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Tenryu in the business shirt is amazing. This was a great out of control brawl that felt contained because Tenryu was essentially KOTM and the focal point for the entire match. Everything from the crowd around the ring to the facials and blood made this a gory spectacle that was great to watch. ****

Sasaki was a beast with those lariats. This was a fun match with high octane action from the clips we saw. Good upset to boot.

Dundee has some nice words for Golden telling him that his daddy is a retard in a wheelchair. I still hate anything KAW.

Peggy gave sincere reasoning and has the crowd supporting him. Hales for his part does have some good points and tries to point to the business side of things. Rich comes out all fired up and gets a good Wild Fire chant for his beatdown. Bruno takes a fun bump off a punch. Peggy finally convinces Rich to flee before they get arrested. I am still enjoying this series a lot.

Was Vince saying Conan could only be a manager a dig at Leno? Vince seemed fun and laid back and this was another example of just how mainstream the WWF was at this point.

Good tv match given time to develop and showing what these two can do. Eddie is able to win over the crowd and play up to that role a bit without being too over the top and slap happy babyface. His leg work was good and Psicosis sold it like a champ. Finish was brutal and it was refreshing to not see Larry shit all over the cruiser weights for once. A hidden tv gem from 1999. ***

I know one person...cue Dylan's music Fujinami is someone I wrestle with in this project. I have seen the heralded 1980's stuff and think he is really great in it. His 1979-1980 stuff especially he really mixed it up well with a variety of guys including Dynamite Kid, Ron Star, and Steve Kiern. Once he jumps to heavyweight, he has the Choshu series and a bevy of other great stuff throughout the decade vs. UWF guys, Vader, etc. The big knock on him will come in his 1990's output. He has had some good stuff in there but obviously isn't what he used to be and to compare to someone like Misawa's NOAH run, I think Misawa's NOAH run has much more quality output. Considering all of that, when looking at the top matches, I prefer Jumbo and think Jumbo does also have consistency on his side. 1980-1989 may be close for some but Jumbo's 1990-1993 blows Fujinami out of the water. For me I see Jumbo as a top 5 candidate and Fujinami as a top 15. Tenryu is a much tougher case. Parv genuinely didn't like Tenryu until 1987 or so when he went out on his own. I enjoyed Tenryu before then and can point to the Ted 1983 match, the Choshu singles (better than Jumbo singles vs. Choshu IMO) and the tag matches teaming with Jumbo where I thought Tenryu held his own. Beyond his AJPW split, you then have the absolute mountain of Tenryu stuff from a variety of different eras and performers in Japan. Whether it was having very good matches with Takano, being an absolute beast in the WAR vs. NJ feud or being a grumpy prick in NOAH, Tenryu really runs the gambit and has 20+ years of great matches you can point to. I don't think this is quite as impressive as you might think on the surface. Misawa's match vs. Jumbo in 88 is **** and 1/4/09 from the Dome is **** for me for instance, but it does count for something.

Entertainment is subjective was all that I was trying to accomplish. I was entertained watching the Carnival 94 final night 6 man that Misawa was in. It was a *BETTER* match than the Hansen vs. Funk lake match from 1990. Still, that lake spot is infinitely more memorable than anything in the previous 6 man so I think at points the notion is to say that Funk/Hansen/Flair whoever gets the nod as a worker. I think from an entertainment standpoint from the traditional aesthetics that you usually view that stuff by, Misawa fares worse off than any of your other top tier candidates with the exception of maybe Jumbo and Santo. I agree that great match theory shouldn't be the only parameter, but I do also see merit in comparing apples to apples in great matches among like individuals. When i get to the top 10-15 of my list (Funk will be in here, Hansen could be my #2 honestly), that seems like a way for me to really seperate the minutia effectively. "Being able to make the best out of the worst situation matters. Wrestling the right kind of match matters." This on the surface is an interesting debate to really saturate. Especially the first part. It is tough to say that Misawa had that many "bad" situations given that he was in there with other super workers for most of his career and presented as the ace. Still, think about how many others that failed when pushed to the top at that level. Jumbo giving him the nod was a great and selfless thing in that moment, but Jumbo got the lion share of victories in the aftermath and Misawa still prevailed in the wake of the Jumbo era as the ace of the promotion to carry it forward. In addition, in both Kawada matches were Misawa broke his orbital bone and Kawada hurt his forearm, they both push forward and had a great match as a result. Wrestling the right kind of match is also another debate that could evoke all sorts of things such as Misawa doing too many headdrops or not passing the torch effectively to someone else.

I enjoyed those Murdoch matches a good deal and they finished in the middle of my All Japan ballot which still put them at **** a piece. Still think stuff like 9/93 vs. Williams and 3/92 vs. Hansen isn't too far off from them from a Misawa match perspective.

