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Everything posted by ohtani's jacket
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My New Year's Revolution: The Rewatchening
ohtani's jacket replied to NintendoLogic's topic in Pro Wrestling
Dump wrestled more as a rookie, and again on her farewell tour where she slimmed down and played more of a babyface role. -
Who is better - Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan or Bret Hart?
ohtani's jacket replied to MoS's topic in Pro Wrestling
The Hitman character clearly grew stronger during Bret's singles push, but most of the guys who were packaged together in tag teams showed limited personality. It wasn't until they broke out, or turned on their partner, that they began to develop their character. The Hart Foundation gimmick was decent enough. They needed a mouthpiece in Jimmy Hart, but they could work face or heel, and folks knew what they were all about. I was a fan of the Hart Foundation as a kid, and I remember being excited that the Hitman got a singles push when I rediscovered wrestling in the mid-90s. I think the turning point for Bret was when he started having more singles matches in 1989. One advantage Bret has over Bryan is that great matches were few are far apart when Bret was active. They were the exception not the rule. The fact that there were less pay-per-views made the great matches stand out even more, as well as the fact that the TV rarely featured competitive matches. Bret's best matches became part of WWF folklore. Bryan's work may be better than Bret, but how many matches has he had in the WWF that are as legendary as Bret's? I can't shake the feeling that Bret's great matches are more organic than Bryan's. I could be way off, but Bryan always feels like he's drawing on other people's work. There's nothing wrong with shaping your influences into a great match, but it seems like something he's consciously doing while a lot of Bret's matches feel like there was something in the water that day and the match turned out great. -
Who is better - Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan or Bret Hart?
ohtani's jacket replied to MoS's topic in Pro Wrestling
Let's not pretend they were all conquering indy heroes. They were both sent to development and Bryan was cut twice. -
Who is better - Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan or Bret Hart?
ohtani's jacket replied to MoS's topic in Pro Wrestling
The likes of Eddie, Rey, Benoit and Jericho all went through the same struggles that Bryan did getting over the hump in WWF. I don't think Bryan would have made it without those guys before him, and the likes of Bret and Michaels before them. I'm pretty sure the only guy Vince ever wanted to push out of the lot of them was Shawn because he was Vince's sexy boy. -
This was over 40 minutes long. Is that too long? Probably. But it was scrappy and hard fought, and that's all I can ask for from a Japanese match in '02. There were some breathtaking exchanges worked at lightning pace, and some new counters and sequences added to the mix. Momoe added a few new offensive tricks, but more importantly she stood up for herself against Maekawa's bully-boy tactics. She copped one in the mouth and bled hard way, which you've got to salute. The finishing stretch was as close to flawless as you're gonna see from these two, and as usual, Momoe's grit and determination shone through. Definitely in the upper tier of matches so far, if you don't mind long, drawn-out contests.
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[2002-03-30-ROH-Round Robin Challenge] Low Ki vs American Dragon
ohtani's jacket replied to Loss's topic in March 2002
These guys know how to work the type of match I like. I swear they were buying BattlARTS tapes from Scott Mailman. That has to be where they got the headbutts from. Later on, there is a lot of All Japan influence with the blocked suplexes, but the mat phase looked like something from a BattlARTS tape, and we're all the better for it. Low Ki is such a fantastic worker. All I ever hear about him is the bad rap that dogs him. Perhaps that's justifiably so, but the dude was sensational in the early 00s. The gimmick shouldn't work -- some kind of gangsta take on Kung Fu's Grasshopper? But he totally makes makes it work. He comes across as committed, legit, and gangbuster in the ring. I love the dude. The second half of the match has too many bombs, but whatcha gonna do? You've got to try to win somehow. Can't see much topping this in 2002. It may not be the most original wrestling in the world, but they piece their influences together in a compelling way. -
Who is better - Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan or Bret Hart?
