Coffey

Maybe ECW too? There were around for awhile and I'm sure a couple of cats like RVD and Mikey Whipwreck would make the list, although not near the top. Hell, maybe we should just do 1990 - Present North America?

Anyone have a link to the Raven shoot the was referenced in the article about using wrestlers real names?

It almost sounds like Meltzer is saying the content of the match doesn't matter. The World Series games have been good individual games. I mean, the Sox have won the first three but they've been good games. The problem is, no one cares. So, maybe he's saying wrestling should do a better job of building to matches instead of just slapping random matches on Raw & Smackdown?

Hmm, good point. I think universally, WWF is pretty well known. We could do, like, Wrestlemania 3 - present? Of course, then we'll see Hogan, Rock, Austin, Foley & Hart in the top slots most likely. Actually, it'd probably be pretty tough to get fifty out of that. We'd have like Demolition Smash at #87.

I dunno. Seems like we're a pretty knowledgable group. That's why I proposed the ranking list. If we have several people submitting names, we won't have to worry about forgetting people or what have you. If there's someone that's good that the majority of the posters don't really know, then there's a chance they won't make it on to the final list. Then, when we get the final list, everyone puts it in order. Then we do a point system with each persons list to figure out the final list. I think it'd work.

Sorry, I edited my post. What do you think about the submission of wrestlers to create an ultimate list idea? The only thing I could see being rough is, like, the last couple of slots on the final list or the inclusion of women.

I'm not really sure. I mean, if we were to just do it on workrate, some huge names that had a lot of impact, such as Hogan, would be missing. What do you suggest? I figured we could do, like, a point scale for each wrestler that we list? Maybe have, like, categories for impact, talking, selling, bumping, drawing, etc.? I'm just confident that we could come up with a lot better of a list here, no matter what we base it on. Most of the posters here have a broader range of footage that they've seen and a better grasp of the history of the business. I mean, Jumbo was #72 on their list...below Bam Bam, Chyna & The Sandman. Maybe we can do it sort of like how we did the nominations for the tournaments that we used to run? Get everyone to throw names of people into a hat and then we'll do cuts until we get down to a final list of 100...then we all put that list in order and use a point system to determine a final list?

Inspired by this thread. I was disappointed with where a lot of the wrestlers were. Namely people like HBK, Angle being so high. I was curious if maybe we could get something like this together? Maybe get people to make some lists ranking some wrestlers, give points for being listed and extra points for #1 votes or something? I think it'd be fun. I really liked the set-up that the guy in the thread did though. When doing the list, he provided a picture a brief description and a list of some matches they are famous for.

If we're talking all-time, that'd be pretty hard for me. I guess since you excluded Benoit, Jericho & Eddie, I'd go with either Liger, Mysterio or Malenko. If we're talking current, though, I'm going with James Gibson. He's had a phenominal '05.

...or at least not watching TNA.

I love when fans try to put themselves over. "I might get a lot of heat from this but I thought the Vince segment was better than the entire Bound for Glory PPV." Yeah, he's not trying to start shit at all. It kinda pisses me off that he uses to term "heat" to describe the backlash he's going to get from people for being an idiot.

Heh. So, who was the nurse in the skit anyway? A lot of people seem to be talking about how hot she was.

Who's that?

I just changed the channel last night during the Vince skit. To be honest, I wasn't paying close attention to the show anyway because I was playing World of Warcraft and discussing a planned trip to Philadelphia with a friend. That being said, I knew the skit was going to be bad, I knew I wasn't going to want to discuss it on message forums, so I just changed the channel to MNF, saw it was a blowout, then turned it to AMC, saw it was Scream 2 again, then went to Spike to watch some UFC. Eventually, I went back to the Raw show because I had said friend over to watch it, and since I wasn't really paying attention anyway, I turned it back. When The Ultimate Fighter was getting ready to start, I changed the channel back to Spike TV. I didn't care what happened in the WWE main event, and I still don't. I don't know who won or what happened. I just know I wasn't going to miss the first five-ten minutes of TUF again like I did last week. I'm thinking of just getting some more Puro tapes or something. I got twenty or twenty-five bucks or so to blow. Maybe I'll check out some non-Misawa/Kobashi/Kawada/Akiyami/Taue AJPW. I'm kinda interested in checking out Kojima and Ogawa. I wouldn't mind having that recent Kensuke/Kenta match either. Goodhelmet or someone wanna make some recomendations?