Parv's rankings with my comments and point of comparison for Misawa ***** Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Ric Flair (6/8/83) (****3/4 for me, comparable to vs. Akiyama 2/27/00) Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu Yoshiaki Yatsu (1/28/86) (***** for me, not as good as 6/9/95, 12/6/96) Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (2/5/87) (****1/2, not as good as 12/3/93, 5/21/94) Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (6/5/89) (***** and one of the best matches of all time, still slightly not as good as 6/3/94 and 1/20/97 in my opinion) Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (09/01/90) (agree on ranking, Jumbo is MVP of match) Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi (04/20/91) (****3/4 for me, both guys are incredible in this match) ****3/4 Giant Baba and Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Dory Funk Jr. and Terry Funk (03/13/75) (****1/2 for me, behind something like Ogawa/Misawa vs. Burning from 3/6/99) Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Kerry Von Erich (2/3 Falls) (5/22/84) (missed this match when I did post above and it is a good case for Jumbo. KVE best match) Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (10/28/88) (****1/2 for me, on par with 7/24/95 vs. Kawada, not as good as 10/98 or 3/03 or 10/97 Misawa vs. Kobashi matches IMO) Jumbo Tsuruta & Kenta Kobashi vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Stan Hansen (7/15/89) (Really nifty match here, Misawa has some tags that are around the same level IMO including the late 92 Baba tag) Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Mitsuharu Misawa (06/08/90) (****1/2 for me, monumental moment) Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada (09/30/90) (****3/4 for me, both guys are really damn good in the match) Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi (05/22/92) (need to rewatch this one again) ****1/2 Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Harley Race (6/11/77) - I need to see this match Giant Baba and Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Dory Funk Jr. and Terry Funk (12/15/78) - Judging by your rankings it seems as though Baba/Jumbo vs. Funks is the equivalent of where I would put the Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue series, I will just say that I prefer the Misawa series slightly Giant Baba & Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Terry & Dory Funk Jr. (11/30/79) Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (2/5/86) - Agree on rating, Not as good as 6/1/93 Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Stan Hansen (10/21/86) - Went around ****1/4, again lateral to Misawa vs. Hansen on 5/21/93 Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (10/28/88) Jumbo Tsuruta, Kabuki & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Kenta Kobashi & Akira Taue (05/26/90) - Probably ****1/4 for me Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada (11/29/91) - Great, great match. Both guys shine here to me too Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue vs. Steve Williams & Terry Gordy (10/07/92) - Jumbos last hurrah. I actually compare this laterally to the MVC vs. Misawa/Kawada 1/93 match that I know you weren't as keen on. Still, I would need to rewatch again but this doesn't feel miles ahead of the 1/4/09 Misawa tag to me and Misawa was great in that match. **** Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Jack Brisco (01/30/74) - Need to watch Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Dory Funk Jr. (12/18/75) - Need to watch Still, these being **** matches isn't bad but with Misawa you still have the 3/4/95 tag, the Morishima 2006 match, the Takayama 2001 match that should grade comparatively Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Dick Slater (5/1/80) I have this higher on my ranking and as notated above, see it on the level of the match vs. Doc from 7/1994 Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Ric Flair (6/8/82) Same ranking as you, below Carny final 95 and 9/95 Taue matches Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Nick Bockwinkel (2/23/84) Same rating as me. I had 5/2/99 Misawa vs. Vader at same ranking too as it is a great slugfest match. Genichiro Tenryu & Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Killer Khan & Riki Choshu (8/2/85) Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Stan Hansen & Ted Dibiase (8/31/85) Jumbo Tsuruta & Genichiro Tenryu vs. Riki Choshu & Yoshiaki Yatsu (11/30/85) Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Toshiaki Kawada (2/26/89) Rankings are close to yours but again Misawa had the 7/94 and 12/94 tags vs. Ace/Doc. The fuchi/Kawada vs. Misawa/Kobashi 1/94 tag, the 4/25/04 Ogawa/Misawa vs. KentaFuji tag, the 10/99 Burning vs. Misawa/Ogawa rematch tag, 12/07 Kobashi comeback tag all that I would rank above most of these. Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Genichiro Tenryu (8/31/87) Wow, you are a bit lower on this than me. I do have this, 6/5/89, and the 10/88 as the best of the Tenryu vs. Jumbo series. I just think Kawada vs. Misawa matches up to that and IMO Kobashi vs. Misawa eclipses that. Jumbo Tsuruta & Yoshiaki Yatsu vs. Genichiro Tenryu & Ashura Hara (9/15/88) Yoshiaki Yatsu & Jumbo Tsuruta vs Toshiaki Kawada & Genichiro Tenryu (1/22/89) See tag ranking list above Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi (10/19/90) Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Kenta Kobashi (04/20/91) Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (10/15/91) Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Toshiaki Kawada (09/04/91) Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (10/15/91) Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue vs. Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (06/05/92) Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Yoshinari Ogawa vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, Toshiaki Kawada & Tsuyoshi Kikuchi (08/20/92) All involve both men and at different points within the matches, I prefer Misawa (9/4/91, 6/5/92) and other times I think Jumbo is the MVP (10/19/90, 10/15/91) So going through that exhaustive list, Jumbo was great but I still think for me where Jumbo has a top tier candidate, Misawa answers. Jumbo vs. Tenryu 6/5/89 is a better match than almost anyone in existence has ever had. That said, I prefer FOUR Misawa matches to it. Jumbo will more than likely be in my top 5, at worst top 7, but for me Misawa is king.

