Microstatistics

A little late but here is my WrestleMania review. Decent but utterly bizarre show. Seth Rollins vs. Finn Balor vs. The Miz: Don't care about any of these guys but this was alright. Action packed. Solid opener. Charlotte vs. Asuka: I don't usually care about booking and maybe it's because I don't really like Charlotte but fuck that finish. What a waste of Asuka's momentum and the streak. Plus the way it was executed made it so much worse. Charlotte, with an injured arm, grabs a Figure 8 out of nowhere and the invincible Asuka submits within seconds? Really? Good match but the finish left a bad taste in my mouth. Jinder Mahal vs. Randy Orton vs. Bobby Roode vs. Rusev: Kind of a nothing match to be honest Kurt Angle/Ronda Rousey vs. Triple H/Stephanie McMahon: Not a great match or even close but a really fun spectacle and, like people said, way better than expected. Kurt and HHH wrestling in slow motion was odd but Stephanie's heel antics were fantastic. She was arguably the MVP. I like KB8's Naoya Ogawa comparision for Ronda except Ogawa was terrible during his first year. Ronda looked great. Very fluid with natural charisma and energy. Bludgeon Brothers vs. Usos vs. New Day - Decent squash, I guess the Bludgeon Brothers are the Braun of the tag division John Cena vs. The Undertaker - I like the idea of Cena crying about the Undertaker for weeks and then getting squashed because he wasn't prepared for him actually showing up. Daniel Bryan/Shane McMahon vs. Kevin Owens/Sami Zayn ​- Ok match, though I expected more violence and hate. Great to see Bryan back though. Alexa Bliss vs. Nia Jax - Second best match of the night. Jax destroying Mickie James from the get-go was great. Alexa was awesome here. I think she's quite underrated in general. In between the chickenshit act, there was eye gouging and neat attacks on the leg. She took some nutty bumps near the end too. AJ Styles vs. Shinsuke Nakamura - Best match of the night. I know people were disappointed by this, which is understandable, but I liked it a lot. Not quite great but still. Not a fan of Nakamura but he turned a great performance here: intense, focused with some excellent knee selling. Styles was Styles. Working a more "epic" formula would probably have fit the setting better but I liked the deliberate pacing and attention to detail. Braun Strowman/Nicholas vs. Cesaro/Sheamus - Cesaro's interactions with the kid made this. Probably a little long. Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns - Brock would probably make my Top 50 if we did GWE again. Roman is really good. Their WM31 match is an all time classic. Yet, I was skeptical. And for good reason. This was bad. To be fair, there were some neat moments that saved it from being complete trash. Brock tossing pieces of the table at the German announce team, Roman getting suplexed face first into the table, Brock hooking both legs on the finish, Lesnar's high knee, the awkward violent spear into the table. Other than that, this was borderline awful. It was obviously Roman was going to kick out of an F-5 (maybe two) since they had protected it for a year. But the 3 F-5 kickouts in a row was ridiculous and the match essentially ventured into parody territory. The hardway spot was completely wasted too and meant nothing at the end of the day. Roman kicking out of 2 more F-5s (5 total) only to be pinned by a 6th was mindnumbingly stupid. Both guys were boring and brought nothing when it came to selling or character work (a complete 180 from their match 3 years ago). Bad performance by both. Plus the fact Roman is likely going to win the title at the end of the month makes all of this even more pointless.

Project has been really fun so far. Tons of matches have been nominated from different eras and regions. But we need a lot more participation. It's sort of stagnated since February with only a handful of people posting.

Pretty much this. Nothing even comes close. The depth of discussion and sheer diversity of styles/promotions covered from every era and region is not something you are going to get anywhere else. It's not without its flaws (certain people being needlessly unpleasant, some elitist attitudes) but the good easily overwhelms the negatives.