ohtani's jacket replied to MoS's topic in Pro Wrestling
I do want to say that crediting Bryan and CM Punk for turning WWE into a workrate territory where smaller guys can be champ dismisses the progress that Benoit, Guerrero, Jericho, Mysterio Jr., Angle, etc. made during the previous decade. Heck, even Shawn played in his part during that era. Workrate began to improve when the WCW guys jumped. -
Who is better - Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan or Bret Hart?
ohtani's jacket replied to MoS's topic in Pro Wrestling
Well, there you go. -
This was another strong entry in the Wagner vs. Warrior feud. It was more of a brawling trios than the week before with the rudos taking a hands on approach in an effort to avenge their loss. Wagner looked more more assertive than in recent weeks and showed the star quality you'd expect from him. As much as I love watching Black Tiger beat up tecnicos, I thought Fuerza made an excellent addition to the team. He knows this type of wrestling inside out and works extremely well with Panther as the foil to the main storyline. The jury is still out on Black Warrior, however. Antifaz and Niebla kicked ass during the tecnico comeback and looked positively badass. Warrior, on the other hand, looked comparatively weaker. It didn't help that his big spots weren't as slick as they needed to be. Warrior's at a disadvantage having a smaller body than other tecnicos. He needs to lift his game otherwise he'll come across as little more than a gnat buzzing in Wagner's face.
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This was a decent match albeit, shorter than I would have liked. The rudos punked Black Warrior at the beginning, which naturally Black Tiger relished. I don't think there was anyone better at beating up tecnicos at this point in time. Atlantis appeared to injure himself in the early going, which led to some awkward exchanges, but it must have been a stinger as he came firing back in the second caida. He had some fantastic exchanges in this match. I'll never tire of watching him going at it with Blue Panther, and he had some awesome sequences with Wagner and Tiger as well. This is what makes Atlantis so good, but it's also the reason why he's so underrated. Most folks are never going to see this awesome performance he had in a run-of-the-mill weekly TV match. He had so many performances like this that frankly he may be the best tecnico trios worker ever. The tecnicos stormed back in this match, and the shot we were left with was Wagner with his mask ripped open, looking nonplussed. The only problem with the match was that both Atlantis and Niebla came across as better tecnicos than Black Warrior. Warrior has always been a good number three guy in a trio. I have my doubts about whether he can be the lead guy, especially against a guy who craves the limelight as much as Wagner.
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Who is better - Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan or Bret Hart?
ohtani's jacket replied to MoS's topic in Pro Wrestling
Who are you to doubt Malenko and Finlay? C'mon now. Not that I'd expect Bret to have good matches with them. -
Who is better - Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan or Bret Hart?
ohtani's jacket replied to MoS's topic in Pro Wrestling
Maybe they're supposed to be bad. Perhaps it's some kind of meta thing. Give me Bret swearing on TV any day of the week. -
Who is better - Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan or Bret Hart?
ohtani's jacket replied to MoS's topic in Pro Wrestling
The promos Bryan cut in his heel turn are some of the worst I have heard in all my years of watching professional wrestling. That may because I am old, but you cannot compare Bret's phenomenal heel turn and promos in 1997 to Bryan's heel turn. Bryan doesn't strike me as a great promo, or a great actor for that matter. His heel work in ROH never struck me as good. He tries hard, that's for sure, but it's an act. When Bret turned heel there was always an element of real life frustrations boiling to the surface. It was a worked shoot era, admittedly, but I would take Bret over Danielson any day when it comes to acting. -
I did my own little tribute to MF DOOM by reading some classic Doom stories while listening to his music. Emperor Doom offers up an interesting premise -- what if Doom took over the world and actually made it a better place? Doom solves the world's problems in short order, leaving the heroes with the moral quandary of whether it's right to have a utopia with no free will. Doom, for his part, grows bored with no one to challenge his authority. A decent Avengers yarn, but it wraps up too neatly, especially for the graphic novel format. I could understand it if it was in the monthly books, but I expected more from a prestige format book. Next up were the Wally Wood Doom stories. These were like a whirlwind. I had no idea what was going on half the time. Things just randomly happened. But the wackiness fit with the samples that MF DOOM liked to use from the Fantastic Four cartoon, and the art was great, as you'd expect. Lastly, the Doom arc from Fantastic Four #196-200. MF DOOM actually used a panel from #199 for one of his album covers, which is cool. The main event here is the double-sized anniversary issue with an epic showdown between Doom and Richards. It's a tremendous heavyweight fight. Richards had his powers juiced earlier in the storyline, and Doom snaps during their fight and nearly chokes Richards to death. The ending was brutal. You could easily read this as a standalone issue and skip all of the build up. I thought it was terrific. The art wasn't very dynamic, but the story lived up to its billing and was befitting of the occasion.