Came in to say Joe vs. Butcher. I would say the rest of my list would be IWA-MS heavy but I hope to be plowing through some Chikara and PWG in the next few weeks.

So Parv gave it away but I have Misawa here but it is very close and I don't begrudge anyone saying Jumbo at all. I think the main thing for me is that when thinking about great Jumbo opponents, you have the Tenryu series but then what is #2? Flair, Martel, Choshu(disappointing singles), Hansen (somewhat disappointing in that most matches are around ***1/2 instead of ****+ for two GOAT contenders), Misawa? I really don't know what would be my #2 choice for Jumbo as an opponent. Beyond that, I don't think there is any way it could eclipse the Kobashi series vs. Misawa which is firmly #2 for most individuals. I have just trekked through all of the major matches of that feud and here is the star ratings for them all: 10/25/95: **** 3/31/96: **** 1/20/97: ***** (Greatest Match of all time for me right now) Carnival 97: ***3/4 10/97: ****3/4 10/31/98: ***** (MOTY for 1998) 6/99: ****1/2 (still the toughest match for me to rank in the entire 90's, don't really disagree with some that hate this match but it did a lot right for me so I awarded accordingly) 3/03: ***** (certainly EPIC in its nature but it does it better than any other match of that type and does feel really like a torch passing moment that you really rarely see in wrestling) That is a nasty stretch of matches and even if you think my ratings are inflated for the back half of the series (Dawho5 doesn't like 10/31/98 for example), I think there is plenty of quality stuff there. I don't want to leave Kawada out in the cold as the series vs. him also presents some great stuff: 10/92: ****1/4 (due for a rewatch from me) 7/93: **** (ditto to the above and coming up on my 93 watches) Carnival 94: ***3/4 6/94: ***** (top 10 match of all time) Carnival 95: **** 7/95: ****1/2 Carnival 97: ****1/4 6/97: ***1/2 (disappointing and something clearly off) Carnival 98: **** 5/1/98: ****1/2 (overrated by me but I match I have always been higher on than most) 1/99: ****1/2 (This has gotten a rep bump over the years) 7/99: ***1/2 (Due for a rewatch too and coming up) 7/05: **** Only one stinker here which is not bad at all. But Jumbo had great tag matches. Yes he did have the series vs. Choshu and army. However, Misawa has and is the integral piece of the Kobashi/Misawa vs. Kawada/Taue series. My ranking for those? 6/93: ****3/4, really great match that Parv just loved when him and Steven watched it 12/93: *****, more of a Kawada match but Misawa is great in it 5/21/94: *****, my #3 MOTY for 1994 and an awesome match RWTL 1994: **** 1/95: **** (due for rewatch) 6/9/95: ***** (Probably my #2 match of all time right now) 10/95: ****1/4 (also due for rewatch) RWTL Final 95: **** That also speaks for itself and beats any Choshu tag feud IMO. Misawa doesn't stop there and also has the Misawa/Akiyama vs. Kawada/Taue feud which again encompasses 4-5 matches equaling or bettering the **** range. The 12/6/96 match is yet again another contender for a top 10 match of all time. Jumbo/Misawa both could be considered disappointing vs. Hansen and I don't know which of the three is to blame for that 10/86 and 5/93 feel like a tie as far as match quality as the best match vs. Hansen. The other stuff surrounding the series probably has Jumbo a nose ahead. Grumpy Jumbo is super but Misawa was waiting in the wings and played his role really well too. This is a nod to Jumbo but it isn't like in their series Misawa was chopped liver. Still that is another ****1/2 (6/8/90), ***** (9/1/90) and ****1/4 (4/91) to put on their resume and the 1988 match was super fun too. Other opponents for Jumbo include Flair, Martel, Funk, Kawada, Race, Mascaras, Slater. Other opponents for Misawa include Akiyama, Taue, Doc, Morishima, Takayama, Kobayshi The Flair series vs. Jumbo produced three ****+ and a ****3/4 classic in 1983. Surprisingly though, Misawa vs. AKiyama equaled the **** matches (1/98, Carny final 98, 2/27/00) and the 2/27/00 is also a ****3/4 maybe ***** affair in my book. The 1976 Funk match vs. Jumbo is superb. Misawa vs. Taue is an interesting feud but the Carny 95 final is ***** and that is littered around 3-4 other **** matches they have had throughout their career. Slater 80 Carny final is super, but better than 7/94 Misawa vs. Doc? They are equal at best for me. The other opponents all produced a share of very good to great matches that can help pad a resume. The cluster argument can go against Jumbo too. Parv/Will seem decidedly on board with the Jumbo is better than Tenryu argument. I tend to agree, but don't see it as unusual if someone prefers Tenryu. Kind of comparatively, I find Misawa a step above Kawada (who is still amazing). Kobashi is tougher to judge but my point is that all of these 5 guys will more than likely be in my top 12 when the list is all said and done. We are talking the cream of the crop with all time workers. Having them work against each other could be seen as an advantage but I don't think you are going to build a GOAT candidate around both Misawa/Jumbo in the sense that they carried opponents without pointing to other individuals. My vote will probably be weighted heavily on great match theory. That may be seen as a negative for some. My opinion is that in the past couple of days I have seen individuals throw out Funk as #1 contender because he was "entertaining" in every match he was in. I have thought about that and disagree with that attitude and also think it directly slants against some of the more stoic workers that can include Jumbo before his grumpy phase and pretty much Misawa his entire career. Is Misawa going to be slinging a bull rope coming down the aisle, spaghetti leg selling and wrestling in a river, giving amazing although heavily emoting facials like Tenryu and Otani do, or even strutting around like the Nature Boy? No, he will not but I have yet to see a professional wrestler potray being the ace of a promotion with such gravity as Misawa does from 93-98 even with 2 other GWE contenders directly under him in Kawada and Kobashi. Make no mistake, MIsawa was still the man. Beyond that, you can get an entertainment in how he uses the elbow in his matches and sprinkles in his signature spots. Is it comedic or out of control that conjurers up nostalgia and larger than life personas of our chilidhood, no, but it is still entertaining to the individuals that watch the match and serve a purpose. Essentially, Misawa is Batman.

