Grimmas

These people exist? Can we have some examples, because I've not seen them.

Check out the Maple Leaf Wrestling thread, where I ran Toronto in the beginning. I thought it was some good stuff.

Remember when Valentine was a fake Russian in Toronto in late 1983, it was fucking awesome too.

Yes. e·mas·cu·late [ēˈmaskyəˌlāt] VERB make (a person, idea, or piece of legislation) weaker or less effective:

WCW Saturday Night where they would throw out any match just for the heck of it and here we get Parka and Silver King vs Villanos, just days after Villanos were ringside watching his brother murder Atlantis. A fun start with Villanos destroying Silver King as he was face in peril. Hot tag to La Parka who hit some fun moves, before Silver King and Parka both did some dives. Back in the ring and Silver King is face in peril again A woozy King goes for a double jump moonsault like an idiot and of course misses. A front roll DDT by Villano almost kills King. Parka tags himself in and hits a twisting moonsault for the win. ** 1/2

The card is set for Super Viernes at Arena Mexico on January 11, 1985. 1) Popitekus y Ringo Mendoza y Cacharo Mendoza vs Los Missioneros de la Muerte (Negro Navarro y El Texano y El Signo) 2) Alfonso Dantes y Solar y El Hijo del Santo contra El Dandy y Fuerza Guerrera y Tony Benetto 3) Gran Cochisse y Hombra Bala y Tony Salazar contra Blue Panther y Babe Face y Black Terry 4) Mexican National Middleweight Champion Atlantis contra Emilio Charles Jr. 5) Los Caudillos (Sangre Chicano y Mocha Cota y La Fiera) contra Los Infernales (El Satanico y MS-1 y Pirata Morgan)

1) Atlantis, Negro Casas & Mr. Niebla vs Dr. Wagner Jr., Villano III & Pierroth Jr. (CMLL, 1/14) **** 1/4 2) El Satanico, Ultimo Guerrero & Rey Bucanero vs Antifaz del Norte, Felino & Tarzan Boy (CMLL, 1/21) **** 3) Tarzan Boy vs Rey Bucanero (CMLL, 1/1) **** 4) Negro Casas, Atlantis & Emilio Charles Jr. vs Bestia Salvaje, Villano III & Fuerza Guerrera (CMLL, 1/28) **** 5) Olimpico, Tony Rivera & Tarzan Boy vs El Satanico, Ultimo Guerrero & Rey Bucanero (CMLL, 1/28) *** 3/4 6) Olimpico, Antifaz del Norte & Tarzan Boy vs El Satanico, Ultimo Guerrero & Rey Bucanero (CMLL, 1/14) *** 1/4 7) Atlantis, Mr. Niebla & Emilio Charles Jr. vs Dr. Wagner Jr., Shocker & Villano III (CMLL, 1/21) *** 1/4 8) Negro Casas, Lizmark & Olimpico vs Blue Panther, Bestia Salvaje & Scorpio Jr. (CMLL, 1/18) *** 9) Zumbido, Mr. Mexico & Violencia vs Solar I, Antifaz del Norte & Violencia (CMLL, 1/1) ** 3/4 10) Zumbido, Rencor Latino & Arkangel de la Muerte vs Ringo Mendoza, Tigre Blanco & Pantera (CMLL, 1/18) ** 1/2 11) Arkangel de la Muerte vs Tigre Blanco (CMLL, 1/25) ** 1/2 12) Emilio Charles Jr., Lizmark & Tinieblas Sr. vs Bestia Salvaje, Scorpio Jr. & Shocker (CMLL, 1/11) ** Now it's time to watch whatever else I can before everyone else finishes January.

Fuerza Guerrera against Negro Casas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think Villano III paid off fans for their seats, so his brothers could set front row! Take that Ted DiBiase. First fall is quick, highlighted by Atlantis and Villano III doing an awesome exchange ending with a vicious Atlantis tope. Then we get the dream between Casas and Fuerza which does not disappoint, before the tecnicos quickly wrap up the fall. Falls ending does not stop Villano III and Atlantis as they brawl all around ringside. With Atlantis ripping up the mask in revenge from the previous match and even beating up Villano III right in front of his brothers.Atlantis tries to freaking rip the seat off a chair to use to kill Villano III. This feud is the best. Casas' reaction to Salvaje coming at him was priceless. Salvaje gets one shot before Casas loses it on him, although the rudos use their numbers to tie up the match. Casas is a house of fire in the third fall. I truly think Casas would had been the best hot tag wrestler in southern wrestling he was so great here. Atlantis clears house and goes for a tope, but the Villanos brothers jump up and stop him and drag him outside the ring to kick his ass. An old lady tries to get the referees attention to get him to turn around to see the cheating, but he ignores her. Camel Clutch by Villano III seems to get him the win over Atlantis, however some dude in a suit lectures the referee. The referee ignores the lecture and raises the rudos hands! I loved this, but it was pretty short. Maybe *** 3/4.. maybe ****.