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Who is better - Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan or Bret Hart?
ohtani's jacket replied to MoS's topic in Pro Wrestling
The Bret/Owen cage match is a brilliant masterpiece. I have no idea why people misunderstand it. The Bret/Shawn ladder match is from a Superstars taping in '93. -
Who is better - Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan or Bret Hart?
ohtani's jacket replied to MoS's topic in Pro Wrestling
Bret and Shawn had a ladder match and a cage match, too, fwiw. Their rivalry was about more than just their matches. They were like two All-Stars playing in different conferences. Each striving to be MVP, each checking the other guy's numbers trying to top them. I have to check this Wyatt match out because I honestly don't think I'd be a wrestling fan anymore if it wasn't for Bret vs. Diesel at Survivor Series '95. -
Guy Robin vs. Al Araujo (aired 11/27/59) This was available before, but it's a much better watch now that we're familiar with the workers. Al Araujo is a fantastic worker in the same vein as Ami Sola. These type of workers have been the best revelation about 50s Catch. I haven't been as high on Robin as the others, but he did some cool stuff in this match and showed a different side to him as a worker. Up until now, he's come across as a stooge, but this showed us he could hang with the niftier workers too. It's a crying shame that the TV was so fickle. If this had been ITV, you'd see these guys on TV half a dozen times a year. Rene Ben Chemoul vs. Gilbert Cesca (aired 11/27/59) I need to watch this again. The first time I saw it, I thought it was a masterpiece and one of the best matches of the 50s. This time I was distracted by how many times they whip each other into the turnbuckle instead of dazzling us on the mat. Like I said, I really need to take another look at it. There's a chance that it's not as special as I thought now that we have so much footage to compare it too. On the other hand, Ben Chemoul has been such a disappointment in singles that this is the match to really sink my teeth into and finally figure out whether he was any damn good. And Cesca is so mysterious and enticing. I'm repeating myself here, but I wish they'd shown more of his matches on television. He could be one of the all-time greats, or he could be a guy who rose to the occasion every now and again. How are we to know? I really should have watched this again before posting because I don't have anything worthwhile to say about it. Cheri Bibi & Pierre Bernaert vs. Warnia de Zarzecki & Ami Sola (aired 12/11/59) We get the last 15 minutes of this, which by rights should be the most exciting part, but it seems that Bibi and Bernaret have improved in their villainy. And so end the 50s. To be honest, I thought there was a drop-off in quality from '57-59, but perhaps that's because everything was new and shiny when we began. There seemed to be more variety when it came to which wrestlers were shown on TV, and the wrestling felt like it was taken more seriously. I could be wrong, but the move away from Catch as sport, and the influx of costumed and masked wrestlers, led to a decline in quality. Anyone else care to chime in on this? Am I being too negative? I seem to feel this way a lot about 60s wrestling. Every time I see something from the 60s, I can't help but feel that it's not as good as the footage we have from the 50s. Was there a shift in the way wrestling was presented in the 60s, or would I feel the same if the only available footage was 60s vs. 70s? I wonder.
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You have to think some of the British workers qualify. Dynamite Kid is the best teenage worker I've seen, but I'm sure there were others.
