Johnny Sorrow

I'd say Soaps, even though they're almost a dead genre, would fit this criteria. That's a good comparison. Lots of people still kinda apologize when admitting they watch or watched Soaps. It's stupid, like John said like what ya like. edit: Yeah Jerry, we have night time soaps that come in and out of vogue, but it's the daytime ones that have been around for decades we're talking about. And they're dying off.

See, I'd imagine that Magnum/ Tully would be on the list. along with Hogan/ Andre at Mania 3. I mean, if you're saying "matches a serious fan would know" then the most famous ones would be ones a serious fan would know.

It was just weird. I've read Dave's Tributes 2 book a bunch of times and never noticed the bit about Bock re: becoming NWA champ until the other day.

I thought that was Strongbow? It was both of them, if I recall.

Two things: 1. Anyone have any info on Dave's "Bock turning down the NWA title in 82" story? 2. Can Jerry and John just fuck already?

I don't know. THIRD BASE!

Awesome. Hey, here's a little coincidental tidbit that may factor into whatever this thread is. I was just rereading Meltzer's Tributes 2 book during dinner. While reading Hawk's obit again I noticed this. Dave was talking about how hot the AWA was in 82. So hot that Bockwinkel turned down a chance to be the NWA champion, because he felt the money was better in Minneapolis.

Wouldn't you rather be able to see it for free than have to pay for it?

I don't think Ivan is a great choice, I was just saying realistically he was RIGHT THERE and in wrestling sometimes it happens that they'll go with convenience rather than what is the best choice. You will likely not agree at all, but I think Ivan in 83 had a more realistic chance of happening than Patera in 81. If Ivan did get the title, I don't think it would have been in June but likely later. More of a 30-60-day sort of reign. Granted, that would have been a shockingly shit main event for the first Starrcade, but they could have built it up in various ways. NWA vs. old WWWF, USA vs. USSR etc. etc. Plus Nikita is around the corner. I'm not saying it's a great scenario, but if Race wasn't there I can see them looking at it as a possibility. If he hadn't been in a feud with Piper at the time, what about Greg Valentine? Later in this thread, Valentine is talked about.

But they didn't really play up Flair as an American hero in that feud. At the time Flair was playing both face and heel depending on who he was yelling at on TBS. Flair's issue with Nikita was more about Nikita attacking David Crockett then defending the Red, White, and Blue. Shit, the drunk fan who rushed the ring and tried to tackle Nikita at the Bash was more concerned about USA vs Russia then Flair was.

So Backlund decided to go with that look? That's interesting. He chose to go from this to this It always seemed like it was Vince jr. wanting to give Bob a character, ie: collegiate guy. Was Bob himself trying to tweak his look and character? I mean besides the change in physique.

We had a blast tonight bidding a fond adieu to the AWA in the 1980's. My rankings of disc 11 are 1. The Debut of the Master Blaster 2. Jerry Lawler vs. Kerry Von Erich (12/13/88) 3. Wahoo McDaniel vs. Manny Fernandez (Strap Match) (12/13/88) 4. Ken Patera & Brad Rheingans vs. Badd Company (3/25/89) 5. Bobby & Jackie Fulton vs. Destruction Crew (11/18/89) 6. Wahoo McDaniel & Tom Zenk vs. Manny Fernandez & Larry Zbyszko (2/7/89) 7. Paul Diamond vs. Pat Tanaka (11/18/89) 8. Larry Zbyszko vs. Nikita Koloff (11/18/89) BUT WAIT!!!! We never did disc one...........stay tuned.

This got me thinking. Backlund always had a look of a typical wrestler most of his reign. Normal trunks, a mop of hair on his head...but right around 83 when Vince Jr. was totally running things, he started wearing an amateur singlet and shaved his head to look like a collegiate wrestler. Was that Vince's attempt to make a "character look" or gimmick for Backlund? Oh, and the magazines sure knew Snuka was hot. It felt like every mag, especially the non Apter ones had a bloody Snuka on the cover almost monthly.

