslam, but wasn't fired because he was leaving anyway. But due to the terms of the Wellness Policy, WWE can't rehire him for a year.

Where'd he get that?