El-P

Kinda. Can't figure if the whole thing worked just enough to make it a W or failed just enough to make it a L.

Chapter 9 : A useless post-Streak WrestleMania 31 (2015) – Undertaker vs Bray Wyatt So what to do now that the Streak is over ? In a way, maybe it could be the opportunity to just have a good Taker match at Mania (which doesn't have a number attached to its name anymore, as I guess the Brand is more than enough plus you don't want to date yourself) without the pressure of the damn Streak and questions about how to make it more epic than the previous years. Bray Wyatt wasn’t the worst choice for an opponent as his character, as said about a gazillion times by the announcers is the New Face of Fear (although honestly, after watching that match I’d rather have Meng). Let’s face it, when Bray Wyatt debuted he was the new hot and cool thing, with the great creepy entrance and actual good music theme for a change. The issue is that the New Face of Fear choked at his first Mania against John Cena, who was already on the outs. So, that’s a pretty good feud for him to challenge the Old Face of Fear at Mania. And he gets the superstar entrance, with a bunch of scarecrows scattered all over the giant entrance. Wyatt does come off like star still. Taker’s entrance is the most classic, although under the sun at dusk it’s a wee bit too shiny to get the full effect, but the crowd is delighted to have another Taker match as they are way more vocal than the previous year. Too vocal actually, as they’ll twice chants some aggravating bullshit... The issue with this match though is clear pretty quickly : Bray Wyatt brings jackshit to the table once the bell rings. I mean, Taker, who looks in better shape than the previous year, is playing a bunch of hits, the legdrop outside, the Snake-Eyes big boot combo (countered, but still) and even a good lil’ Old-School which he hasn’t done in years now and which gets an annoying « You’ve still got it ! » chant by the crowd. I’d be pissed if I were Taker. But once Bray gets on offense, it’s Randy Orton-level boring. Super weak-ass punching, a bunch of kicking, a resthold and really a whole lot of nothing happening, at a slow pace too because that’s Taker’s pace now. The « highlight » of Wyatt’s offense is a uranage/senton combo, but after that points it’s super dry and absolutely uninteresting. So basically they have to move to the kick-out-of-finishers ending stretch, with Bray kicking out of the Tombstone, as everybody has done in, what now, 6 years straight so that’s just business as usual. Then of course Taker kicks out of Bray’s finisher, because that's the only way they know. Then Bray will do that crazy pose he does (which really is not creepy at all once you realize it’s just a yoga pose and you’ve done it yourself), which is « countered » by Taker’s zombie sit-up and the crowds goes « This is awesome » when clearly, it’s not. Shot exchange, which is a staple of Taker’s matches for years now, Bray finisher’s countered into the Tombstone. And that's that... Not one singular, interesting nor believable nearfall. Apart from Taker playing a few old hits this was nothing as Bray really brought zilch to the table for such a big match on paper. It totally exposed him as being nothing but an intro and a « demonic » look. I guess you could have done this kind of « play the hits » match for a few years still, as the crowd was obviously super happy to just see Taker. It's like he’s basically part of the setting of Mania now, like... the giant ramp... As an actual match, this was a complete dud. 12-1-10

And there goes the n°1 vote for Christian...

Kind of a backhanded compliment honestly. But yeah, she was head and shoulders above everyone else. She's also HOF worthy and was a biggest star than Christian during the Attitude Era.

This. Who the fuck cares about Christian Cage or botched explosions ? Maki Itoh is the greatest thing ever.

Considering where he works, he should probably rename himself Austin QAnon Theory.

And it wasn't very good. Steamboat really is all about matches. Apart from the throat thrashing angle in WWF, I can't even think of one memorable angle he was part of. Even as a character he was not very good. Karate guy in WWF was kinda lame, Family Man champ with his wife and kid at ringside in NWA was really, really lame, especially when you go against Flair.

That's one other thing that bothers me. Paul Wight was a surprise from nowhere, and it was cool in that sense, less in the sense of "Oh, an almost 50 years old guy from WWE shows up in AEW". But the fact he announces a big signing makes it seem like hey, no worry, the almost 50 years old guy from WWE is not the big deal here, something much more exciting is coming... and in fact, we get another almost 50 years old guy from WWE, who actually is not even as big a name as Big Show (much better addition to the roster in term of what he can bring to the company, yes, but not the "huge huge star" that was promised). It's almost like a ricochet of old WWE guy signing up and there is definitely a TNA feel to it (especially since Christian was the poster boy for this in TNA). This is not what you want at all. If anything, this entire show will teach AEW a lot of valuable lessons. They have showed in the past they were smart and learning, so let's see what's to come. I sure hope they make fun of the shitty explosion in BTE next week.

