goc

People complain about that finish? It was not only an incredibly effective way to debut the Kane character but like you said, that was a match where neither guy should have really lost anyway so it was the perfect "out."

Slasher's post is pretty spot on. Everyone on the roster has gotten the stop-start treatment even Roman Reigns. Owens just seemed worse because he started all the way at the top but after debuting in a feud with Cena where do you really go? The only way he goes "up" from there is winning the WWE title which I don't think should have been considered a realistic expectation.

I watched The Guerreros vs. Duggan & Jose Lothario yesterday and man The Guerreros were really ahead of their time. They're such a great stooging and bumping team but when they get in control of the match they really don't rely on the "long heat building to a hot tag formula" at all. The babyfaces usually get a lot of mini comebacks leading to the big tag. As much as I like the "Southern style" formula and think it produces good results more often than not, I have a lot of respect for them doing their own thing and still having it result in very good matches.

It's pretty easy to spot the clickbait stuff though. "Kevin Dunn told Randy Orton to make a fat joke about Kevin Owens" is one that stands out in that regard.

Some people think of Slaughter as a heel and just automatically think of Iraqi sympathizer Slaughter. He had a really long heel run before that and it was much better. He didn't need to "turn on his country" to be an effective heel. Dickhead drill sergeant is a pretty good character on it's own.

It was also reported before Survivor Series that Sheamus was not going to cash in the MITB briefcase. I think I'll rely more on what I can actually see happening than some vague "reports." Kevin Owens has had the best push of anyone from NXT that wasn't in The Shield. If he was really someone that Dunn and Vince didn't like then you wouldn't have to rely on rumor to figure it out. He wouldn't have debuted by beating John Cena in his very first match on the main roster.

