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Great that you're back on this. I'd actually agree Baba/Destroyer isn't the slam dunk for best 60's match it was once viewed as in a world where Cesca/Catanzaro has been unearthed. I would still be curious what else you'd put up there with it, though, since you're someone who's seriously dug into footage from France and other territories from the period.

Everyone should watch Lee/Everett. I can't comment on the Danielson comparison since that was my first time seeing either guy, but I think 90's AJPW is a better comparison for that particular match since you had the guys doing tribute spots anc the commentators comparing the pairing to Misawa/Kawada. I gave it ***** when I reviewed it in the match archive as I saw it as two guys who not only loved the style but had a great understanding of it and copied all the right things while giving their own unique spin to it.

It's entirely possible that instead of being insane and not caring about concussions (though I'm not denying that possibility), Fujiwara and Ishii could legit have really hard heads like Gino Martino and enjoy shocking people using them. More to the point, if your goal is to protest against high risk moves there's far better opportunities than to give a low rating to an Indy match based on a single spot. There's plenty of WWE and NJPW matches where that sort of thing would be a lot more relevant, especially stuff like MITB that has little going for it other than guys killing themselves and is marketed as such. I've fallen behind a bit on current AJPW but what I've seen of them from the past few years shows them as actually being a pretty progressive promotion in regards to getting fans to pop for a safer style, especially when compared to the old AJPW/NOAH style it's matches often ape.

Are those really different attitudes or just different "blue pill" narratives sold to a public blissfully unaware of the natural limits of the human body? Pick a sport and you'll find the history of doping in the sport is inseparable from its modern beginnings. The first popular pro wrestlers were strong men like Hackenschmidt and Sandow who used amphatemines to train and are speculated to have experiment with early testosterone supplementation. Guys have been getting popped for testosterone in Baseball since almost exactly when the hormone was isolated. Olympics... You would be kidding yourself to deny the massive doping and overall corruption that's existed since the Greeks.

Seems like a good time to discuss this given the recent string of big names testing positive. Some relevant reading http://nattyornot.com/the-real-reason-why-steroids-are-banned-from-sports/ I would suggest reading the whole thing as it is by far the best analysis of the situation I have seen online but the tl;dr version is that fans have been conditioned to expect such a high level from televised sports that PED's are basically essential to compete. Hence, drug tests basically to send a message to those on the outs with the promotion with the occasional smaller name busted to make it look like a legit program. I saw many WWE fans posting a similar view of the wellness policy in light of Roman getting popped, but it didn't seem to get much play that WWE's attitude was basically a reflection of the attitudes in other sports. You see a similar thing in boxing, for example, where several big fights have been called off due to positive drug tests while Mayweather was blatantly allowed to cheat the USADA testing in the lead-up to the Pacquiao fight. One other thing in regards to wrestling is that steroids having basically become a scape goat for what are by far the more beneficial, dangerous, and addictive PED's in pain killers. I would argue the vast majority of premature wrestler deaths have more to do with a history of pain killer abuse than steroid use. Yet, those seem pretty much essential for those on WWE's schedule and I doubt WWE could possibly exist in its current form if they started popping guys for those.

Nominating: Trevor Lee vs Andrew Everett (CWF Mid Atlantic 6/18) http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/34971-trevor-lee-vs-andrew-everett-618-cwf-mid-atlantic/