Eh, he won both of his fights, but they've also been the two worst fights of the season so far. I don't think it's a coincidence. Although I have heard the "counter-striker" argument before, so I guess if he gets in there with someone that "lets it fly" it could be entertaining.

I can't get into any wrestler, no matter how hard they're pushed, if they're the shits in the ring. Carlito, Nathan Jones, Heidenreich, Kenzo, etc. I fear Bobby Lashley will be added to that list soon too.

That was the best episode of TUF2 this season. The fight was really good and there was a lot of soap-opera type stuff, like the Hughes concern towards the end, that really stood out. I really thought that Luke was done. Him winning via knockout came, pretty much, out of left field. At least that knee did anyway. Sam was still out of it from a punch a few moments earlier but I certainly didn't think the fight would end the way it did. Sam BLASTED Luke with a punch earlier too. I thought the fight was over right there. I'm just waiting for Von Flue and Rashaad to go home. I can't stand them. I've hated Von Flue ever since he showed up in the house and said "you can't see me." I hate Rashaad because both his first two fights were terrible (although you can't put all the blame on him, especially in the second fight) and because of the taunting shit that he did in his first fight. Now he's acting like a baby because Hughes is going to be in his corner? Fuck him.

- What is your favorite singles match? Misawa Vs. Kawada (7/29/93?) I'm not positive that's the right date. The one where Kawada breaks his arm. - What is your favorite tag team (2 teams of 2) match? Misawa/Kobashi Vs. Kawada/Taue (I think the date is 6/9/95) It's the one where Kobashi gets his quad worked. - What is your favorite multi-person (2 teams of 3 or more on each side) match? Actually, I can't think of any. Probably a War Games match involving the IV Horsemen or some scramble spot fest from ROH. - What is your favorite type of wrestling? Japanese Strong Style. I like when people like Samoa Joe, Low Ki, etc. wrestle stiff too. - What is your favorite angle of all time? Sting Vs. nWo - Who is a wrestler you found to like because of the internet? Eddie Guerrero. On the flip side, a wrestler I found to hate because of the internet would be Kevin Nash. - WCW or WWF 1996-1998? WCW. I got into the overall card more. Cruiserweight curtain jerks, Raven's Flock, Goldberg's streak, Page's ribs getting beat with crutches and Sting Vs. the nWo. - Do you like Lucha Libre? Why? Not especially. From the exposure to it that I have, it's mainly a lot of botched spots. Admittedly, I haven't seen the true Mexican version of Lucha, just the bastardized American version that I've seen from ECW, WCW, etc. - If you could book a "Super Show" card with 3 matches with a guarantee to draw a huge crowd and maintain monster heat the whole night, what would it be? Make this show from matches that actually happened or just pit together three matches I'd like to see? If it's from matches that actually happened: Rey Mysterio Jr. Vs. Eddie Guerrero from Halloween Havoc to curtain jerk. Hot, fast-paced match that'd get the crowd going if they weren't already doing so. Of course, you made the crowd stip. so whatever. Mikey Whipwreck & Yoshihiro Tajiri Vs. Tony Mamaluke & Little Guido from ECW on TNN. This happened after Whipwreck/Tajiri won the tag titles in a 3-way on PPV. The Undertaker Vs. Jeff Hardy Ladder Match from Raw because it was great at making you suspend disbelief. I actually thought Hardy was going to win the match towards the end. There was no line in the sand about whom was heel or face either. I really liked 'Taker's Undisputed title run, although I know I'm in the minority on that. A good cruiserweight match to start things out and put on a good match. A hot tag match with innovative spots and a final? that has a lot of entertainment that makes the workrate no longer matter. If it's just making matches I'd like to see, I wanna see William Regal work American Dragon in Ring of Honor. That's the only thing that instantly springs to mind though.