Southwest Championship Wrestling @ San Antonio, TX - The HemisFair Arena 11/20/83 Mike Jackson & Tony Torres vs. The Assassins - Mike Jackson started the match against Assassin #2 and tried to put up a fight but was quickly overwhelmed by the larger man and his wild brawling tactics. He found himself in the Assassins corner being double teamed when they suddenly tossed him into the center of the ring and challenged him to tag in Tony Torres. Jackson made the tag to Tony Torres at the same time as Assassin #2 tagged in Assassin #1. The Assassin mocked the much smaller man and got caught with a surprise dropkick that sent him staggering back but he dodged the second one and then crushed Torres with a big splash while he was on the mat after the missed dropkick. He picked Torres up and body slammed him back down and then bounced off the ropes and finished Torres off with a big elbow drop. Winners: The Assassin in 3:12 in a dominating fashion after Assassin #1 pinned Tony Torres following a big elbow drop Art Crews vs. Timothy Flowers w/Jim Holliday - Flowers jumps Crews at the bell and works him over for a bit until missing an elbow drop at which point Crews is able to start firing back at him and take control with a headlock. Flowers tries to push Crews off but Crews holds onto Flowers' hair which the referee misses which causes Jim Holliday to become very frustrated. Flowers pushes him off again and this time the referee catches Flowers pulling the hair and makes him break the hold but Flowers is caught in a drop toe hold as he comes charging at Crews and Crews quickly puts the headlock back on while Flowers is down on the mat. Flowers works his way back to his feet and pushes Crews off into the ropes but Crews comes back with a shoulder block that puts Flowers on the mat and then bounces off the ropes again but gets tripped up by Jim Holliday on the outside which the referee misses. Crews complains to the referee about Jim Holliday tripping him which allows Flowers to pull something out of his tights and hit Crews with it and then quickly put it back in his trunks and cover Crews just as the referee is turning back around from arguing with Holliday about whether or not he tripped Art Crews. Crews is unable to kick out as he seems to have been totally knocked out by the loaded punch and Timothy Flowers is the winner. Winner: Timothy Flowers in 8:03 after a loaded punch Yin & Yang vs. Tiny Anderson & Man Mountain Link - Yang starts the match against Man Mountain Link and has no luck against the big man as he's unable to take him down to the mat and as soon as he tries to grab and arm or a leg to work a hold, Link just shoves him off. Yang reluctantly tags out to Yin who comes in and tries to come at Link with punches and kicks which have no real effect and then tries a dropkick that also fails to register on the big man. Finally Link gets tired of being a wall for his opponents to try to knock down and totally clobbers Yin with a big clothesline after Yin tries a shoulder tackle. As Yin is getting back to his feet he puts something in his mask and then charges at Link and drives his head into Link's midsection. Link doubles over and then Yin smashes him with a big headbutt that brings the big man to his knees but Yang alerts the referee Carl Fergie to check his own partner's mask which he does and finds the foreign object and disqualifies him! Winners: Man Mountain Link & Tiny Anderson in 4:38 after referee Carl Fergie finds a foreign object in Yin's mask Yin goes crazy at his own partner causing him to be disqualified and grabs him and pulls him over the ropes into the ring! Yang quickly gets up and shoves Yin who stumbles backwards into Man Mountain Link. Link spins him around and nails him with a big Falling Powerslam in revenge for Yin using a foreign object against him and then Yang leaves his partner laid out in the ring and leaves by himself. Southwest Television Title: Roy Lee Welch vs. Mike Masters - Roy Lee Welch is fired up and charges at Mike Masters as soon as the bell rings but Masters quickly bails out through the ropes and mocks Welch from the arena floor. Masters gets the referee to back Welch away from the ropes and then tentatively re-enters the ring only to stick his head out through the ropes as Welch charges him to cause the referee to get Welch back again. Masters continues to do everything he can to avoid contact with Roy Lee Welch as Welch, the crowd and the referee all get more and more frustrated. Finally at about the 4 minute mark Welch goes after him as he's on the outside and chases him around the ring only to have Jim Holliday step in his way. Welch bowls Holliday over but it stops him in his tracks long enough for Masters to just totally level him with a huge clothesline. Masters rolls back into the ring and tries to get a countout victory but Welch makes it back in before the 10 count and Masters just stomps the daylights out of him as he rolls under the bottom rope. Masters pulls him up and bodyslams him and then picks him up and does it 3 more times in a row before dropping a big elbow on him and making the cover but Welch is able to kick out just before the count of 3. Masters continues working on Welch and then tries to get him in the Full Nelson but Welch is able to slip down out of it and roll out of the ring. Masters goes out after him but Welch immediately goes back in the ring and this time he catches Masters coming in under the bottom rope with kicks and stomps. Masters pulls Welch's legs out from under him and the two men start rolling around on the mat punching each other and suddenly the bell rings and it's announced that the 10 minute time limit has expired. Welch wants to keep fighting but Masters quickly bails out of the ring and holds up the Television Title and taunts Roy Lee Welch with it. Result: Draw after the match goes to the 10 minute time limit for a Television Title match Ken Lucas & Eddie Gilbert vs. Bruiser Costa & Terry Adonis - Lucas and Gilbert start out the match totally out wrestling and out maneuvering their