What matches have you been watching? Seeing him as a fired up rookie selling his ass off has been one of my favorite things about the recent explosion in AJPW footage. The Kawada match especially is some great stuff. I was thinking about the Kobashi and Akiyama GHC title matches. He was decent in the former and mediocre in the latter but people were saying he outworked both of them which I strongly disagree with. Additionally, the highly pimped Saito match from 2003 was really disappointing. He was just kind of there in some of the NOAH tags and trios I watched. With regards to most overrated and most underrated I got Shawn Michaels, Naoya Ogawa and Hiroshi Tanahashi. Shawn is obviously the undisputed GOAT or everything wrong with US wrestling/not good enough for a Top 500 list. Naoya Ogawa is either an awful worker who ruined Hashimoto or an amazing badass shooter. Tanahashi is the best wrestler of the generation or beyond terrible. Angle and Takada are great picks as well. I agree with the Lou Thesz pick for underrated. Huge influence/star obviously but maybe the best of the Golden Age guys. Some more most underrated picks Yuji Nagata - Has his flaws but has racked up a pretty impressive career with some very strong performances. Yoshihisa Yamamoto - Outstanding on the mat Koji Kanemoto - Not the best seller but overall he has had a fantastic career with good/great matches against a variety of people over a pretty long period of time. Good babyface, great heel. Franz Van Buyten - I guess footage is an issue but he impressed the hell out of me when I checked out some of the Germany stuff. Great seller, all time great babyface. El Samurai - Gets overshadowed by Liger and Ohtani (as he should) but he more than held up his end in those all time classic matches. Some more most overrated picks Riki Choshu - Still a fan but I've soured on him over the years. All his best matches are against absolute superworkers. Choshu brings his intensity and strong selling but it's pretty obvious those guys are basically carrying him because in constructing singles matches against others, he is very, very limited. Very good tag/multi-man wrestler though. Low Ki - Even though I'm a big fan of stiffness in wrestling, Ki is exhibit A for why just because you work stiff doesn't mean you're a good worker. Very dull to watch, lack of charisma, disappointing matches unless it's against Bryan. LA Park - Hurts me to say this but his brawls are too formulaic and that's why none of them really standout. Dusty Rhodes - I really like the bionic elbow. That's about it though. Takeshi Ono - The hybrid BattlARTS style is one of my favorites but, similar to Tamon Honda, I feel a lot of praise directed towards him is hyperbolic. Great offense but very limited in other facets.

Most Underrated Mariko Yoshida - Her 1999-01 run as good as anyone's in history. Azumi Hyuga - Great ace, versatile, excellent seller, great matches during Joshi's dead period. Megumi Kudo - Along with Foley and Onita, the best ever at working the hardcore style. Clive Myers - Best British guy outside the usual suspects. Great technician + personality. Yoji Anjoh - Same argument as Myers but for shoot style. I think this is spot on. And since we are on that subject Most Overrated Ron Garvin Blue Panther - I've done a 180 on Panther. Used to think he was one of the Lucha greats but looking back I have found a lot of his matches disappointing. CM Punk - Good worker, charismatic but no where near as good as his peers. Lack of high end stuff outside of the Joe Series and the Brock match. Stan Hansen Tamon Honda - A weird pick since he works the kind of style I usually like but think he is underwhelming more often than not and the praise is hyperbolic. Ted DiBiase - Pretty versatile and dependable but more a solid hand than a great worker. Keiji Mutoh - Wildly inconsistent Andre the Giant - I can understand the appeal since he was something unique but in terms of actual good/great matches, he has very little going on. Harley Race - Mind numbingly boring Hulk Hogan - I won't deny the energy and charisma during his prime but as a worker, he was not very good. Best matches were against Bockwinkel, Fujinami, Tenryu and one guess who was doing the heavy lifting in those matches. Alluding to the point El-P was making, just because someone is "incorrectly" labelled as terrible, doesn't suddenly make them good or great when you try and rectify that perception. The pendulum effect describes it perfectly. Steve Williams - Misawa got a great match out of him in 94 but I find him pretty dull in most other settings. Worst Kobashi opponent ever by a huge margin. John Cena - Still like him quite a lot, great ace. But his big match formula + many matches do not age well at all, inconsistent, lack of high end stuff. Dustin Rhodes - Really liked him in 91-94 but he has gaping holes in his career + inconsistencies + lack of high end stuff.

To be fair, people on the board do that as well.

