joeg

People keep talking about Nak being wasted in NXT, what about Sombra... they haven't done shit with him, they are dressing him up in goofy suspenders like early Tommy Dreamer.

60s- Baba vs Destroyer 3/5/69 70s- Funks vs Abby and Sheik RWTL 77 Final (I might be thinking of a different Funks vs Abby and Sheik match, but I loved the whole series) 80s- Flair vs Steamboat 3/18/89 (the Landover, MD house show) 90s- Kobashi and Kikuchi vs Can Am Express 5/25/92 00s- Kobashi vs Akiyama NOAH Departure '04 10s- Cena vs Punk Money in the Bank '11

NOMINATING- Matt Riddle vs Katsuyori Shibata RevPro 1/21/17 This was a lot a fun. It was a Shibata type match where they just beat the shit out of each other at a frenzied pace. Some really great echanges. Hot crowd. Only problem with it is there's some limbwork that doesn't go anywhere, but in the scheme of things, you don't expect much working over a body part in a Shibata type of match.

I'd probably put Flair at 50ish 4 star plus on tape. I think it would have to be a member of the 90s All Japan crew. Between TV, commercial releases, Classics, everything with Pro Wrestling NOAH, etc. That crew I'd put at 150 or so 4 star plus matches, each. Going from the late 80s to the mid 00s wrestling working that style, with as many of those matches as made TV, easily over 100 for each of that crew.

I don't understand your logic at all... how could they have pushed Omega harder? He debuted by winning the Jr title, and held onto it for most of the year. Then after a year of that he dropped the title, and moved to heavyweight. When he moved up to heavyweight he won the IC title, G1 and mainevented in the Dome in a matter of like 10 months. How did they waste him? Should they have debuted both he and Ibushi at heavyweight even though neither of them are heavyweights and were coming from a junior heavy company? And Shibata is damaged goods, that's why he's gotten the treatment he's gotten since his return, everybody knows that. When people criticize NJPW's booking it boggles my mind sometimes. Its been the most consistently good booking for like 6 years now.

90s. Japan was just booming for the entire decade. Seriously like 10 different promotions in the 90s did like 15,000 plus at least once in Japan. AAA in Mexico was hellafun with Los Gringos Locos and Rey Jr/Psicosis/Juvi for a stretch. CMLL was awesome for awhile with El Santo's rudo run vs Casas. In America there were great alternatives in SMW and ECW. WWF and WCW were down for a large chunk of the decade, but picked up later in the decade.

Sometimes I don't know if you are trolling or not... Naito was pinned like 6 times in all of 2016. When they made the first big push for him (when he won the G1) back 4 years ago, it just didn't work out the way that Okada's push the year prior worked out.

The houses went up at the end of this year though for New Japan. WWE took the top 4 ganjins and 2 of the top natives and New Japan only dipped down for the first half of the year. They did such a great job building Omega and Naito that they actually drew better in the G1 and at the Dome...

Meltzer has given out more than 5 stars before. Steamboat vs Flair house show from the CapCenter in Landover 3/89, Tenryu and Jumbo vs Choshu and Yatsu from Jan 86, Toyota vs Inoue from 5/92, and Tenryu vs Jumbo 6/89. There was also a Flair vs Windam house show that he gave more than 5 stars as well as a joshi tag.

El Phantasmo vs Kyle O'Reilly (ECCW 1/14/2017)- NO This match had a hot crowd and Phantasmo has some springs for legs. That's the good. The bad- There was so many over contrived, overly cooperative spots in this match. And this is coming from somebody who like Okada vs Omega (and usually likes Okada's work in general so I have a high tolerance for athletic overly cooperative nonsense). With that said there were several times in the match where I was like what the fuck. Really I feel like Phantasmo missed his calling as a gymnast. Anyways there was a really hot crowd and that sort of saved it from being unwatchable.

YES to Dunne vs Bate. I had never seen either of these guys. Really enjoyed this, enjoyed the shoulder work and Bate's comeback.

I've asked this before and never really gotten a good answer, who was hottest at that time? Meada? Tenryu? Fujinami? Choshu? etc.

Shibata vs Goto - NO Naito vs Tanahashi - YES Omega vs Okada - YES Thoughts on those in the WK11 thread. Strong BJ vs Twin Towers- YES I really enjoyed this. I thought it was a half step below some of their best they had back in 2015 (it was 2015 right?) but still a lot of fun. That headbutt was unreal. Maybe my favorite so far. Nominating- Kushida vs Takahashi NJPW 1/4 When was the last time the Dome crowd gave a shit about a junior match? I can't think of it. Thats what these guys accomplished, they made the Dome crowd care about a Junior match that involved a guy who had been away on excursion for the past 3 years. Yeah there were botched spots, but that almost added to the frenetic pace of the match. This was exactly what it needed to be- Takahashi returning and being crowned as the next junior ace.

