Coffey

I still remember the first time I tried to get into Puro. I'm sure a lot of people made the segway the same way that I did. You hear that a certain wrestler that you know of works overseas and you're curious what he's doing. In my case, it was Vader, Bam Bam Bigelow & Scott Norton because I was a huge "big man" mark. So, I hopped onto some old mIRC channels and checked out some matches. Nothing fancy. Pretty much just squash matches that left me unimpressed. Bad experience for the most part. Then I started reading more message forums and looking to branch outwards in my wrestling. I'm sure a lot of fans have done it. I even went out of my way to get Fire Pro Wrestling D on Dreamcast because I'd read so many people say it was the "best wrestling game ever." I got the game and, naturally, I couldn't figure out the controls since I was used to Wrestlemania 2000 controls and whatnot. The whole concept of breathing and hitting more than one button at a time to do a move was foreign to me. Once again, I hit up mIRC. I found a Fire Pro channel and went in asking for help. Basically, I was run-off and talked down to. Presumably it was because I wasn't real knowledgeable of Puro. I believe the final comment before I left the channel was "have fun watching Jackhammers on Nitro." Another bad experience. Thankfully, Goodhelmet made me a comp. tape of 90's AJPW or I would've given up on Puro altogether. I'd already had two bad experiences. The first was due to my lack of knowledge about the product and, really, workrate in general. I mean, I was looking for Scott Norton matches! The second, well, I just ran into an asshole. Instead of just answering my question, he had to attempt to belittle me. I can certainly see, if my experience is any indication, why people would be quick to stereotype Puroresu fans. They're just like any other wrestling fans though. There's good and bad. I guess the argument comes from which fans you consider good and which ones you consider bad. It took me a real long time to figure out what I do actually like in wrestling. I got Super J Cup '94 & '95 and didn't like either one. I couldn't bring myself to admit that I hated AJ Styles. It took me a long time to realize that I'm just not a huge fan of high-flying moves. I like when women are involved in the storylines. I like clean finishes but I hate false finishes. I don't like when wrestlers use one anothers finisher. Just a bunch of things that you really don't put your finger on right away.

Homicide: I love everything about him. His entrance music, his look, his gimmick, his promos, his wrestling, his tattoo on his arm, his finishers, etc. He's the reason that I have fifteen gigs of ROH on my computer. He's the only wrestler that I can think of that I actually go out of my way to watch.

And to me, that's the big difference. It's the reason why I can watch wrestling and enjoy it moreso than I can watch MMA or Boxing. It's because it's worked. It's because you know it's all leading somewhere. If something sucks, you don't always have to blame the wrestlers, sometimes you can blame the writing or the bookers. In MMA, if a fight sucks, it's the fighters' fault.. Look at this season of TUF. There's been AT LEAST two TERRIBLE fights. If it was worked, that wouldn't have happened. Not to say there's not been bad matches in wrestling but you can usually see them coming. Like, if you pit Kamala Vs. The Undertaker, you can't expect a 4-star affair. You can see that shit coming. In MMA, you just never know. It could end in three seconds or it could be a three-round, roll-around-on-the-ground armbar attempt fest.

The biggest difference being that prowrestling is worked....

*Sigh* I knew it was all coming but to hear about it this early? Fuck, it's already started. That's why I hated Raw being on USA back in the day. Of course, WCW was on the air during a lot of it, so that helped.

Well, it's certainly not Piper or Dusty. I could see a case being made for any of the rest. I voted for The Undertaker because even people that don't watch wrestling know who he is, like my mom.

I'm assuming it's because it's the re-debut of Raw on USA. They need people to tune in and watch Raw. Not just for the ratings and whatnot but because those are the same people that they'll be selling their PPV's to. If no one watches Raw, no one watches the PPV. This needs to be a huge show.

I guess that's where we disagree. I thought he was fantastic on the mic, got good heat and was decent in the ring.

That's from PWInsider. What do you guys think about that?

It's funny because out of all the comments that WARRIOR made, the only one that anyone ever cares to say anything about is his negativity towards The Brain. I guess it's because people actually like Bobby Heenan as opposed to not giving a fuck about Mark Lloyd, Droz, etc. whom he called queer, crippled and so on.

I can agree with that. The problem lies in WWE. Smarks, for the most part, know that WWE is no longer the "promised land" so to speak. So they might aspire to work good matches in ROH instead of being a rich and famous jobber in WWE. They wouldn't have a huge risk of getting buried, being limited, etc. in the indies. Can't deny that when people talk about wrestling a lot of times they're generalizing when they're really just talking about WWE (or WWF as a lot of people still call it). I'm curious if that will change in the future. Maybe one day when people say "wrestling" they won't mean WWE but another promotion and the people on-line or whatever will have to explain to them that "there's other promotions too, like WWE."

Heh, that's pretty funny actually. "Triple D buries another superstar!" I don't know if anyone else would be smart enough to think of it though.