Matt & Jeff hardy > Bubba > Edge > D-Von > Christian. Yeah, he's 6 on those matches alone. He's actually n°1 in term of being a worker, but like it's been said, it's not what's debated here. The Godfather was over because he had a bunch of strippers in g-strings and hooker heels. Hell, Scotty 2 Hotty & Rikishi dancing were more over than Christian Cage during the Attitude Era... (which is why it's better when pro-wrestling tries to please the hardcore fans instead of a mainstream crowd) Debra's puppies were bigger stars. Let's get real here : Classic Attitude Era (1998/99) : Austin / The Rock / Mr. McMahon / Sable / Foley Later Attitude Era (00/01) : Austin / The Rock / Mr. McMahon / Triple H / dunno who the fifth might be but certainly not Christian, not even close.

Well, Maki Itoh got a bigger response than Christian, so there is that...

That's one hell of a promo he cut there. Also, he did not mention Triple H. Seriously now. Mr. Kennedy comeback for next year's Mania season ?

Chapter 8 : The end of the Streak WrestleMania XXX (2014) - Undertaker v Brock Lesnar So, here we are. There are a few very striking things about this match. First off, Taker’s entrance is pretty classic with the grim vision of all the caskets of his fallen victims (do Triple H really gets three caskets by the way ?), including one for Brock which opens up and then is struck by lightning. Second, despite the undeniable big match feel of the whole thing, the crowd is honestly super tedious for most of it, and really dead at first. Some light Taker chants never really take off, some light boos when Lesnar poses after beating down Taker. It’s really for the longest time a heatless match. And the match itself really doesn’t help, as for a good portion of it, it’s a downright dull and tedious affair. Brock starts off with a great belly to belly but after that point, it’s plodding city. He sells for Taker for a while, as Taker attacks his left arm, a set up for Hell’s Gate I guess, but Lesnar really will never sell his arm in a meaningful fashion anyway. Comparatively, Brock goes for Taker’s leg for a while, including a cool one legged takedown outside, but this is pretty much killing time in a rather slow and un-engaging fashion. But the one thing that is so striking is that Taker really looks old there. His body looks old, he gets gassed really quickly, he doesn’t even go up to the top rope before getting countered on the Old-School tease, he bumps awkward on the padded barricade outside. In other words, Taker really looks like an old dragon fighting his one match too many. Yeah, probably did not help that he got concussed early on. There’s this chokeslam early on following Snake Eyes for which Lesnar jumps really high. Later on when Taker does the Snake Eyes again, as if he was not able to dig into more of his old moveset, he’ll do the big boot combination but the switching of the cams makes it impossible to see how clear he hits it. Really, there’s something pretty sad to watch already. There’s a complete lack of intensity and dynamics and it’s like the crowd knows it, as they really only wake up after the first chokeslam/F5 kick outs, as if spamming finishers is what they were waiting for. Then there’s this really awkward transition into Hell’s Gate, easily the worst ever, as it almost seems Lesnar was waiting a bit longer to walk toward Taker as he saw the guy was totally gassed, so in the end it’s almost like he’s giving him his arm, there’s no sense of struggle, no snap whatsoever. And as he’s lifting Taker to drop him down, he’s not displaying incredible power either, Triple H was about as impressive doing it. Plus they actually repeat the spot, only even much sloppier as the hold is just pathetically applied. This match is now officially the crappiest shoot-style match ever, with Lesnar himself doing his armlock reversed by Taker and Tamura vs Khosaka it isn’t at all... Meanwhile, Heyman is about as comedic as Paul Bearer ever was, doing these cartoony, oversell facials. Taker is soooo gassed and out of it at this point, no wonder he has no recollection of any of this, he actually looks like a zombie now. And it gets sadder as he goes for Old-School and very tentatively walks two footsteps on the rope as if he’s afraid and then Lesnar just grabs him on his shoulders for the second F5 and second kick-out-of-finisher, which is the only thing that really works (Lesnar’s selling of it is quite good). The match really lacks any sort of real intensity and keeps on plodding around until they do the Last Ride trope and it’s like the worst Last Ride ever, Taker looks totally washed out, really. Lesnar really grabs Taker’s body, as he should for his own sake, for the Tombstone and it’s a kick out that everyone expects after five straight years of everybody kicking out of it. So yeah, the crowd’s reactions by this time are much bigger but still not nearly as big as what you’d expect. There’s definite a sense of fatigue, of not being into it. When Taker goes for another Tombstone and it gets reversed into a third F5, it’s almost like « business as usual » and we’re expecting yet another kick-out because the finish as to be something more special, but nope. It *is* the finish. There was actually a buzz in the crowd which I had totally forgotten. Then the buzz kinda dies and we get that sidération feeling, but you still got the sense no one expected this to happen *there*, with *this* spot. The announcement gets mild boos, some « bullshit » chants too. It’s an odd feeling but watching Taker in this match, it does looks like a mercy killing. In a way, it’s poetic justice as Taker is « Human After All », the Myth has vanished. But seeing Taker getting old IRL and not being his old self was legit sad. The fact Lesnar really gained nothing out of it and the plan was to put over Roman Reigns (as if you could transfer the aura of Taker to Reigns like this was just a mathematic operation, which is a ridiculous idea, and I’m not even talking about how tone death the Reigns push was then) makes the whole thing rather hollow, which is the feeling at the end. The match wasn’t good, the finish kinda fell flat, Taker looked like he should have retired two years before. I can’t say it did not work at all as the ending stretch was « ok », but I can’t say this worked well either, not for the crowd, not from a booking standpoint, and certainly not from a quality standpoint. Post-match was nice with the crowd thanking Taker. Felt like the end. It should have been, because it’s only gonna get worst and more sad from there. 12-1-9

