goc

I'd replace Corbin with Nakamura on that list but otherwise I agree 100%. I actually could have gotten behind underdog Sami Zayn if he wrestled that great underdog match that he's seemingly only wrestled about 35% of the time in WWE (the other 65% being 50/50 indie workrate matches) but heel Sami does absolutely nothing for me.

Pretty bizarre to say Dandy's greatest exposure came as a C-show worker. That presumes you'd define his legacy by what he did in the U.S., which would be insane. That's why this conversation can't even really be had unless we defined what "underrated" actually means. Underrated to who? Because to people inside the PWO bubble no one in the OP is underrated. Even outside of that it and onto twitter it seems like Bobby Eaton is very highly regraded as is Brad Armstrong. If we're just talking "general audience, only ever watched WCW/ECW/WWE" then those guys would probably be underrated. El Dandy certainly would be since "Who are you to doubt El Dandy?" still comes up just about anywhere his name is talked about outside of somewhere like PWO and DVDVR.

Considering that WWE didn't opt to do a tag title change on Raw when they had the chance I have to assume that Sheamus' spinal stenosis is nowhere near as serious as Edge's was. I would guess it's the lower back type and not in his neck.

You must have not been paying attention at all in 2013 then because as part of the Prime Time Players he looked like he was ready to break out as a big time singles babyface. The crowd was always into his hot tags and doing his pose and HURRAH HURRAHS along with him.

Not sure how seriously to take that list because I know that Hogan/Giant match is definitely not right. Wikipedia page says 2,200 and is sourced to include how much the gate was. http://www.stspod.club/2007/05/col-coverage-official-gate-released.html

I don't think they can draw 10,000 people. It seems totally unrealistic and so far away from what any indie show has drawn in the U.S. that I kind of give them a 0% chance of pulling it off. NEW is the indie promotion that draws more paying fans in the U.S. than anyone other than WWE (which of course Dave Meltzer is too busy crowing about PWG selling 300 tickets every few months to actually cover. $10.99 folks) and they do quite well running minor league baseball stadiums in the summer using guys like Cody, Rey Mysterio, Ryback, Jerry Lawler, Jim Duggan and other various former WWE guys or big indie names. If you watch those shows on the Highspots Network the crowds look good and there are clearly 2,000+ people there. But they aren't sold out. So what chances do Cody and The Bucks have of selling out a 10,000 seat arena when Cody and Rey Mysterio couldn't sell out a 5,000 seat baseball stadium? As far as promoting it as the "Let's show everyone how wrong Dave Meltzer is and prove The Bullet Club is as big as WWE!" experience and trying to get a bunch of marks to fly in for the show, that's definitely the way they will probably try to go. It will work to draw a respectable crowd BUT the thing is, those types of fans they are drawing are the same ones who love bragging about pictures of empty seats for a WWE show so it will be a big hit to their narrative to only do 6,000 people in a 10,000 seat arena even if the show winds up being profitable. This whole experiment seems as much about furthering a narrative as it is about actually making money so just drawing 6,000 people is gonna be looked at as a failure regardless of financial success.

Roman has been treated predominantly as a babyface by crowds the last two weeks, especially in the Miz match. Agreed. But, last night was a much different story. I'm not sure what you mean? Last night the Roman cheers and the "Let's Go Roman" chants were way louder than the boos and the "Roman Sucks" chants.

I don't want to reread the whole thread but after a discussion on twitter I think the best way to define a hardcore fan in 2017 is that it's someone who is subscribed to more than one wrestling streaming service.

I don't think it's a good idea to debut a bunch of new people in street clothes. You want them to look like stars to people who've never seen them. Probably decided they didn't want Luke Gallows in a match with the Rock N Roll Express because he'd be exposed as more physically washed up than either Ricky or Robert.

Imagine thinking Bryan Alvarez was stuffing people into lockers in high school instead of being stuffed into them.

Yes it is. It's absolutely god-awful and should never, ever be addressed on air. "Treat it like it's real or just shut the fuck up". It's cringe-worthy enough when announcers say stuff like "match of the year", but at least it can be understood as "it's an awesome competitive match". But throwing star ratings as part of announcing, that's just a no-go-zone. Or it means we've officially entered the "pro-wrestling as figure skating" era. For certain wrestlers and promotions we absolutely have entered that era.

There's a real simple solution to Tony not remember certain things: Scrap the stupid "vote on what our show will be next week!" gimmick and have Tony decide the topics that he thinks he would be able to do a good show on/would like to talk about.

Orton's because he's the youngest.

Are we really still calling Dave a journalist after he completely makes up something that never happened (Jeff Hardy having an ROH run in 2009) then after he is called out on how he's wrong, instead of acknowledging that and admitting he messed up his timeline, he just deletes the tweets and moves on? Call him a historian if you want (at this point I'd rather just label him a NJPW/PWG fanboy/propagandist) but I don't think the word journalist applies anymore.