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Who is better - Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan or Bret Hart?
ohtani's jacket replied to MoS's topic in Pro Wrestling
I'm not qualified to answer since I'm still discovering Danielson's work, but is it really a fair comparison? Bret's career has been dissected and put through the ringer for the past 25 years or more. Danielson receives very little criticism and there certainly hasn't been much blowback yet. I feel like we need a more complete take on Danielson before comparing him to past greats. (To be fair, there has been some criticism of his work in this thread. I'd like to read more.) -
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I've read most of the 80s stuff but very little from the 60s and 70s.
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Graham! Haven't seen you around here in ages. You're not wrong about BWS. I am up to issue 8 and the art is phenomenal. My mind will explode if I start getting into Argentinian comics right now. I can barely keep up with all of the stuff I'm reading at the moment.
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This was much better than the previous week's shenanigans. I swear to God, Shocker thinks he's The Rock. At least that's who I think he's modeling his tecnico act after. If you'd heading to a fight, you'd do worse than to bring Atlantis and Satanico with you. The old heads were excellent in this. I loved how Los Guerreros del Infierno made it clear that they still hate Satanico. Too often that type of thing is ignored in trios matches. Satanico was brilliant in the second fall. It was the best he'd looked in a long time. In fact, discounting the cage match, it was the best he'd looked on TV since 2000. The second fall was magic. It was one of those falls that just sing. The reaction Shocker got when the tecnicos won was the most exciting thing about this face turn thus far. I guess it was the first time to hear him get that sort of reaction from an Arena Mexico crowd. The tecnico section was pumped, and it felt like Shocker was the man of the moment. Of course there was bullshit in the third fall, but the crowd was so loud that it was passable. Borderline great match.
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This was a nice match. Not as stellar as it looked on paper, but one of the better matches from the new season. The focus here was on the beef between Wagner, Panther, and their trios partner, Black Warrior. The trio were still champions at this point, but Black Warrior had turned tecnico. Wagner and Panther bring the trios belts to the ring to remind Black Warrior where he came from. It ends with a beatdown, as you can imagine. Unfortunately, it's not a very inspired one. The match picks up when Felino and Casas lift the tempo, but I was disappointed that they didn't play off their recent heat with Black Tiger. Casas and Tiger square off in the third fall, but it comes as a pairing rather than a foil for the Wagner vs. Warrior storyline. You'd think Felino would be chomping at the bit to get his hands on Black Tiger after the stretcher job, but he pairs off with Panther instead. It's an excellent match-up, but I can't but feel that they missed a beat by not ratcheting up the Casas brothers vs. Black Tiger at the same time as introducing Wagner vs. Warrior. On the plus side, the match was shown in full, the falls were clean, and the action was great once the tecnicos made their comeback. Afterward, the old rudo fan with the cowbell did a dance in front of Casas. Negro was not impressed.
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[2002-02-24-AJPW-Excite Series] Keiji Mutoh vs Toshiaki Kawada
ohtani's jacket replied to El-P's topic in February 2002
I really like matches between these two. It doesn't matter how good the matches are. There was pretty much nothing good in Japanese men's wrestling at this point, at least these guys found a way to make their matches compelling. I usually dislike Mutoh, but his injuries forced him into a minimalist approach and I admire his commitment towards that style. His selling may be spotty, but you can't accuse him of half-arsing it, which is a worse crime than no selling. Personally, I'd much rather watch 00s Kawada work this type of minimalist style than try to recapture the glories of the past. People raved about Mutoh's matches at the time because they were starved for anything good. Then people came along and shat on the matches because they didn't live up to what had come before. If you go back and watch the matches in context, it's plain to see that they really were bright spots in a shitty time for wrestling.- 6 replies
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- Keiji Mutoh
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This was a letdown given how hot the previous weeks had been. The scene shifted from Arena Coliseo to Arena Mexico, and suddenly there was a focus on shenanigans. That type of shit was inescapable, I suppose, given the landscape of wrestling at the time, but it ruined this chapter of the feud. There were some cool spots in the segunda caida before the bullshit took over. I really hope the booking doesn't make a farce out of this feud.