opponents much to the frustration of Costa & Adonis. Finally after a few minutes of bumping and stooging by Costa & Adonis, Ken Lucas is the victim of a cheap shot from Terry Adonis who comes in without being tagged and hits Lucas from behind which allows Costa to blast Lucas with a clothesline and take him down. Eddie Gilbert takes exception to the cheap shot and tries to come in to help his partner but that only causes the referee to focus on getting him out of the ring which allows Costa & Adonis to double team Lucas and get him isolated in their corner. Adonis & Costa make some tags in and out while keeping in control of Lucas and then Adonis settles into a chin lock on Lucas. Lucas uses the crowd to rally to his feet and out of the hold but gets attacked by Bruiser Costa to cut him off from making the tag. Costa and Adonis work him over some more but finally Lucas is able to escape the corner and start crawling to make the tag to Eddie Gilbert after a missed senton off the 2nd rope from Bruiser Costa! Costa and Lucas make their tags at almost the exact same time and Gilbert comes in and lights up Terry Adonis with punches. All 4 men end up in the ring and Terry Adonis and Bruiser Costa end up getting whipped into each other and then Eddie Gilbert climbs to the top rope and catches Terry Adonis with his Top Rope Dropkick and covers him for the win while Ken Lucas keeps Bruiser Costa from breaking up the pin. Winners: Ken Lucas & Eddie Gilbert in 9:57 after a Top Rope Dropkick from Eddie Gilbert on Terry Adonis Goldie Rogers w/Jose Lothario vs. El Gran Apollo - Goldie Rogers comes out before the match and says he was approached by someone in the locker room who offered to be his manager for this match because of how well they know El Gran Apollo and out comes Jose Lothario who is not at all well received by the crowd in the HemisFair Arena. Apollo is distracted by Jose at ringside right at the start which allows Goldie Rogers to jump him from behind and start putting a beating on him. Rogers pounds on him with punches and kicks and then takes him down with a clothesline and puts him in a chin lock. Apollo uses the support of the crowd to start working his way out of it but Jose distracts the referee to allow Rogers to pull him back down to the mat by the hair. Finally Apollo is able to break out of the chin lock and shoves Rogers off into the ropes and then catches him under the chin with a big dropkick. Apollo puts Rogers in a headlock and starts really wrenching on it while Jose trash talks him from the outside. Apollo gets a little to caught up in the back and forth with Jose which allows Rogers to shoot him off into the ropes and but Apollo ducks a clothesline from Rogers and comes back off the other side with a crossbody that gets a 2 count that was very close to a 3. Apollo hits a vertical suplex on Goldie Rogers and then gets ready to start climbing to the top rope but Jose comes around to that side of the ring and distracts him which allows Rogers to charge at him and knock him off the apron and send him crashing down to the floor of the HemisFair Arena. Rogers distracts the referee while Jose gets in some cheap shots on Apollo on the outside and then the referee starts to make his count but Apollo gets back in at the count of 7. Rogers immediately starts kicking and stomping at him as soon as he comes in under the ropes. Rogers has Jose distract the referee and then grabs El Gran Apollo and throws him over the top rope behind the ref's back and quickly turns his attention to the woman in the front row he's been taunting all match. Apollo was able to hold onto the ropes when he was thrown over however and didn't fit the floor, instead he climbed up to the top rope. Jose Lothario frantically tried to warn Goldie Rogers about what was happening and Goldie turned around confused only to get hit with the Top Rope Crossbody and pinned for the count of 3! Winner: El Gran Apollo in 10:44 after a Top Rope Crossbody After the match Jose Lothario got in the ring and complained to the referee that Apollo grabbed Goldie Rogers' tights on the pin. Apollo quickly grabbed Jose by the throat and looked about ready to start pounding on him when suddenly The Cuban Assassin appeared from out of the crowd and attacked him from behind! He took the spike out of his khaki type pants again and drove it right into the forehead of Apollo and busted him open once again! He started carving into Apollo's forehead and Jose finally pulled him off and the two of them started to leave the ring but Apollo started stumbling back to his feet and challenged The Cuban Assassin for more! The Cuban Assassin and Apollo circled each other when suddenly Jose jumped in and blasted Apollo with a cheapshot with his cast covered hand and totally knocked him out. Then Jose and The Cuban Assassin left as a bloody El Gran Apollo was totally laid out and unconscious on the mat and eventually had to be helped back to the locker room by Ken Lucas, Eddie Gilbert, Mike Jackson and Tony Torres AWA Southwest Tag Team Titles: Mr. Saito & Yoshi Seito vs. The Fabulous Ones - Steve Keirn came out favoring his shoulder that was injured by The Assassins. Mr. Saito mocks him and tries to get him to start the match but Stan Lane starts instead. Mr. Saito mocks Stan Lane's karate kicks and mimes that he prefers the karate chop which earns him a karate chop to the throat from Stan Lane and then a karate kick that takes him off of his feet. Saito rolls outside and has a fit about what just happened, complaining to the referee about the chop to the throat. He gets back in the ring and feigns that he wants a lockup but then tries for a revenge karate chop when Lane gets in close but Lane blocks it and then hits him with another karate kick that floors the big man from Japan. Saito rolls into his corner and kicks the ropes in frustration and then tags in Yoshi Seito who also ends up eating some karate kicks from Stan Lane. Finally Lane goes for a kick that Seito catches and then Saito tries to come in the ring which distracts the ref allowing