We start backstage with Satanico teaching his Infernales the history of CMLL. The tecnicos show up and Satanico insults them,until they attack and leave the tecnicos laying. Weird little skit. During the Infernales entrance Tarzan Boy jumps Satanico and he gets beat up until Rivera and Olimpico show up to even the match up. The rudos are just so bad ass here, holding Tarzan Boy for Satanico to get free shots in. Then when they toss him, they kick the other's asses too. Including picking up Olimpico and dumping him head first onto a char in the attendance. In the ring Los Infernales use rope to tie up Tarzan Boy so Satanico can beat the shit out of him, until they get DQ'ed to end the fall. To recap, Rivera and Olimpico are a mess on the floor with steel chairs all over them and Tarzan Boy just got beat up so badly the referee DQ'ed Los Infernales. It was short, but what a bad ass first fall. Between falls the rudos continue to kick ass, but a commercial break happens and Olimpico is in control now and Satanico is slyly walking down the ramp with a bottle which he breaks over Tarzan Boy's head The referees have no idea why Tarzan Boy is dead, and the crowd is super pissed! HEAT!! The referees just stop things before someone dies. Los Infernales rile the crowd up before cutting a promo. As for a rating, this was short and maybe more of an angle? What we got was just really awesome though, so I'll go *** 3/4 for the whole thing.

That's what I thought, but he explained it's six stars and he's given a few other matches six stars, maybe like one every 15 years. It's odd, why not just give less matches five stars, so the five stars ones are special?

Bucks aren't old enough. They started wrestling in 2004 though.. that's 13 years in the business, over ten. So they should be eligible?

I subscribe to this train of thought more than anyone else's. I have a 1/4 when I rate things, but to each their own. The big thing with me is that there's a huge difference between ****1/2 and ****3/4. In modern wrestling, ****1/2 is tremendous, it's captivating, it rocks - but there's a strong chance that I won't even consider a ****1/2 for my top 10 at the end of the year. There's a huge difference in quality between the two, more so than ***1/2 to ***3/4 or even ****3/4 to *****. For my top ten matches, I have to dive into my **** 1/2s for about the last 5 spots, usually.

I'm on board with the lucha stuff, at a minimum. I will watch other stuff as time permits. Very excited for this, as Villano III vs Atlantis is the first lucha show I watched and I loved the entire card, adding context makes me happy. Then in 2005 (or 6) CMLL aired on Quebec Television and I watched weekly and it ruled, so very much looking forward to getting into that. Plus all the gaps!!

What does everybody think of the occasional six star? I think it means you have over used 5 stars, so they are not as meaningful as they should be.

I generally don't think about a rating until the match is over.. it's rare when I do.

Yeah, just like a history of wrestling from July 1983 forward. Once it's done, it can easily just be updated as things change. For example, I wasn't paying attention after Maple Leaf Wrestling went from just Toronto to running New York to over expanding and closing doors. What happened after? Lots of stories like that to fill out. Plus a list of big tournaments, the NWA World Title history, etc...

This match was fine, but nothing terribly gripping. The spots were good, especially some nice looking power bombs, but it was just a generic average match. It's hard after watching so many heated feuds to watch a competitive none hate match, however it was solid enough and nothing I didn't like seeing. ** 1/2

I'm with Matt D, a yearly Match HOF is so much better than a GME poll. I know Chad has talked about match HOF too, but if he's too busy with PWO2K, then I'd be willing to spear head the HOF with some help.

Expand on this? The draft was June 1983. Since then, this promotion closed, this opened, first closed circuit show, first starrcade, title histories, etc....

Surprised Young Bucks are not on the ballot yet. Is Kenny Omega in 2019 a first ballot guy?

Can someone write up a history piece? Main Champs promotions closing, etc??

Jobbers or winners from Mexico?

Yeah that was a small part of the story. AJ claims that's how Cena got this one after he's been gone after losing so many times.

After the second match he told Cena he shouldn't show his face around again, and Cena was gone for a long while.