It's funny, we're still referred to as being a small demographic, yet, on the flip-side, a lot of people would argue that we're the only ones still watching. Outside of the people that buy a ticket because the show comes to their town, I'd say that the smarks are pretty much the only people still watching. WWE doesn't really cater to kids anymore, at least not like they used to, so it doesn't look like they'll have a ton of fans in the future. When I was growing up, everyone watched wrestling. Everyone knew who Hulk Hogan was. A lot of wrestlers today, like Edge & Christian, were fans during that era. So, what does that mean for the future generation? We're going to have future wrestlers that talk about Steve Austin & The Rock? What's after them though? Nothing, as of now, looks too promising. I know I probably wouldn't follow a product when the top dog's influences were John Cena and Batista. I agree with what Don West said though. It's easier to discuss the negative aspects of things, so that's what a lot of the on-line conversation is about. When you go to places like TSM it's really hard to defend your stance when you're against the majority. You pretty much get labeled as an idiot if you don't agree with everyone else. You're not really allowed to have your own opinion. There's like two types of poster there. The newer guys that just go along with everything in the WWE folder. Then the "established" posters whom tell the newer guys what their opinion is. If it differs, they pretty much get ran off or at least stop posting in the WWE folder. There's not a lot of activity anymore. You can blame it on the board or the current product or both. I think the board reflects the state of the product though. I don't want to say that I like Jeff Jarrett. I don't mind him. I certainly don't see him as a main eventer. I never have and probably never will. That being said, you certainly can't just kick him to the curb. Without him and his dad, there wouldn't have ever been a TNA. I don't think he's the best choice to carry the title but I can see why TNA would keep giving it to him. They're appreciative. At least that's my guess. As far as the companies actually thinking that on-line fans are marks and whatnot, it's tough to say. There is a difference in heel heat and X-Pac heat, but that doesn't mean that they see it. Look at the Dudleys. They always had a ton of heat. As face or heel. Yet, on-line people just constantly called them stale. Still do actually. Yet they were one of the only people on the roster to actually get reactions from the crowd. Kurt Angle's entrance will always ensure a "you suck" chant just like you'll always hear the crowd shout "3D!" when the Dudleys irish whip someone.

Since this is going to become a re-occuring thread, perhaps we should list all the matches that happened in the week? I might have to start watching Smackdown and Impact now just so I can vote in this thread. How much longer are Velocity and Sunday Night Heat going to be on the air? I know they're becomming WWE.com exclusive soon.

What about the Velocity match between Regal & Benoit that everyone clamored about?

That was the best promo I've ever seen. Luger looks to be in really good shape. A lot better than the last time I saw him in TNA anyway. Too bad he sucks in the ring and on the mic.

Heh, that's what I said over at TSM in the TNA section where this news was posted. Not only is it redundant but it sounds absolutely retarded as well. They can't call it the 3D anymore, so the commentators would actually have to refer to it as the Deadly Death Drop.

Most people liked it, thus it's a contender. Not everything is to be repeatedly viewed with a fine comb. Hell, I believe Meltzer even gave it 5-star. It's definitely a contender. It might not win, but it's a contender.

Yeah, see, if I could read, it wouldn't have been a problem. My bad.

Samoa Joe Vs. Christopher Daniels Vs. AJ Styles; TNA X-Division Title; Unbreakable There's been a lot in ROH too but I'll leave that up for people who watch ROH more frequently than I do. I've liked the majority of Samoa Joe's Pure Title defenses though. CM Punk Vs. Jimmy Rave was good too. Alex Shelley Vs. Austin Aries. James Gibson's had a few.

It's weird that you made the thread on a Sunday (the first day of a week) yet all the matches include shit from last week. It's like, we can't include matches from Unforgiven or can we?

It's funny (about HBK) because for the last two weeks, since his PPV win over Masters, I've just noticed little things that he does to upstage people. Like when he made sure he got the last word during the backstage promo with Hardy, The Big Show & Cena. It was obvious that Cena was supposed to close that out, yet Shawn threw in a random, last second, one-liner. Then, during the 8-man main event, I didn't think that it was a coincidence that Shawn was the man on top. King of the Mountain if you will. Maybe I'm just looking too deep into things but it seems as if HBK is unwilling to take the "I used to be good buy now I put people over" role. Hell, even in his match at Summerslam with Hogan, he made Hogan look ridiculous. The over-selling really exposed Hogan's moveset moreso than Hogan just using it. Then Shawn buried Hogan in a promo the next night on Raw. Granted it's not nearly the same thing, since, afterall, it's Hogan, but I think that was the turning point for HBK. That's when he "snapped" and found out that he could still get away with acting like a baby. Actually, if we look back farther, we see him beating Shelton Benjamin in the first round of the Gold Rush Tournament even though Shelton beat Triple H on more than one occasion. Shawn even worked himself into the Main Event program with HHH & Benoit at Wrestlemania XX. It definitely took a lot of the spotlight off of Benoit during the build-up.

Personally, I'd rather have Homicide get a run than American Dragon.

Eh, I had no problems with CM Punk or Gibson with the belt. It's not like they weren't still going to be around ROH anyway.

As far as the Unbreakable ratings are concerned, I agree that the 3-Way was Match of the Night (although not 5-star, that constitues a "perfect match" which this wasn't). I agree that Aries/Strong was right behind it at second. What I don't agree with is him having the tag match the same rating as the Williams/Sabin match. I'd have thrown a fourth of a star onto everything just so that Williams/Sabin wouldn't be tied with the same rating as the tag match. Samoa Joe/AJ Styles/Christopher Daniels **** Aries/Strong ***1/4 Williams/Sabin *** I wonder why he didn't give a rating for the Raven/Rhino match? It was at least as good as Hardy/Roode. I'd say they both linger around ** which is right around where I'd put the AMW tag match. Maybe it's just me but it'll never feel like a true "Monday Night War" again unless it's between two different pro-wrestling companies. UFC is a different breed altogether. Not that I don't like it, enjoy watching it, or follow it, but it's tough to compare the two other than that both involve physical contact. I can compare, like, Pride to UFC because I think they're similar. WWE though, I'd need to have it against either TNA or ROH for it feel like a "Monday Night War." Monday is "wrestling night" for me, not "fight night." Did either issue say anything about Brock heading to All Japan?