Grimmas

Saving Sid over Bret Hart seems insane to me....

Perfect saves. Making list now, but if someone worked regularly in USA and Japan then they will be on the both list. We can discuss some individuals once I post the list if there is questionable choices.

Injured, returns to in ring in November. Will be up in the draft, but injured from in ring till November. EDIT: What Scarleft-Left said. So, He's in ECW then? Hadn't debuted there yet, just left WCW due to being fired due to injury. Doesn't show up in ECW till October.

Some have easier choices than others (mine was simple). The draft should be fascinating to see what people focus on.. Also to see where Hogan ends up (AJPW, NJPW, WCW, or WWF) or goes undrafted and just appears on big shows as a special attraction.

Injured, returns to in ring in November. Will be up in the draft, but injured from in ring till November. EDIT: What Scarleft-Left said.

Three for you Boon. 4 is only for AJPW, NJPW, WCW, and WWF. 3 for everybody else.

By the way, FMW saves Hayabusa, Masato Tanaka, and The Gladiator!

Quick people announce saves, quicker I can make draft list and the quicker we can draft. Which gives people more time to plan before September.

Remember Giant Baba is still your boss!

Kind of makes sense to me, I'm good with that if others are. I just think it follows your tiered system and with bigger companies, it is more likely to have four people stay around to keep foundations. My other question was... do I automatically save champions or do they have to count towards my 4? Champions are not automatic saves, just listed so people know what the promotion looked like at the time. You can save your champions and keep them going forward, or you can save none of them and have all vacant titles up to you. Although with AJPW, you would most likely save Misawa, Kobashi, Kawada and then either Akiyama and Taue. The only people you automatically keep are the owners and non-wrestlers listed first.

Kind of makes sense to me, I'm good with that if others are.

Draft could start Thursday? If i can get things done in time, so get in your saves. If anybody else wants to join (lots of Japan promotions from WAR, UWFI, WING, BJW, AJW, JWP, etc... are open). Let me know I will post their rosters.