Yoshi Seito to kick Stan Lane right in the groin! Steve Keirn rushes in and starts pounding on Seito with his one good arm but the referee gets in between them and starts pushing Keirn back to the corner which allows Saito and Seito to double team Lane. Saito comes in without a tag and puts Lane in his kneeling figure four but Lane refuses to submit. Saito works the hold for a while until Lane is able to make the ropes but it's a short reprieve as Saito ends up pulling him back into the center of the ring and putting the Scorpion Deathlock on him. Keirn rushes in and blasts Saito with a kick to the face to break the hold but Seito makes an illegal switch while the ref is getting Keirn out of the ring and puts a Boston crab on Lane, following up on Saito's damage to Lane's legs. Keirn rushes in again and breaks that hold which allows Saito to come in and blast Lane in the throat with a chop just as Lane was getting back to his feet. Seito whips Lane into the ropes and Lane ducks a clothesline and then comes back and both men crash into each other head first. Both men are down trying to get to their corner and when Saito tries to rush in to stop Lane from crawling to his corner, the referee stops him and while his back is turned Keirn pulls Lane out of the ring and takes his place and lays face down on the mat. Seito doesn't realize the switch took place and tries to grab hold of him but Keirn quickly pulls him into a small package and gets the 3 count! Keirn quickly rolls out of the ring and celebrates the victory with Stan Lane at ringside as Mr. Saito tries to tell the referee what happened. Saito then turns his frustrations on Yoshi Seito and starts berating him for getting pinned and smacks him around a bit before ordering him out of the ring. Winners: The Fabulous Ones in 14:12 after Steve Keirn caught Yoshi Seito in a small package following a partner switch If Tully is disqualified he loses the Southwest Heavyweight Title/If Duggan loses then he will not receive another title shot while Tully is the champion AWA Southwest Heavyweight Title: Jim Duggan vs. Tully Blanchard - Tully tried to jump Duggan as soon as he came in the ring but Duggan quickly turned the tide on him and laid Tully out with a big punch. Tully tried to beg off but Duggan grabbed him and whipped him into the ropes and then hit him with a big clothesline and followed it up with a knee drop and went for the cover but Tully was able to kick out at the count of 2. Tully tried to crawl out of the ring by the bottom rope but Duggan grabbed him by his trunks and pulled him back in and spun him around into another big haymaker that put Tully on the mat. Duggan signaled he was going to go for his Spear and bounced off the ropes as Tully was getting back up but Tully ducked it and Duggan ended up colliding with referee Jack Howe instead which sent Howe flying through the ropes and landing awkwardly on the outside. Duggan stepped halfway out through the ropes to try and check on Jack Howe's condition only to have Tully kick the middle rope up and crotch him and then Tully started pounding, kicking, biting and clawing at Duggan to try and maintain the advantage on the big man. Carl Fergie and a few of the wrestlers came out with a stretcher and carried Jack Howe back to the locker room while Tully continues to work over Duggan including raking the eyes and choking him on the ropes. Tully went to grab the Southwest Heavyweight Title but saw Carl Fergie coming back down to ringside and abandoned his plan. Tully started peppering Duggan with punches as the big man tried to regain his bearings and then grabbed him and tried for a Slingshot Suplex but Duggan blocked it and hit a suplex of his own which got the crowd on it's feet. Suddenly Mr. Saito and Yoshi Seito appear at ringside and Carl Fergie gets distracted by them and tells them they have to go back to the locker room. While he's shouting at them, Duggan goes to whip Tully into the ropes but Tully reverses and purposefully whips Duggan into the back of Carl Fergie which sends him flying out through the ropes! Carl Fergie lands face down on the floor of The HemisFair Arena and looks to be knocked out. Duggan blasts Tully that floors him again but then is swarmed by Saito and Yoshi Seito. He puts up a good effort in fighting both of them off but goes down after Tully grabs the Southwest Heavyweight Title and clocks Duggan in the back of the head with it. Duggan goes down to one knee after getting hit with the belt and then Saito grabs him and hits the Saito Suplex on him. Tully has Seito and Saito help him pick Duggan up for the Slingshot Suplex and he hits and covers Duggan while telling Saito and Seito to get Carl Fergie back in the ring. They go outside and start towards Carl Fergie when suddenly David Von Erich comes out of nowhere and attacks them with a chair! He is swinging the chair like a wild man and takes out both Saito and Seito. Tully's back is to David but he hears the commotion and turns around to look and sees David! Tully looks like he's seen a ghost and tries to stop David from getting into the ring but David tosses the chair at Tully which smacks him in the head and then rushes in under the bottom ropes and starts pounding on him! The crowd goes crazy for David beating on Tully but Carl Fergie finally gets back to his feet and sees what is going on and calls for the DQ! Winner: Tully Blanchard by DQ in 10:37 after Carl Fergie came back to from being knocked out of the ring and saw David Von Erich in the ring beating on Tully Blanchard David keeps hammering on Tully after the bell rings until Saito & Yoshi Seito are able to grab hold of Tully from outside the ring and pull him out to safety. David looks to go out after them when suddenly he's grabbed from behind by Jim Duggan and spun around! Duggan is pissed about getting disqualified by David's interference and shoves him. David shoves him back and the two men look to be about ready to come to blows but David instead leaves the ring while Duggan continues staring at him from inside of it.