If Dylan is wrestling with culture, he's probably losing on points. I don't know, lot of hipster points there.

I can think of 10 better Young Bucks matches this year.

What an awesome show that still had me wanting more after 4 hours. So much good wealth of information here and fun antidotes and story I was unfamiliar with.

Can I change my vote after reading this?

http://placetobenation.com/p2bn-reaction-show-nxt-takeover-unstoppable/ Will is joined by Dylan Hales (Wrestling Culture), Kris Zellner (Exile on Badstreet), Pete & Johnny Sorrow (Titans of Wrestling). Does NXT have better entrances than the main roster? Can Sasha and Becky have a MOTYC? Two words… Samoa Joe. Stay tuned because we give a fitting eulogy to TNA at the end of the program. An awesome show with an awesome ending. Don’t miss it.

Where will wrestling consumption be in 5 years? With both of you guys having a large collection, will the trend be to revisit older stuff or will accessibility to current stuff push individuals to following modern wrestling only to stay in the loop. More a question for Justin but can break out into both. What made WWF the home territory that you followed closely? Was it the characters, presentation, or geographical region?

Good debut entrance of him signing a contract. More than the JJ and Dlo mentions, Fink being in the crowd here seemed odd and out of place.

Generic match for me that did seem to be a victim of being at the end of the night. The work was fine but this was a regular TV match that we see equaled or surpassed multiple times every week now adays. **

Quick tribute to Dick Murdoch, but nicely done.

Do you think John they could have done something like Doc as a defense in place of Kawada and had Misawa avenge his 7/94 loss? I agree with you that Misawa beating Kawada here wasn't a surprise but I question the match booking in the first place. I have been amazed rewatching Misawa and Kobashi that in my opinion they don't really cross this edge until 6/1999. I can see how 10/97 and 10/98 could feel that way at points to some but they each found new grounds that kept things interesting to me. In contrast to Kawada vs. Misawa, Kobashi and Misawa learned their lesson and didn't have a high profile singles match after 6/99 until 3/03. Misawa and Kawada did take a bit of time off on TC defenses (23 months) but still 6/97 felt like even more of a betrayal of a match and really makes 5/98 feel like such a lesser crowning moment than it really should have even though that is a match I really enjoy despite its flaws.

Im still digging these with Gilbert hamming it up with his Phillies cap. That girl that was dancing with him was swell as well.

Decent Funk promo if not by the numbers.

This really sucks and the characterization of the homeless is pitiful.