I agree with all of this. They need to refocus, as showed by Revolution. Sting getting a win over Ricky Starks strikes me as really odd. I gave them the benefit of the doubt about Miro for too long, he needs to get away of Sabian now and they need to push Penelope as a single star. Focus on the core group of great workers, because that's what the AEW fan want to see (no reason for Max Caster to be in a big match at all). Don't sign any over 45 guys from WWE anymore, please. Focus on the best women and those with real potential as stars (no reason for Big Swole to get a push ever again).

One thing is for sure, Austin Aries being an idiot is not a theory. It's been proven by scientific facts.

That's coming up. The debate on this thread about Christian being a top 5 Attitude Era guy was funny though. And yeah, @Loss is right, sign Debbie Malenko already ! BTW, Maki Itoh is the greatest thing ever apparently. Just put her on my TV every week. It's too bad Josh Alexander is stuck in IMPACT, because The North vs the Young Bucks and FTR would have been awesome matches.

I laughed.

Disclaimer : I have not read the thread at all and have only watched the show today (while successfully avoiding spoilers.... with bittersweet results in the end), so I don't know what you all thought of this, but I think I can guess. Hey, it had to happen eventually. AEW finally has disappointed me greatly on a big show, with TWO huge mishaps. 1/ Christian fucking Cage. I shook my head... I mean, nothing against the guy at all, and if they did not hyped him as some sort of huge star signee, I would have been glad to see him show up and maybe get a great last sting like Jericho's first year in the company, a stint he never had in WWE for petty reasons (but taking in account that he should not be used TNA style). But in this context, with the big time hype, I just shook my head. In a way it was good we had that discussion about him the other day, because I believe I ended up less disappointed than I would if I had seen this cold turkey, but still... What a letdown (again, I'm a big fan of the guy, nothing against him, but the hype was wrong) 2/I was loving that whole Onita tribute match, with tons of little details to Onita's style (including those damn figure-four spots which probably have confused some people). I LOVED the smart counter to the One Winged Angel pinfall. I LOVED Eddie Kingston jumping to protect Mox from the deadly explosion, total Onita style. But...have you seen Onita's matches explosions ? Like the one against Hayabusa ? It looked like the apocalypse, not like Big Daddy Cool's pyros... I think I died a little inside, shook my head again and then went "Well, PWO is gonna have a field day with this, and it'll be 200% right". The whole show felt kinda off honestly, with a "good" Young Bucks match, which by their standards is disappointing, Miro's match although quite entertaining when he was battling Orange, still feeling like an afterthought and I hope now that Miro is gonna break away from Sabian (I gave them the benefit of the doubt for too long honestly, it's time to get serious now) and mostly a very disappointing ladder match. Ethan Page is a cool signing for AEW and I was totally expecting him, so I was happy about that, but fuck me Max Caster has no business on my TV, much less on PPV, what the hell do they see in him ? Shitty raps with 15years behind Cena-like gimmick and Buff Bagwell level work don't work for me brutha. Archer and Penta made it fun but the other guys were kinda there, it was too long and drawn out and not that crazy (especially compared to the previous ones in AEW). Scorpio Sky is a really odd choice for a winner too considering he's done nothing for months and did not feel like he had any momentum. I did enjoy Shida vs Mizunami a lot, the Casino tag-team royal was a lot of fun, Hangman vs Hardy was as good a single Matt Hardy match is gonna be in 2021 and the ending was terrific, the cinematic match was cool and all although not a fan of giving 61 years old Sting the win against a future star. I