Here is a list of rosters with their owners, non-wrestlers and champions for people to make their list of people you are keeping that are exempt from the draft. I think we are going with three talents, unless we feel that number is wrong. Owners and non-wrestlers are kept with the promotion, while everybody else will be put into the draft, if they are not saved. Look at the rules for other info. Please point out an errors I might had made on this. World Wrestling Federation Owner: Vince McMahon Non-Wrestlers: Jim Ross, Dox Hendrix (Michael Hayes), Gorilla Monsoon, & Todd Pettengill WWF World Champion: Diesel WWF IC Champion: Shawn Michaels WWF World Tag Team Champions: Owen Hart & Yokozuna WWF Women's Champion: Bertha Faye Bret Hart The Undertaker Lex Luger Psycho Sid Razor Ramon Davey Boy Smith Jean Pierre Lafitte (Carl Ouelette) Dean Douglas 1-2-3 Kid Isaac Yankem DDS (Kane) Savio Vega Gooldust Bam Bam Bigelow Henry Godwinn Hakushi Bob Holly Waylon Mercy (Danny Spivey) Man Mountain Rock (Maxx Payne) Skip (Chris Candido) Kama (Godfather) King Kong Bundy Fatu Barry Horowitz Rad Radford (Louie Spicolli) Brooklyn Brawler Aldo Montoya (Justin Credible) Duke Droese Bob Backlund Marty Jannetty Hunter Hearst Helmsley Doink the Clown (Ray Apollo) Jacob & Eli Blu Smoking Gunns (Billy & Bart) Men on a Mission (King Mabel & Sir Mo) Alundra Blayze (Madusa) Paul Bearer Mr. Fuji Ted DiBiase Sunny World Championship Wrestling Owner: Ted Turner Non-Wrestlers: Eric Bischoff, Bobby Heenan, Steve McMichael, Gene Okerlund, Tony Schiavone, & Dusty Rhodes WCW World Champion: Hulk Hogan WCW United States Champion: Sting WCW World Tag Team Champions: Dick Slater & Bunkhouse Buck WCW Television Champion: The Renegade Ric Flair Randy Savage Arn Anderson Big Bubba Rogers The Giant (Big Show) Johnny B. Badd VK Wallstreet (Mike Rotunda) Brian Pillman Meng Paul Orndorff Cobra (Jeff Farmer) Sgt. Craig Pittman Alex Wright Diamond Dallas Page Jim Duggan Dean Malenko Eddie Guerrero Shark (John Tenta) Kevin Sullivan Kamala Scott Armstrong Dave Sullivan Mark Starr Disco Inferno Zoadiak (Brutus Beefcake) Joey Maggs Chris Kanyon Ice Train Nasty Boys (Jerry Saggs & Brian Knobbs) Harlem Heat (Booker T & Stevie Ray) American Males (Marcus Bagwell & Scotty Riggs) Blue Bloods (Steven Regal & Bobby Eaton) Barrio Brothers (Fidel Sierra & Ricky Santana) State Patrol (Sgt. Buddy Lee Parker & Lt. James Earl Wright) Jimmy Hart Sister Sherri Col. Robert Parker Maxx Muscle Kimberly All Japan Pro-Wrestling Owner: Giant Baba AJPW Triple Crown Champion: Mitsuharu Misawa AJPW Double Tag Team Champions: Toshiaki Kawada & Akira Taue AJPW Junior Heavyweight Champion: Dan Kroffat AJPW All-Asia Tag Team Champions: Jun Akiyama & Takao Omori Abdullah the Butcher Masa Fuchi Stan Hansen Kenta Kobashi The Patriot The Eagle (Jackie Fulton) Lacrosse (Jim Steele) Doug Furnas Giant Kimala II Tamon Honda Richard Slinger Johnny Ace Yoshinori Ogawa Jumbo Tsuruta Joel Deaton Mitsuo Momota Ryukaku Izumida Haruka Eigan Mighty Inoue Bobby Duncum Jr. Kentaro Shiga Masao Inoue Satoru Asako Tsuyoshi Kikuchi Maunkea Mossman The Fantastics (Tommy Rogers & Bobby Fulton) New Japan Pro-Wrestling Owner: Antonio Inoki IWGP Heavyweight Champion: Keiji Mutoh IWGP Tag Team Champions: Junji Hirata & Shinya Hashimoto IWGP Junior Heavyweight Champion: Koji Kanemoto Riki Choshu Tadao Yasuda Masahiro Chono Kuniaki Kobayashi Shiro Koshinaka Hiroyoshi Tenzan Scott Norton Akira Nogami Takashi Iizuka Michiyoshi Ohara Tatsutoshi Goto Hiroshi Hase Hiro Saito Kengo Kimura Isamu Teranishi Yoshiaki Yatsu Akitoshi Saito Osamu Kido Yuji Nagata Jushin Liger Wild Pegasus Sabu Norio Honaga El Samurai Black Cat Shinjiro Ohtani Tatsuhito Takaiwa Gran Hamada Tokimitsu Ishizawa (Kendo Kashin) Hell Raisers (Hawk Warrior (Road Warrior Hawk) & Power Warrior (Kensuke Sasaki) Extreme Championship Wrestling Owner: Paul Heyman Non-Wrestlers: Joey Styles, Tod Gordon ECW World Champion: The Sandman ECW World Tag Team Champions: Raven & Stevie Richards ECW Television Champion: 2 Cold Scorpio Cactus Jack 911 Tommy Dreamer Hacy Myers JT Smith Ian Rotten Taz Bull Pain Dances with Dudley Big Dick dudley Dudley Dudley Mikey Whipwreck Tony Stetson Chad Austin Don E. Allen Rey Mysterio Jr. Psychosis Gangstas (New Jack & Mustpha Saed) Public Enemy (Rocco Rock & Johnny Grunge) Steiner Brothers (Rick & Scott) Pitbulls (I & II) Eliminators (Perry Saturn & John Kronus) Jason Bill Alphonso Sign Guy Dudley Francine Beulah McGillicutty Frontier Martial-Arts Wrestling Owner: Shoichi Arai FMW World Brass Knuckles Heavyweight Champion: Hayabusa FMW Brass Knuckels Tag Team Champions: Lethal Weapon (Ricky Fuji & Hisakatsu Oya) Independent World Junior Heavyweight Champion: Vacant FMW Women's Champion: Megumi Kudo Mitsuhiro Matsunaga W*ING Kanemura Mr. Pogo the Gladiator (Mike Awesome) Super Leather Hido Horace Boulder Masato Tanaka Koji Nakagawa Hideki Hosaka Katsutoshi Niiyama Gosaku Goshogawara Tetsuhiro Kuroda Mach Hayato Shark Tsuchiya Bad Nurse Nakamura Miwa Saito Combat Toyoda Yukari Ishikura Yukie Nabeno Kaori Nakayama Smoky Mountain Wrestling Owner: Jim Cornette Non-Wrestlers: SMW Heavyweight Champion: Brad Armstrong SMW Tag Team Champions: Heavenly Bodies (Jimmy Del Ray & Tom Pritchard) Tommy Rich Buddy Landel Dirty White Boy Robert Gibson The Punisher (Bull Buchahan) Bobby Blaze Chris Michaels Boo Bradley (Balls Mahoney) Tracy Smothers Al Snow Brian Lee Flash Flanagan D-Lo Brown Headbangers (Mosh & Thrasher) Ron Wright Bob Armstrong United States Wrestling Association Owner: Jerry Jarrett Non-Wrestler: Cory Macklin USWA Unified World Heavyweight Champion: Jerry Lawler USWA Southern Heavyweight Champion: Billy Jack Haynes USWA World Tag Team Champions: PG-13 (JC Ice & Wolfie D) USWA Women's Champion: Miss Texas (Jacqueline) Bill Dundee Jesse James Armstrong Axl Rotten Doug Gilbert Terry Gordy King Cobra Spellbindger Gorgeous George III Pat Tanaka Steven Dunn The Gambler Steve Doll Tekno Team 2000 (Travis (Chad Fortune) & Troy (Erik Watts)) Brandon Baxter East Coast Wrestling Association Owner: Jim Kettner ECWA Heavyweight Champion: Lance Diamond (Simon Diamond) ECWA Tag Team Champions: Hollywood Hunks (Custom Made Man & Stunning Sean) ECWA Mid-Atlantic Champion: ??? Devon Storm Cheetah Master Ace Darling Kid Flash (Billy Kidman) Steve Corino Inferno Kid Glenn Osbourne Mr. Ooh La La Boogie Woogie Brown Johnny Blaze Bobby Piper The Bushwhackers (Luke & Butch) Revolution Pro Wrestling Owner: Ron Rivera Michinoku Pro-Wrestling Owner: Great Sasuke Jerry Lynn Gran Naniwa Super Delfin Dos Caras Hanzo Nakajima Wellington Wilkins Jr. Yone Genjin The Convict Masato Yakushiji Taka Michinoku Naohiro Hoshikawa Kato Kung Lee Tiger Mask IV Naohiro Hoshikawa Kendo Mascara Magica