Barry is a lot better than I expected him to be, check out the Lanny Poffo vs. Barry Orton match if you haven't seen that yet.

There is no question that they really ramped up the efforts to market towards kids during & after the Hogan era but I think it was always there. Wrestling was always kind of a "bring the whole family!" thing except, oddly enough, in New York where kids were banned for a long time. JYD was a dominant babyface because Watts believed in having super strong babyfaces in general but it definitely helped his appeal with kids.

They really didn't learn the lesson of Daniel Bryan is that what got him so over is that they went out of their way to make it look like the company in kayfabe and real terms didn't want him to be the champ so people rallied behind him because the real life decision makers in WWE are by far the biggest heels to the audience. At this point putting the company stamp of approval on a guy is like the kiss of death.

They might have tried actually giving him some good booking this year too. The Wyatt feud was overly long and seemed to have no real progression and the one thing that might have actually set it apart and given Reigns some sympathy as a babyface, the stuff with Wyatt having pictures of Roman's daughter, they got rid of as soon as possible. We've seen when they WANT to build someone up they can still do it, as evidenced by the great buildup of Rusev that lasted almost a whole year. But what have they really done to rehab Reigns after Mania? A whole bunch of nothing.

The more I watch the higher these guys climb on my list. I'm impressed by the fact that they really break from the formula of "southern" tags and don't really rely on long heat segments building to one big hot tag, at least as heels. While I think that's the best formula for having a good tag match, The Guerreros have their own style and are able to have very good matches without really relying on that formula. That's impressive to me and makes them stand out from the pack.