It was a 20 minute match. When it aired on TV, it was cut down to 7, I think there was a commercial release where 14 minutes are there. But some of the early matwork was really sloppy. Then that dive to the outside was a big miss, that doesn't come across on TV, Psicosis dove and fell hard headfirst to the pavement and went back in and blew his next 3 spots. It looked early on like he might have been a little under the influence from the crowd (that doesn't come across on TV) then from the crowd it looked like he had knocked himself silly on that dive (which does sort of come across). But ultimately the fuck ups kind of made the match in that they got heat on Psicosis and he looked like he had a concussion from kicks as opposed to fucking up and landing awkwardly on his head twice.

So thoughts on the show- The junior title match was exactly what it needed to be - a corination of Kamatachi as the next junior Ace. Its the equivilent to Okada coming back and beating Tanahashi in his first mactch back in 2012. The kept Kushida strong the past year or so, beating Omega, winning the Super J Cup, etc., just so that when Kamataichi debuted it would matter. Actually I think this is really smart booking. The main event was really really good. I don't know if its 6 stars one of the 3 or 4 greatest of all time good, but it was really good. I can see complaints about length and uneven selling, but it was an epic physical brawl with crazy athleticism that told a semi logical story. Also they some how managed to draw a slightly bigger crowd this year than last without having Nakamura, Styles, etc on the the show. I don't know if 26,000 paid turns a profit on a Dome show, but Omega and Naito have to take some credit for the uptick in attendance in the second half of the year. A year ago it looked like New Japan could be in a bad way without Nakamura, Ibushi, Styles, etc but attendance either stayed the same or went up at every major show so obviously regardless of what we all think of Omega, he's doing something right.

In no particular order- Misawa vs Kawada AJPW 25th Anniversary, probably the pinnacle of over the top late 90s AJPW excess Misawa vs Vader Baba Memorial Vader vs Inoki Hashimoto vs Takada Hashimoto and Iizuka vs Ogawa and Murakami Hashimoto vs Ogawa 1/4/99, 10/11/99, and 4/7/00. I think of these as the ultimate less is more type matches, such a hot crowd. Unfortunately the feud almost killed the territory. Kobashi vs Akiyama Kobashi vs Sasaki Nakamura vs Sakuraba Nakamura vs Ibushi

Was there. They actually editted this match down a lot when it went on TV. Psychosis was kinda fucked up. He was blowing a bunch of spots and getting the "You fucked up" chants. None of that made the TV broadcast. What did make the broadcast was the auidence going nuts for him getting fucking wrecked by Tajiri.

I have to disagree with a lot of the people here. I thoroughly enjoyed this. I am no Kenny Omega fan, probably this was second time ever I enjoyed one of his matches ( I enjoyed one of the Golden Lover vs Apollo 55 tags back in 2010 which I loved for what it was). Is it one of the 3 or 4 greatest matches ever? No. Would be a MOTYC in most years? Yeah. As an aside I found the match and the entire show for that part to unwatchable with English commentary, I was only able to watch the match and enjoy it with the Japanese commentary. And I have to disagree about the Dragon Suplex spot and the backdrop. I actively disliked both spots because they were super dangerous, career shortening spots and managed to add nothing to story of the match. I haven't seen a lot of people here talk about how physical and violent the match was. It was downright brutal in some parts. The physicality combine with the holy shit athleticism is what made the match for me. It was poorly paced, and the selling was uneven, but I loved it for what it was.

Am just starting it now, spoiler free (didn't read any of above posts), but got a text today informing me that there were 4 matches on the show that were 5 stars... I love how ROH people overhype stuff.

Bill Burr doing commentary on Inoki vs Great Antonio

It was on one of the old Naylor or Schneider comps way back when... there was an exploding barbed wire match featuring 6 minis. The match was on an AJW show I think.... anybody know what I'm talking about?

Now I kind of want somebody to play devil's advocate and make a strong arguement for Great Khali over Bret Hart... I'd listen. But really as long as somebody makes their argument respectfully there's really no wrong opinion.

When did Dominick Cruz turn heel?

I semi agree with the troll. There are more super athletic matches today, no doubt. There are more guys today who in wrestling who are great athletes doing crazy athletic mind blowing stuff, I agree with everyone who says that. But I think the troll is right, there are fewer guys who I personally have an invested emotional interest in. There are fewer matches where I personally am emotionally invested. There are fewer angles and feuds I'm emotionally invested in.

clips of Ole shoots on Flair-