Couple of things here: "The fans in Philly turned on Bob" is something that happened far later than folks like to recall. I'd have to go back through my thread, but it always was amazing to find a later match where he was still over. It's a bit like the old joint claims: - "Backlund never was over after the Snuka feud because Snuka was more cool" "Wait... what about this Backlund-Rose match two months later where Backlund was SUPER OVER against someone who wasn't exactly a massive star in the WWF?" - "Er... what I mean is... Backlund was never over again after crying when Graham smashed his belt. That's the ticket!" "Wait... what about the Muraco feud in 1983 and the first Slaughter match after the riding crop angle? Super fucking over Backlund." - "Um... it was Philly where he died!" After pointing out Philly matches in 1983, I seem to recall that it shifted over to Boston being where he died. Hard to keep track of the bullshit after a while. Anyway... The point at which Backlund took a back seat to Snuka is hard to tell. Perhaps during the Snuka-Muraco feud. Which took place in MSG on 7/31/83, 8/27/83 and 10/17/83... while Bob had a pair of matches against the Animal and one against The Masked Superstar. They're also at the tail end of his run as champ, after having the belt for five straight years. If that's truly when Backlund ran out of steam, that's actually a credit to Backlund, not a knock. I should have said, I'm talking about 83. My pals and I weren't going to shows then, I was only 12-13. We just watched the TV. And we never thought Backlund was dead. I just recall reading later that Philly was the place where "Howdy Doody" got hot as a crowd chant. And as far as Snuka eclipsing him, yeah it was around the time he turned face against Albano and the following Muraco feud. And I'm going on how me and my pals felt as kids. I'm not speaking for fandom at large.

Hey, bro. Who's Curtis Hawkins?

Well, he was only three years older than Backlund.

Killer Tim Brooks and I not only share the same beard stylist but the philosophy of serving who pays best. Say the word and I'll sell you the National title.

I wish I could find that Garea interview. I think it was in the WWF magazine. It was really great, a total career retrospective, non kayfabe deal. The reason I believe that he might have been the choice, even if just for a moment, is based on this interview. It's not a "they fucked me out of it" or a "I got hurt and they went with Bob" bitter thing. It was him saying that at the time he had gone single from being in a team with Dean Ho I think and he was contacted that Vince Sr. was considering him, but it didn't happen. But he continued as a tag guy again and kept on winning the tag belts. The interview sticks out in my mind because when I was a kid Tony Garea was my fucking hero, and reading this made me go, "Wow, that's crazy." Now that I think of it, in the same interview he may have mentioned that Putski was considered as well. I remember digging Backlund when I was a kid. The Philly crowds started shitting on him at the Spectrum but I wasn't actually going to shows back then and wasn't aware of that until later. The deal was that before Hogan showed up we had all become Snuka fans. He was the fucking man, and Backlund sorta took a back seat even though he was the Champ.

I remember reading an interview with Tony Garea a few years back where he claimed that he was almost offered the spot, but they went with Backlund instead. If you think about it, it's not as crazy as it sounds at first. Garea was over, he was a multiple time tag champ, and he was a good looking guy who could work.

What did Meltzer write about Hennig? I think I read that bio years ago but forgot the details. I remember something like Meltzer interviewing Ken Patera, who said he'd golf with Hennig, who'd take 20 pain pills, smoke several joints, and drink a six-pack all by 12 PM. Is that what you're referring to? Not for nothin', but ditch the pain pills and that sounds like a fun day of golf.

No, it's Rollins losing a singles match witch has already happened. The point of the Shield is that as a TEAM they're unbeatable.

I loved that story. I'm loving this show. It's like listening to my Dad tell stories. Seriously, the whole story about taking a dump sounded exactly like my old man, and it's great.

I always thought they were CM Punk/Heyman henchmen and that it was going to come out when they attacked Undertaker. They were, but only when they were protecting Punk's title. It came out that they were available for hire because "justice isn't always free." Same with Brad Maddox as the bought ref. Maddox was confronting Heyman and had his cameraman secretly record the incident that revealed all of this.

You're high, Tim. Cena beat Rollins, was about to AA Ambrose when Reigns speared him and then the Shield got dq'd.

That's fucking cool.