That's what I was thinking too. I was always a fan of Bam Bam Bigelow as well. Stan Hansen comes to mind as well as Bruiser Brody. What if we were to talk about current big men though? Would someone like Abyss get a mention?

Well, the way iMPACT! played out last night, Raven could just fight for the title instead of Nash and they could say that Raven took out Nash to get his shot. Raven's lackey was on iMPACT! and said that "Raven will be at Bound for Glory." So, it'd make sense from that perspective. It would also make sense for Raven to be the first person to get a rematch since he just lost the belt to Jarrett.

I've really, really enjoyed Ring of Honor in '05. It's the most fun I can remember having watching wrestling since the Monday Night Wars, that's for sure. Actually, it's probably what I'd put as my favorite but there's still a couple of months left. I'm just a mark. I liked ECW up until right before they started the Network angle. I loved all the Raven/Dreamer shit anyway. I was high on Steve Corino too. WWF in '98 was fun with DX, Austin & The Rock all in full swing. WCW around the same time with the nWo Vs. Sting and cruiserweight curtain jerks, Raven's Flock & Goldberg squashes were fun too. I've not seen enough Puroresu to compare them on a yearly basis. I know that 90's AJPW put out some good matches but I've just seen the matches not everything surrounding them.

Well, since I'm the only one to vote for Christian (so far) I guess I have to explain myself. I never really got into Owen. It's not really a knock against him, I just wasn't real big into WWF when he was actually being used. The only Owen I have seen was a little bit of his heel run when he was feuding with Bret, some of his tag team matches with Yokozuna as a partner and him teaming with Jeff Jarrett. Christian, on the other hand, entertained me a lot. All the TLC/Ladder matches. All the Edge & Christian backstage skits and shit, like the kazoo's, etc. In the ring, it's a no brainer. Owen blows Christian away. Mainly because Christian seems to rest a lot. Overall though? I had to pick Christian.

I still remember the first time I tried to get into Puro. I'm sure a lot of people made the segway the same way that I did. You hear that a certain wrestler that you know of works overseas and you're curious what he's doing. In my case, it was Vader, Bam Bam Bigelow & Scott Norton because I was a huge "big man" mark. So, I hopped onto some old mIRC channels and checked out some matches. Nothing fancy. Pretty much just squash matches that left me unimpressed. Bad experience for the most part. Then I started reading more message forums and looking to branch outwards in my wrestling. I'm sure a lot of fans have done it. I even went out of my way to get Fire Pro Wrestling D on Dreamcast because I'd read so many people say it was the "best wrestling game ever." I got the game and, naturally, I couldn't figure out the controls since I was used to Wrestlemania 2000 controls and whatnot. The whole concept of breathing and hitting more than one button at a time to do a move was foreign to me. Once again, I hit up mIRC. I found a Fire Pro channel and went in asking for help. Basically, I was run-off and talked down to. Presumably it was because I wasn't real knowledgeable of Puro. I believe the final comment before I left the channel was "have fun watching Jackhammers on Nitro." Another bad experience. Thankfully, Goodhelmet made me a comp. tape of 90's AJPW or I would've given up on Puro altogether. I'd already had two bad experiences. The first was due to my lack of knowledge about the product and, really, workrate in general. I mean, I was looking for Scott Norton matches! The second, well, I just ran into an asshole. Instead of just answering my question, he had to attempt to belittle me. I can certainly see, if my experience is any indication, why people would be quick to stereotype Puroresu fans. They're just like any other wrestling fans though. There's good and bad. I guess the argument comes from which fans you consider good and which ones you consider bad. It took me a real long time to figure out what I do actually like in wrestling. I got Super J Cup '94 & '95 and didn't like either one. I couldn't bring myself to admit that I hated AJ Styles. It took me a long time to realize that I'm just not a huge fan of high-flying moves. I like when women are involved in the storylines. I like clean finishes but I hate false finishes. I don't like when wrestlers use one anothers finisher. Just a bunch of things that you really don't put your finger on right away.

Homicide: I love everything about him. His entrance music, his look, his gimmick, his promos, his wrestling, his tattoo on his arm, his finishers, etc. He's the reason that I have fifteen gigs of ROH on my computer. He's the only wrestler that I can think of that I actually go out of my way to watch.