The best of the series and one of the greatest matches of all time. Here Tamura combines his confidence and improved skill from the previous match with new found maturity and so is a much bigger threat. Han realizes this and is almost desperate in his attempts to end the match as quickly as possible. Probably the best Volk Han performance ever with the desperation, urgency, incredible submission assaults and even some arrogance. Tamura weathering the storm and cerebrally going for kill shots is excellent. That almost knock out blow from Han JKWebb mentioned rules and Han's reaction to it is the moment from the match that stuck with me the most. Just a last ditch effort from the maestro to salvage things as he realizes he has been surpassed. Sort of drew parallels to the Taue eleventh-hour eye claw on Misawa from the CC95 Final. Excellent, decisive finish. ****7/8

While the selling was fine for the most part, I agree that they moved from spot to spot a little too quickly and didn't let things breathe enough. Otherwise, this was really good. Nice heel-face dynamic and a very strong mix of modern high impact wrestling with stiff strikes and solid grappling and submission exchanges. As mentioned, some individual spots were pretty memorable. Clever finish. *** 3/4

In fucking INDIA ! That's why the WWE Universe suffered through this entire godawful Jinder Mahal main event push for months ! Awful matches, awful PPV main events, racist angles and whatnot. Because the fucking Indian Markettm. And in the end, Triple H beats the guy in Delhi ? Bwahahahahah ! Yeah this pretty much sums it up. While awful is a little harsh, it wasn't exactly one of the great title reigns of the modern era. And at the end of it, HHH goes over. HHH in the last few years was been really weird. Either he'll selflessly put someone over (Bryan, Shield, Reigns, Rollins) or he'll insert himself and win in situations where it's counterproductive or self-serving (derailing Lesnar, Sting, Survivor Series 17, this).

After a rewatch, this is the definite MOTY for me and in the Top 5 for the overall decade (along with 10/24/10 Futen tag, Shawn/Taker, Brock/Roman and Hechicero/Lucero).

Knee Lifts - Yoshihiro Takayama European Uppercuts - Daniel Bryan, Cesaro

I'm asking this earnestly - when did this "Brock is shot" narrative start? I thought he was the best performer in the SummerSlam match and he worked his ass off. Then he and Braun had a middling match (one I oddly liked still a good bit) and since he "allegedly" hampered Braun in this match (Braun looked just as gassed), i've seen this line of thinking pushed a lot more. Dylan Waco in the No Mercy thread was acting as though Lesnar was going to die in the middle of the ring vs. Braun due to exhaustion and in the process sabotaged Braun. I get not liking the match and Brock's performance but I thought that was quite an overreaction. I'm not blaming Dylan but I think that's where the narrative shifted from "Brock is lazy" to "Brock is physically done". Having said that and having enjoyed Brock's work vs. Goldberg and some others, I still agree with Boss Rock's point about Brock not being the same since 2012-15 (though I'll say it's more due to offensive laziness than poor conditioning).

After thinking about it more, I think these describe me as well. My tastes have definitely expanded in that I like more styles and types of wrestlers/wrestling than before but the stuff I consider to be all time great has substantially shrunk.

For some of us, yeah. But I'd guess there are more fans out there who mark out far bigger for the sick moves. I like violent looking strikes as much as anyone but I don't think it's that simple. Context is important. Sometimes a dragon suplex on the apron is necessary over an elbow strike so in that situation, the sick move is better. Also, I'm not a fan of stiffness for the sake of stiffness but I think the punches that actually land are usually better than worked punches. Not many people do worked punches well, the obvious exception being Lawler. Even Satanico (the GOAT puncher for me) punches seem like actual strikes to me based on the fact the you can actually hear the impact.