How much of these guys have you seen outside of the Cruiserweight Classic? That is a pretty bold statement that just isn't true and I love both guys.

That would be cool, all the small promotions that run a show a month are easy to put together.

Updated! WWF: I Broke Bruno's Neck (Vince McMahon) WCW: Scarlet-Left (Ted Turner) ECW: topropepodcast (Paul Heyman) USWA: kevinmcfl (Jerry Lawler) SMW: Wahoos Leg (Jim Cornette) ECWA: Boon (Jim Kettner) NJPW: SirEdger (Antonio Inoki) AJPW: lowblowpodast (Giant Baba) FMW: Grimmas (Atsushi Onita) M-Pro: gordi (Great Sasuki)

That would be great! Really any indie around during that time is cool, IWA-MS, ECWA, APW or whatever. Even if they didn't debut till later like PWG that is all good. ECWA is northeast right? I'll do them.. Yep, also gives you the yearly Super 8 tournament, which was a big annual one night deal. Actually a decent roster to protect guys form too: Lance Diamond (Simon Diamond) Ace Darling Kid Flash (Billy Kidman) Steve Corino Cheetah Master Devon Storm Plus.......... The Bushwhackers!

That would be great! Really any indie around during that time is cool, IWA-MS, ECWA, APW or whatever. Even if they didn't debut till later like PWG that is all good.

To clarify, we are looking at this currently? WWF: I Broke Bruno's Neck (Vince McMahon) WCW: Scarlet-Left (Ted Turner) ECW: topropepodcast (Paul Heyman) USWA: kevinmcfl (Jerry Lawler) SMW: Wahoos Leg (Jim Cornette) NJPW: SirEdger (Antonio Inoki) AJPW: lowblowpodast (Giant Baba) FMW: Grimmas (Atsushi Onita) M-Pro: gordi (Great Sasuki) Would love another Japan at least, but this is a good enough starting point. Anybody want to make a ruling on the joshi wrestlers? FMW uses joshi wrestlers, but there is no current joshi promotions open. I assume, me having a division of the best six joshi wrestlers would be unfare? Not sure.. Open to suggestions? Maybe keep AJW as a ghost promotion that nobody can touch?

I can put together the rosters this weekend and we can start drafting next week. That will give us about a week if anybody else wants to join up. If not, free agents will be huge for any indie to start up.

No stealing in Japan. Togo is safe.

Amount excempt from draft can be discussed. Injured wrestlers are not stolen. That stealing rule is to avoid big companies from hoarding wrestlers they aren't using.