Watched this one with no idea who either guy was after seeing it pimped by shoe as ****3/4. Think it should get its own thread. A few years ago, at the peak of my AJPW fandom and before I got into BJJ and realized getting hurt isn't that fun, I would often fantasize about what it would be like to train to be a wrestler and do King Road inspired matches in front of 10 people for my local indy. I'm not going to pretend an untrained critic like myself has anywhere near the sort of expertise as these guys, but I would like to think what I imagined doing was at least somewhat similar to what these guys did here, and I'll be up front in admitting that the opportunity this match gave me to live out my Misawa/Kobashi cosplay dreams is probably the main reason this match connected with me as much as it did. The AJPW influences are pretty clear right from the beginning with a chop battle and especially a machine gun chop as clear tribute spots that somehow don't look totally ridiculous. You also get the customary high stiffness and a very good progression in the moves pulled out by both guys as the match goes on. What really sets this apart from self-conscious epics that only copy the superficial aspects of Kings Road style is in how they carried over the psychological aspects that really made those matches. By this I mean despite being 40 minute you can't really tell they plan on going that long just from their working style early on, nor can you point to any part where it feels like they're just killing time. The skill with which they utilize the time they have to work with is the most impressive part about the match. They demonstrate a great range of creativity, athleticism, and overall knowledge of the different styles of wrestling, effectively working a tour de force of tricked out grappling, crisp high flying, and hard strikes with each element seamlessly blending together into a cohesive whole. Everything builds so naturally as you have Trevor establishing a huge lead at first through some arm work and excellent cut offs, initially looking not far from getting a relatively somewhat quick win. But Andrew just kept plugging away, and, though Trevor would pull out some more cut off attempts including a beautiful dropkick during an Andrew lionsault attempt, the tide looked to be turning. The spot where Andrew began a comeback by showing Trevor his middle finger was also totally epic. I wouldn't call Andrew getting busted open off a running boot the point where the match kicks into gear as I thought it was already pretty great before that, but it was definitely a good idea to keep things interesting and it took the match in a bit of a different direction. The work on the cut was great and seeing Andrew rise his head off the mat leaving a blood stain on it was an awesome visual. The finish with Andrew coming so close but his prior injuries, including the arm work earlier in the match, catching up to him and giving Trevor the opportunity to catch him in a submission was the perfect end to the story these guys were telling. Post-match sees Brad Attitude come out to celebrate while I was in tears from the amazing match I had just seen. I completely bought into the narrative being driven home by the commentators of this being two young and mostly unknown wrestlers going out and wrestling their masterpiece for the local fans. Brad told the fans how much they should appreciate matches like this due to how likely both guys were to soon get picked up by the big leagues, and for a few moments I lay mesmerized in a strange combination of ecstasy and melancholy brought on by what I had just seen. Then he totally shat on that clichéd wankfest as he attacked both guys. *****

Some background info on Shikat and his work with Londos http://www.legacyofwrestling.com/Shikat.html What an utterly fascinating match to watch. Gymnastics have been around for a long time, guys. I'd argue the perceived lack of what would be considered modern day high spots is primarily a deliberate decision on the part of the workers to keep things looking realistic. On that note, I absolutely love the ruggedness of everything. That uncooperative looking way in which Shikat forcibly yanks Londos off his feet and into a headlock 9 minutes in is a great looking spot, and something I really appreciate after seeing so many guys jump straight into headlocks in modern matches. On the point of whether or not the match builds to a crescendo, I think a better way of describing what Loss might have been getting at is that it does have escalation but not through the sort of control segments that we're used to. Instead of having one guy spend some time theatrically selling and eating moves, it's worked as more of shoot with one guy simply gaining a better position on the mat before an escape happens and the match effectively resets to standing. Within that framework, though, I would say they do build in a good sense of progression as you see the bigger Shikat start out with a cocky grin, but then he starts to look more serious as he has a hard time dealing with Londo's quickness. The moment towards the end when they briefly bust out the strikes is also cool, and the finish with Shikat selling his hurt leg is really good. I think it's a great match even just based on the footage, though I admit it took me a few viewings to really appreciate what these guys were doing.

Dunno, based on the post-fight press conference keeping him out of the title scene seems like a good idea for now given that there looks like to be a good chance of him wanting to fight again and trying to restart his MMA career.

Fat And Lean Wrestling Match 1901 "Fat And Lean Wrestling Match" Related ----------------------------- 115 years before the Hardys thought to combine wrestling with campy action movies, there was this. I don't want to spoil it, but there's some really creative usage of film here in the context of a comedy wrestling match. At just 2 minutes long, I would recommend it to see a very interesting piece of both film and wrestling history.

http://mirc.sc.edu/islandora/object/usc%3A28626 Awesome clip here with Shikat being presented the world title due to Sonnenberg ducking him and then doing some sparring with a young guy and then an older guy (Toots Mondt?) in front of some beautiful greenery. Highlight for me was what looked to be a kimura attempt from Shikat.