Biff Busick was just a dude having good workrate matches and that's the same thing he's doing now in NXT. It's not like TNA where they completely changed Page from an arrogant heel who is one of the few people on the indies who can actually generate heat into a goofy babyface who is pretending to be Joseph Park's brother.

Taking one of the most well known guys on the indies (Ethan Page) and changing his name and gimmick to turn him into Chandler Park, the brother of Joseph Park (Abyss) is SUCH a TNA thing to do.

They were already going to have Cena on the show as the guest referee for Brock/Jinder. Once they decided to switch it to Brock/AJ then Cena didn't fit in that spot anymore (since the planned finish was probably going to set up a Cena/Jinder match) and they put him in the last spot on the Survivor Series team that AJ was going to get. And they needed to do that too because the Smackdown Survivor Series team was looking like a clear B-team compared to Raw's. Plus for all we know Cena could've just said "Hey if you guys are gonna bring me in for a PPV let me wrestle because that's what I want to do and I rarely get to do it now" I'll admit to not knowing Cena was already set to be the guest ref for Brock/Jinder. I only watch the Network specials, so I definitely have some egg on my face for that. But I think my point still stands even more now? The original idea to bring back John Cena, after a pseudo-retirement angle, was 45 days later to be guest ref a Lesnar squash match? They figured that was a good use for bringing back maybe their most mainstream star? Maybe they should go all the way with this logic and have The Rock return as GM for 205 Live. You've worked yourself into a shoot thinking that was some kind of retirement angle. They IMMEDIATELY said it wasn't that on the post-PPV Network interview Cena did. As far as using Cena as a guest ref it seemed pretty clear it was gonna be a way for them to get out of doing a clean finish in a champ vs champ match and set up Cena's next program around Rumble/Mania season when he's back on a more regular basis. I posted the relevant part of Cena's interview in a tweet the day after it happened but I can't figure out how to embed it so here is a link: https://twitter.com/KrisPLettuce/status/912392510818963456

They were already going to have Cena on the show as the guest referee for Brock/Jinder. Once they decided to switch it to Brock/AJ then Cena didn't fit in that spot anymore (since the planned finish was probably going to set up a Cena/Jinder match) and they put him in the last spot on the Survivor Series team that AJ was going to get. And they needed to do that too because the Smackdown Survivor Series team was looking like a clear B-team compared to Raw's. Plus for all we know Cena could've just said "Hey if you guys are gonna bring me in for a PPV let me wrestle because that's what I want to do and I rarely get to do it now"

Well the Nia thing turned out to be false anyway but just pretending everything went down the way it was rumored, she refused to do something and asked for time off. Owens & Zayn, assuming THIS story is true, agreed to do something and then went out and did the opposite and in a much pettier circumstance. Refusing to do a job in a random pre-show match with no storyline to someone you've already been beaten by multiple times when you're supposed to be the monster heel of the division is not at all the same thing as agreeing to get run out of the ring by someone and leaving the ring before they can do anything to you. That's just petty bullshit because the idea they'd have been "hurt" or "buried" by having Big E & Xavier hit them a few times to send them out of the ring is ridiculous. I don't know where anyone said they should be released either, I never said that. I said I hope Vince decides ROH breeds malcontents (CM Punk, Jimmy Jacobs, Owens, Zayn) and decides not to bring in any more of them and fires the three bland ROH scrubs they have masquerading as a top heel stable in NXT.

It's especially stupid because Jimmy Jacobs had to know he was going to get in trouble and did it anyway because he didn't care or outright wanted to get fired.

WWE has enough short bland white guys who are only good at the workrates.

Kevin Owens thinks he's too good to get run off by The New Day? People love talking shit about how unprofessional Brock is but he let himself get choked out by Samoa Joe on Raw then beat down by Braun and KO couldn't get hit with a few moves then take off out of the ring? I hope Vince decides that ROH breeds nothing but malcontents and unprofessional people and tells HHH he's barred from hiring anymore alumni. I'd say go as far as fire The Undisputed Era geeks before they can taint the main roster locker room.

Jinder is going to win the title back ON the India tour. And LOL at thinking AJ is going to beat Brock Lesnar when they wouldn't even do some kind of DQ/non-finish for Brock vs Braun.

You of all people in the WWE section shouldn't be talking about someone having predictable posts.

Wow. Getting fired and losing your income = getting a chance to "find yourself". What a bunch of capitalistic corporate horseshit. I wonder if some of you have a bunch of WWE stocks sometimes... Yet you talk about it like it's the worst place in the world a wrestler could work so shouldn't you be happy for them that they no longer have to work for Satan himself?