JerryvonKramer

I wish you would have seen the match & rated it before reading what others said about it. There's 0% chance that didn't affect how you viewed the match. Alas, that's an impossibility at this point. Shame. That is true. But on the other hand, the true classics are ones that come to you ready-hyped as five star and still hold up. One thing I will say though is that I had to pause the match and ended up picking up over an hour later, so that might have disrupted flow or stopped me getting more into it. Are my comments about Scott Dawson wrong? Is he typically seen as a completely polished performer a la Arn? What puts this over something like Clash 17 for people? Just wondering. A lot of folk gave this five, and folk I tend to agree and align with.

Co-sign all of the above. Every last word.

I was completely indifferent to the main event. Wasn't shocked, didn't care in the slightest one way or the other. Thought the entire show before it was awful. Worst I've seen this year and probably last year too.

I'm really struggling with people dropping snowflakes on the Goldberg / Brock match for some reason. Doesn't sit right with me.

Some examples of the "perfect style":

One thing I've been thinking about, and this goes back to Sasha vs Charlotte too, is if matches with proper face / heel dynamics are gaining at least 1/4* now just because they are doing it? Not saying that is what has happened, just that for me I take that stuff as read and don't award extra flakes just for it being there, it's just standard, or at least should be. Would recommend those who haven't seen either of these shows going out of their way to watch the DIY vs. Revival tag though. Only thing on either show absolutely worth seeking out imo.

I watched NXT Toronto, much better show than Survivor Series, which was a shower of shit. I'm more towards thinking Roode is good than boring, although the opener did nothing for me. I've seen Roode have good matches. I'm not gonna review whole show, just the DIY vs. Revival match which has had some hype around it, some even calling it best tag match in US history, which is an accolade I've bestowed on a match that happened earlier this year: Chris Hero and Tommy End vs. Sami Callihan and Zack Sabre Jr (1/22/16). DIY vs. The Revival (11/19/16) I'll just cut to the chase: I did not think it was a five star match, or even a 4.75. I'll go to some criticisms first: - Scott Dawson just isn't crisp enough for me. He has some good Arn-stooge spots and some stiff shots, but several times in the match I thought his positioning, timing and execution were all a bit off. Now you could say, "yeah but Akira Taue", but Taue despite his awkwardness and often not-that-good execution was usually in the right place at the right time. I don't know but Dawson not being quite tip top in that area dragged me out of the match at several key moments. - The final fall came very suddenly. For some reason I was expecting them to go a bit longer in the third fall but it didn't quite happen. I did like the character work from both teams throughout and thought that the old-school psychology was well worked. But I can't put this above, say, Clash 17 (4.75) where you have all-time workers playing these same roles to absolute perfection. There were just a few times I thought these guys weren't quite the finished article. It is still an excellent match, don't get me wrong just laying out why it isn't top tier in my view. I'll give it the exact same rating I gave Sasha vs. Charlotte. MOTYC level rather than all-time pantheon level. They also made the belts feel like they mean a lot. I also marked for the sick fight in the middle which led to Dawson being cut open hardway, that was manly. ****1/2

Well you guys can argue it out, because I couldn't give less of a shit. I'll be back for the next ppv, or cancelling the network again, whichever happens first.

Well agree or disagree, I thought the show sucked. Best match was Zayn vs Miz at 3.5 which is a poor return for a three hour show, any promotion, any era. Brand vs brand is a fucking stupid idea that no one can get emotionally invested in. Maybe if it was Nintendo vs. Sega at the height of kids arguing about Mario and Sonic, or something like McDonalds vs. Burger King, or whatever, but Raw vs Smackdown is stupid. Sasha and Charlotte were hotter than hell last ppv, and now they are tagging and Sasha is taking a random pin right in the middle of a match? This big monster heel is kicking ass and everyone is begging off her and she ... taps out? All the biggest stars in the company assemble in one match and ... Shane McMahon is in there and actually gets in offense and has comeback moments and is given two or three of the biggest spots of the night? And is booked to be the babyface and cheered, alongside Styles, and then moments later we are meant to cheer the same guy they were just fighting (Roman) against two heels (one of whom, Bray, got a special babyface entrance) .... and then he goes and loses anyway? Oh and while we're at it, let's get the entire roster to wear t-shirts to make them look like jobbers. Great idea yeah. I mean what the fuck? It was a mess. Total crap.

And yet none of my degrees can help me make any sense of what this sentence is supposed to mean. There have been other shitty Survivor Series, but did any of them make less sense than this one? Did any of them actively bury talent and top stars with quite the same relish? I mean say what you want about the Million Dollar Corporation, at least there was never any doubt that they were the bad guys.

I'll put an early call in for this being the worst Survivor Series of all time.

Shane vs. Goldberg for Mania, book it now.

So SD won and now it has bragging rights to be the best show?

I'm so confused as to who we are meant to be rooting for.

On course for WOAT Survivor Series contender.

Why is this booked as if Raw is a heel show?

Shane is pretty over eh. More over than any of the wrestlers.

That intonation that every damn person has on their promos has got to go. One of the dirt worst tropes ever.

*1/2 decent finish.

Playing a lovely game on twitter trying to imagine what the team captains might have said to inspire brand loyalty pre-match.

I can't imagine caring about a match less than this one. Are any of these even live feuds? Even the random tag Survivor Series match from 92 had more going on than this it feels like. The t-shirts are one of the single worst things I've ever seen in wrestling.

***1/2, perfectly solid match built around a body part, with some decent heel shenanigans mixed in.

I've literally just watched Survivor Series 88 and that whole show is phenomenally well booked and has some great psychology. Fair enough, but watch '91 or beyond and they're not a far cry from that women's match. I'm not saying the women's match was blameless - there are definitely things to criticize - but I think people have rose-colored glasses about past Survivor Series matches. Yeah, they put less care into the gimmick and its nuances over time definitely.

I've literally just watched Survivor Series 88 and that whole show is phenomenally well booked and has some great psychology.

DUD