Gus Sonnenberg (c) vs Joe Malcewicz AWA World Heavyweight Championship March 15, 1929 "Sonnenberg versus Malcewicz" http://mirc.sc.edu/islandora/object/usc%3A19666 Related ---------- Great to see these guys actually working holds instead of just the all-action highlights you usually get with matches from this era. I remember reading the thing that spurred on the creation of the modern working style wasn't the slow mat-work but audiences not liking the standing Greco-Roman stuff. If that's true, this match gives a nice call back to those days with them putting a lot more time and struggle in the collar-and-elbow tie-ups than we're used to seeing, and I loved that as someone who hates seeing guys treating those tie-ups as a mere formality. The mat stuff also looks cool and shooty with guys looking for submissions. Feels like a proto-shoot style match, just without the strikes.

Dick Shikat (c) vs George Calza NYSAC World Heavyweight Championship November 25, 1929 New York, NY "Heavyweight Wrestling Championship" Related ------ Much more accessible than Caddock/Stetcher. I say this mainly because it's one of the earliest big matches we have a significant amount of from after the modern working style was developed, but it's also in surprisingly good quality for how old it is and it's much easier to tell the guys apart. It's still too clipped up to judge it as an overall match and the finish seems to be misplaced at the start of the video file, but what we see is some very interesting insight into the early working style. It's obvious they're trying to entertain the fans with flashy moves and theatrical selling, but the match still looks strongly influenced by amateur wrestling and strikes are noticeably absent. Feels like a cross between old school NWA title match and WoS style with Shikat in the role of the defensive champ. A match like this could probably get over just fine on the indies today with minimal modification.

Giant Baba vs. Crusher Lisowski (12/6/67) I feel like I watched a totally different match from OJ here. I thought this was a really fun clubbering sprint between two big dudes with both of them showing enough charisma to make a pretty simply worked match entertaining. I thought Lisowski actually looked pretty good here and my favorite part of the match was his reaction when he realized Baba made him bleed. Baba himself gave a good fired up performance later in the match too with his own blade job. I'd definitely recommend it and would even call it a precursor to the 80's style, complete with double juice and cop-out finish. ***1/2 Also watched the tags, though it was too long ago to give in-depth comments on them. Off memory, I remember the gaijin team being pretty good vicious heels in the Brazil/Markoff tag, and the Earl Maynard was also fun though a noticeable step down due to it being worked as more of a comedy match. Giant Baba vs. Fritz von Erich (12/19/69) Finally found a torrent with what seems to be an oddly rare match even among hardcore collectors. Thanks so much to whoever put together the All Japan Classics compilation on XWT Classics as this is from episode 100 on that. Anyway, I would call this a pretty masterful old school heel performance from Fritz. The story sees him gaining the lead early on through cheap shots, only for Baba to then make his big comeback and try to ward off the opportunistic von Erich. Fritz is so good here working as a sleezy Memphis style heel, doing a great job with things like stalling, hiding from the ref, and jaw jacking to set up for some vicious strikes and his big claw hold. As far as I could tell, he was just unloading on Baba here without holding much back on his punches, and Baba responded by giving a much more spirited performance than usual, both on offense and in selling. The crowd gets pretty into the match and things builds really well to an epic claw hold finish. ****1/4

Such a great tribute to Bobby what with generating ridiculous heel heat by impersonating one of the biggest heels in the business.

This is my favorite Race match. In recent years, he has come under a lot of criticism (which I agree with) for often not living up to his reputation as a rugged champion. He would cut these utterly badass promos, but when the bell rung he'd just wrestle pretty much the same way as Flair By the Numbers, giving his opponent most of the match and taking these cartoony bumps. In this, he actually lives up to his hype. A few things that set this apart for me -Race is rocking an awesome beard reminiscent of Brock Lesnar. -The match is worked as more of a evenly matched contest between two of the best in the world, rather than the usual NWA defensive champ style. Race actually looks like a really good offensive wrestler in this, taking it to the underdog challenger -There is a sense of struggle behind every move. Both guys are so awesome at working holds in this with constant attempts to move into a better position and making it look like they're really trying to hurt their opponent. -Everything looks snug and is sold to feel meaningful. The characterization of Race as a mindless action guy doesn't apply here at all. They make good usage of progressive wear down selling throughout, giving it a similar feel to 90's TC matches. -As a match that steps outside of the usual NWA style, it's also a good showing of Jumbo's growth when compared to his 70's NWA title matches that see him basically being through the usual NWA style. The match is JIP 24 minutes in so I can't really be sure, but the 36 minutes shown makes me think it would probably be remembered as one of the best matches from the early 80's if it was shown on Classics in full. Based on what's available, I'd put it in the ****1/4 neighborhood. For whatever reason, this seems like a really obscure match. I have heard absolutely no pimping for it outside of Punq calling it the best match from 1980, which was what got me interested in tracking it down in the first place. Even a proper date seems difficult to find. I would be interested in hearing from anyone else who's watched this.