My favorite mini (and some full fledged) feuds, excluding many of the usual suspects. Jushin Liger vs. Naoki Sano Chigusa Nagayo vs. Dump Matsumoto Akira Hokuto vs. Shinobu Kandori Marty Jones vs. Mark Rocco Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Jack Brisco Megumi Kudo vs. Shinobu Kandori Eddie Guerrero vs. Kurt Angle William Regal vs. Dean Ambrose Yuki Ishikawa vs. Carl Greco Tatsumi Fujinami vs. Shinya Hashimoto Yoshihisa Yamamoto vs. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka Mariko Yoshida vs. Yumi Fukawa Kazushi Sakuraba vs. Hiromitsu Kanehara Genichiro Tenryu vs. Nobuhiko Takada Shinjiro Ohtani vs. Eddie Guerrero (as Black Tiger II) Brock Lesnar vs. John Cena Bryan Danielson vs. Nigel McGuiness Shinjiro Ohtani vs. Tajiri Shinya Hashimoto vs. Riki Choshu Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker Volk Han vs. Mitsuya Nagai Volk Han vs. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka Volk Han vs. Yoshihisa Yamamoto Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Tsuyoshi Kohsaka Bret Hart vs. Davey Boy Smith El Hijo del Santo vs. Espanto Jr. Yoshiaki Fujiwara vs. Super Tiger Vader vs. Sting

Yeah, I'd say I'm comfortable with my Top 8 or so. After that, everything's a little iffy.

Maybe I have been watching the wrong stuff but AJ's New Japan run seems to be lacking in high end/great matches. Yeah the Suzuki match is awesome but there's not much more for MOTYC level stuff.

Surprised no one has mentioned it yet but Yuki Ishikawa vs. Daisuke Ikeda for me and pretty easily at this point. All time classic matches, great singles matches, diversity in terms of how their matches are worked, variety in terms of roles (face/heel), hierarchy etc + tons of tremendous interactions in tags and multimans and longevity.

One of my favorite things about WWE Bryan is that even with all the goofiness and yes chants and what not, he was still able to wrestle a gritty and violent style. Some vicious and focused legwork on Harper who turns in a pretty outstanding selling performance. Really impressive how they managed to construct a great match considering the circumstances: 1) they are given just a few minutes on free TV (including ad time), 2) this takes place in the middle of a larger gauntlet match, 3) in typical WWE fashion, the focus is on Rollins/Orton backstage stuff. Bryan also takes a Misawa bump on a half nelson suplex, which is insane given the condition of his neck. Beautiful, beautiful payoff and finish. ****

Shawn for me and pretty easily. Much superior tag work, his best matches are considerably better. IMO, the 94-97 is superior to any of AJ's runs including the 2014-current run NintendoLogic mentioned (maybe not week to week but high end matches wise). Similar versatility and adaptability with regards to different opponents and types of matches. Shawn has had disappointing and wildly overhyped matches but so has AJ (I personally hate the Cena series, the Nakamura match is not very good). I will say I'm not surprised Styles is winning by a landslide here. Though he did very well in GWE (39), the impression I have got is that his WWE run has really made people take notice and reevaluate him and the perception has gone from "oh that really good worker" to "one of the modern greats".

Wow, I am way off from the consensus on this one.

The main event was utterly bizarre and nonsensical but I liked HHH's terrified facial expression after the match. It really put Braun over the top.

I can see why someone might prefer the Goldberg match as it was tighter and more impactful. But I don't see how the Strowman match could top this or even the Joe match. Care to expound? Some specifics: The initial Brock domination of AJ was too deliberate for me, I much preferred how it was done in the Cena and Roman matches. Styles comebacks were also too sudden and not very compelling. I am a big proponent of spots not looking perfect, slightly uneven execution and even "botches" but here, it just came off as awkward rather than uncooperative or gritty. For example that tornado DDT counter spot looked pretty bad, I didn't think they redeemed it too well. But, overall, I preferred the pacing and structure of those matches. This probably had better individual spots but, as a whole, those matches were just constructed better. There was just something intrinsically iffy about the pacing in this match. Probably not a terribly helpful explanation but there it is.

"The Wife of Stephanie McMahon", there is no way that wasn't intentional

Good match but pretty disappointing overall. I preferred the Goldberg, Joe and Strowman matches for Lesnar. Brock toned down suplex city so I suspect people are going to like this the best. Something about the pacing was off and it felt awkward at times. Still, good individual performances by both. Some really great bumping by AJ and he got in quite a lot of offense. Neat leg selling by Brock. Him violently powering out of the calf crusher was the best, most memorable spot. *** 1/4