Really tag team heavy card this time out. Pretty surprised at the DWB's falling to Ole & Bill Ash. I thought for sure Ash would be taking the fall in that one. I don't know how Stan Hansen would have liked teaming with a big schlub like the Plowboy but then he did team a lot with Brody maybe he wouldn't have minded. I wonder if Idol didn't throw that match...I hope my beloved professional wrestling isn't being tainted by someone purposely losing a match. 2 out of 3 falls in a Falls Count Anywhere match seems a bit odd but I'm sure it happened somewhere. Reed vs Brody would have probably been good since Reed was big enough and bad enough he probably could have "convinced" Brody to actually sell if he needed to. Wrestling II showing up as the partner for JYD was pretty cool. I fucking love me some Mr. Wrestling II. I'm surprised Piper came in as a heel, I thought things were so loaded on the heel side already he'd end up coming in as a Lawler ally but Lawler vs. Piper is definitely an interesting match.

Scicluna confirms Florida really is where the old wrestlers are going to retire Good use of him though by giving Curt a really fast and dominant win. That's a freaking awesome picture of Dusty signing autographs, love it. The marine corps hymn is such a great entrance theme for wrestling. Been watching a 3 disc comp of the Iron Sheik/Sgt. Slaughter feud over the past week and that song and the crowd's reactions for the Sarge always give me goosebumps. I never really liked Terry Daniels in the stuff I'd seen him in previously but in doing my research on Southwest I found out he became a wrestler after answering an Adrian Adonis open challenge to the fans and holding his own against him. So in realizing that the stuff I've seen him in is probably in his first 2 years of wrestling and the fact that he wasn't properly trained, I cut him some more slack if I see him in something now. Cutting up his dress blues is a pretty crazy angle and made me want to see the Sarge or Dick Murdoch come in and help him out. Briscos & The Long Riders was a wild contest, I don't even know what the official result was. Hats getting ripped up is just good ol' rasslin the way it used to be and the way you like it, as Bob Caudle would say.

The SMART idea would have been to have Roman beat Sheamus and foil the cash in attempt but why is anyone still expecting WWE to do anything smart? They don't think long term this IS their idea of "smart" booking because now they have a title match for TLC and maybe the Rumble and didn't have to actually do anything to build someone up to that position they just hit the big red "MITB cash in" button to take a barely relevant midcarder into the main event.

Because they are shitty at storytelling and think that would have created sympathy.

I'm not sure that he COULDN'T but I'm pretty sure he WOULDN'T because he seems to have the sense to realize that he's in WWE and not RoH.

I LIKE Roman Reigns though and wish they would have just gone with him at Mania. Is he a great promo? No. But neither was Rollins and we had to sit through months and months of never ending boring ass Rollins talking segments but somehow he got a free pass from the same people hating on Reigns.

I don't think anything DID change. I'm pretty sure the Sheamus cash in was part of the plan the whole time, especially if they wanted to do Rollins/HHH at WrestleMania. There is still plenty of time for Roman to win the belt and head into Mania as the champ and their thinking would probably be that Roman getting the title off Sheamus, a guy that really NO ONE wants to see with the belt, would help his babyface reactions.

We might have gotten saved from an "epic" HHH WrestleMania match though...

Ahmed Johnson really feels like one of the biggest "what ifs?" from the 90s. At the same time though, if Ahmed had never gotten injured and stayed on the trajectory he was on around the time period of Summerslam 96 I'm not sure that Vince would have ever really gotten behind pushing Austin as the next big babyface star if he had a healthy and popular Ahmed right there.

I think the idea was to give the Reigns haters something they want even less than Reigns so he can get a good reaction when he takes the title heading into Mania.

I don't really see how it's any worse than the Mania deal that most people seemed to love. In fact it's better because they at least had a real finish to the main event. It did completely negate the whole tournament we just watched play out over multiple weeks on multiple shows. A tournament which Sheamus was in himself & eliminated from. The briefcase deal sucks. This is true but the MITB cash in for a WrestleMania main event negates the Royal Rumble which is their second biggest PPV of the year. I'm not saying this was GOOD I'm simply saying this was shit but so was Rollins cashing in but somehow that gets a pass for...well I have no idea.

"Trading wins" is really really stretching it when it's a MITB cash in.

I think that's going a bit far. If Reigns goes over definitively to win the title back then it's fine.