Is this online anywhere?

Tenryu not showing up in AJPW in 1995 and working a program with Misawa might be the biggest missed opportunity of 90's AJPW. The booking was stale as fuck that year and Tenryu, who seems to have done almost nothing that year, would have been perfect to spice things up. Would have also been a great dynamic with Tenryu as the old ass kicker taking it to the resilient ace. They do have some good interactions in tags, but this and a horribly disappointing NOAH match are all we have of that dynamic in a singles match. I had actually seen this several years ago but remembered nothing of it. I imagine someone watching this less attentively could have just written off the opening mat work as time killing before they get to The Good Shit, but I think it is actually pretty cool here how they progressively add in more grit and struggle to the holds before they go balls to the wall for the finish. As far as I can tell, this was also the first tour with Tenryu as a heel heading his stables against Jumbo's, so that also adds a little wrinkle of intrigue to those opening exchanges. I was surprised at how much Tenryu gave Misawa in the standing portion of the match and I think it shows Misawa may have already been viewed as potentially becoming a top heavyweight in a few years. Things get a bit sloppy for the finish and I could have done with a more sustained Tenryu comeback instead of him just winning with a powerbomb out of nowhere, but it's a good match overall. ***

The guy has to make a living somehow. That he's able to sit behind a booth says nothing about his mental faculties. Besides, not everyone has to believe he did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMuMIHLXS1Y Hell of a competitive squash here. You know coming in that Misawa and Nakano have no chance, and appropriately enough most of the match has them selling a rough beating from Tenry and Hara, only getting in enough offense to keep it interesting. I dug Nakano's performance in this as a sort of proto-Kikuchi, spending most of the match getting beat up but still insisting on getting into strike exchanges that you know he has no chance of winning. This is also the closest I've seen Tiger Mask look to the ace he would later become. In othermatches, he often sits in holds like he has no has no idea what to do. But here he wrestles exactly like you'd want a younger version of Misawa to be like, dishing out hard strikes, taking equally equally hard strikes, and hitting spectacular moves almost all cleanly. I say almost because he does seem to hurt his lower back later in the match attempting a bridged german suplex, but even that arguably adds to the drama of the match for how he has to tag out right when he gets some good momentum going. Good showcase overall for the lesser ranked team and great work also by Tenryu and Hara helping get their opponents over in defeat. ***3/4

This definitely adds some credibility to the political hit theory.

I had the exact opposite impression in that I felt that Cena/Styles did a good job of having a unique layout and cohesive narrative to make it feel special and separate from WWE's usual self-conscious epics. For most of it, you had AJ Styles as the technically superior wrester cutting Cena off at every turn and proving everything he said going into the match. As it progressed, though, the tide slowly turned through a combination of AJ's cockiness giving Cena openings and AJ having difficulty keeping up with Cena's grit and determination. Then you get the ref bump and the finish because AJ is a heel and that's how heels should win. I wouldn't call it a MOTYC but I'd put it around ****.

You're probably thinking of their CC 1996 match and I agree. I get a little disappointed every time I look at a new Classics listing and see that match not airing.

Watched this because I felt like some WWF Togo and actually thought this was a really good 5 minute sprint. Really a credit to both guys that they managed to have a good match despite the TV production trying its damndest to prevent such a thing from happening.

http://www.ntv.co.jp/G/prowrestling/allthatkobashikenta/ It's basically just a re-airing of famous Kobashi matches matches that have already been released on DVD, but this match airing tomorrow caught my eye 9/10/1995 Nippon Budokan (4v4 Survival Tag Match) Toshiaki Kawada/Giant Baba vs. Stan Hansen/Kenta Kobashi Does anyone know if this fragment or the rest of the match is already out there? Sounds really interesting just to see Hansen and Kobashi tagging.