Rules - The Initial Draft Here is my ideas for rules. I am completely up for modifying and improving them, but this can set a basis. Start Date: September 1, 1995 (September 1, 2016) Following the 1995 calendar, but post on the 2016 calendar. Pre-Draft: 1) You keep the owner and the announcers and other equivalent staff. 2) You get to keep three pieces of talent from the 1995 roster (rosters posted later).=' Tiers: 1) Promotions will be treated in blocks, by tiers Tier A: WWF, WCW, AJPW, NJPW Tier B: ECW, FMW Tier C: SMW, USWA, M-Pro The Draft: 1) Round #1 will start with a randomized list of the Tier A promotions, followed by Tier B and Tier C. After round 1, each even number round will be randomized for all promotions and the odd rounds will be snaked from the previous round. 2) There will be three lists of talent to pick from: The USA list, the Japan list, and the Other list. If you are a USA promotion you can select from the USA or Other list, while if you are a Japan promotion, then you can pick from the Japan and Other list. 3) You only draft 5 talent that was not born in the country of the promotion you control. 4) Roster Size (Includes anyone draft-able ie managers) Tier A: 22-44 Tier B: 18-28 Tier C: 16-26 (Options to have larger rosters is available for indies big shows and Japan touring companies) 5) Once a pick is made, the person on the clock has 10 hours to pick. if they miss their 10 hours then the next person can pick and the person who missed their pick can insert their pick ASAP. 6) If you pick a tag team you forfeit your next pick. Although, feel free to pick only one member of a tag team. 7) Only Tier A promotions can select wrestlers with stars next to their name. (example Hogan is not going to M-Pro. The Talent and Booking: 1) Keep in mind who your owner is when booking (ie if Giant Baba is your owner, there is no run ins and all clean finishes) 2) Book the amount of shows that you want. If you are a promotion that runs TV, then one show a week is all you need. If you are a smaller indie you can run only a show a month if you want. 3) Try to post shows on the day they occur. Obviously life happens, but it's better to just say "Raw ran this date, nothing of note happened) then to fall weeks and months behind. 4) You can fire anyone and hire anyone from the free agent list at any time. 5) If you are a touring company, you can add 5 free agents for your tour that no one else can use or get them loaned to you from other companies. 6) If you are a Tier B or C promotion, you can add up to 4 free agents for a mega show as long as they aren't booked out on tours. 7) Every few months there will be a rookie draft where only Tier C promotions can participate in. Stealing Talent: 1) Since it's the Monday Night Wars, the US promotions will have a stealing system. If a wrestler is not used on TV or PPV for an entire month by a Tier A promotion, then the other Tier A promotion can steal that talent. If that wrestler is not used again for another week the Tier B promotion can steal them. 2) Every month the Tier A & B promotions will rotate through one attempt to steal a talent (ie WCW one month, WWF next, and ECW the one after, followed by WCW again). The player can pick one talent from an equal sized or lower tiered promotion to steal. A die will determine if they are successful or not. If the talent you want to steal is on the same tier and is top 6 for that company, then the player selects one number between 1 and 12. Two dice are rolled if that number comes up, they get the talent. If the talent you want to steal any other talent then the player selects one number between 1 and 6. A die is rolled if that number comes up, they get the talent. Just some ideas I had, let me know what you think.

Based on what? Again, watch the TV. Russo got a bigger part in creative right around March '97 if I'm not mistaken. The TV from '97 is light years ahead of where it was a year prior. Val Venis got over solely BECAUSE of his gimmick. No argument there. But that's not the point I'm making. Based on what? Based on the fact he was losing and tried something by going with Russo. If Russo wasn't around he would had tried something different. Val was over in Mexico and Puerto Rico with being a porn star. It seems like a pretty big leap to say that WWF would have gotten better without doing what they actually did just because you think Vince would have "tried something". Plenty of guys have gotten over in Mexico but fallen on their face in the States. Are you really putting forth the argument that the reason Sean Morley was over wasn't because of the Val Venis character? I'm not comfortable that I'm coming off as a "Russo defender" here, but come on. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. So with Austin and The Rock the WWF would had still failed without Russo. You believe that? Morley got over in the porn character, I'm not going to pretend he couldn't had got over in other characters as well. He was over because he was pushed.

Based on what? Again, watch the TV. Russo got a bigger part in creative right around March '97 if I'm not mistaken. The TV from '97 is light years ahead of where it was a year prior. Val Venis got over solely BECAUSE of his gimmick. No argument there. But that's not the point I'm making. Based on what? Based on the fact he was losing and tried something by going with Russo. If Russo wasn't around he would had tried something different. Val was over in Mexico and Puerto Rico with being a porn star.