mean, it doesn't *really* matter because it's less a match than a Lucha Underground-like vignette and you don't want Darby to beat him either in such circumstance, and you gotta give one to Sting I guess, but still, felt a bit odd. And I did love the main event, as an old Onita fan. Until.... these explosions, which I guess in a very meta way was an tribute to the Cactus Jack vs Terry Funk Deathmatch Tournament Final (yeah, the explosions totally sucked then too if you remember, but Terry Funk saved it by looking puzzled as fuck all), but nah, you know it was just a very poor pyrotechnic work (the landmine outside should have clued everyone though, as it looked quite lame too compared to the Onita ones, although I understand why you don't want to do that kind of crazy shit in the US in 2021, but then again, don't do the gimmick then). And it made the post-"explosion" angle look stooooopid as hell, when he should have been great on paper. So, there, first AEW major show that I have no choice but to call a letdown, with two BIG TIME faux pas.

Omega vs Suzuki. Make it happen.

You mean the gimmick match that drew 30.000 to 50.000 people without TV for FMW at Kawasaki Stadium in the 90's ? There's nothing outlaw mudshow about this, Onita is one of the biggest star ever and this is is signature match. Absolutely a one-match show as far as potential greatness goes, but an Onita style match between two of the best workers in the world in 2021, I say this can be one of the most memorable match of the year, at the very least.

Ok, yes, from that point of view, sure. But since I'm used to people shitting on Omega for "lacking psychology", which is like the most ridiculous thing ever, I was half-reading the analogy as something of the sort, since Toyota has been categorized as a go-go-go worker (which she is, from recollection, but that's not a criticism in itself as I put Flair & Angle in the exact same "category"). Not sure yet if I'm up to doing a top 100, but I already have a few ideas of watching/rewatching in mind : classic joshi (80's & 90's), focus on Daniel Bryan (which is a huge black spot for me apart from the most famous WWE stuff), revisit older Terry Funk, explore lucha libre, explore the French catch stuff, follow closely the best modern stuff (and check out some classics from the late 00's/early 10's, and yes I mean NJPW, not WWE). That's for a basis. I have no desire to re-watch any Ric Flair match for the tenth time nor anything from 80's or 90's US pro-wrestling for that matter (nor TNA !!!! that's a done deal and provide arguments for guys like Styles, Angle maybe Daniels too...).

I haven't watched a Toyota match in eons, maybe 15 years, but from there I don't see where the analogy comes from. I would definitely vote for both though, but Toyota would need a serious rewatch, like all the classic joshi candidates really.

If there was ever an argument that watching a lot doesn't mean anything !

Yeah, great match. Okada's bumping and selling was something else. With all due respect, it blew away Tanahashi's match with Takagi. Forget EVIL and SANADA, this is the guy you want to push toward the top now, he's got everything going for him. Honma vs Suzuki was everything you'd expect and more. Honma doesn't look like his old self, he moves funny at times, but they really beat the hell out of each others and how many years Suzuki can keep up at being this great ? KENTA vs Juice was kinda there for a while then turned out quite good in the end. KENTA's troll clapping is funny heel stuff.

WCW Clash of the Champions-like special episodes of the TV show, basically, with either bigger main events of unique matches. Which is really a cool idea.

Hey, people remember the infamous blackfaces from DX, but it has been kinda forgotten than in the "classic" gang wars angle, the babyface faction were a bunch of white bikers, two of them actually sporting SS tatoos... (of course you had those porto rican gangstas but everybody forgot about them anyway, including the bookers, which sucked as they were the best workers of the bunch)