El-P

I cooled off on Benoit before he went to WWF, and stuff like this was one reason why. I cooled off even more watching very early NJ stuff in 2002/03. To be honest, and murder case apart, I would rather watch Norio Honaga vs Liger than Pegasus vs Liger in 1991.

MLW Genesis This really was the first step of ECW nostalgia kicking in. The ECW Arena looks empty and sad though, and the three people chanting MLW ! MLW ! MLW ! kinda sound pathetic. La Parka and Jerry Lynn have a nice little Nitro match. Tayio Kea stiffs the hell out of The Wall, who looks better than during his WCW days. But really, the interesting stuff on the card is all about Shane Douglas vs Steve Corino. They have a great promo exchange which is more compelling than anything on ECW TV since 1998 or so. Douglas is outfranchising himself, dropping f word left and right, but being good at playing the elated veteran coming back to the house he built. Corino's promo here is just awesome, wrapping up the entire history of ECW, Douglas, the NWA title and himself and makes a compelling issue that makes you want to see the match and makes it feel important. Match itself is fine, Douglas is way past his prime but can still work quite a bit. He actually throws some really good punches, which was never his strong point. Corino is just excellent. The booking of the show is just bizarre, as Douglas has to come back right away after winning to face Jerry Lynn, only because the other semi-final will get thrown under the bus later. Douglas vs Lynn is good, but not as good as Corino's match. Douglas can't exactly hang with Lynn as far as quickness goes, but they work a fine match anyway. Lynn hasn't really lost a step since the end of ECW, although he's still a bit sloppy at times especially with his kick to the gut transition into his piledriver. Austin was guilty of the same thing with the Stunner. Rest of the card was really bad as it involved Vampiro. Man this guy sucked. I remember him not being good in WCW, but I didn't realized he sucked so much. Can do a few good spot, throws a few stiff shots, looks like a zombi, can't put together a match to save his life, is really sloppy at times, gasps for air after two minutes. Chris Daniels bumps good for him, so this match was at least watchable, but the Kea match was really awful, as Kea is not a guy who will put a match together either. Then the shitty booking kicks in, the semi-final turns into a 3 man match for whatever reasons, and Douglas wins the belt quickly. Then the stupid NWA belt throwing rehashing angle. Douglas is pretty hilarious here, acting way over the top, you can feel he doesn't take it seriously at all. I think he was done with the company quickly afterward too, working mostly XPW at the time. Well, three good little matches and one great promo battle, not too bad.

Agreed. The Triple suplex spot was ridiculous because it meant nothing. If one can counter the last suplex, it totally negates the impact of the first two. And what does that imply for one simple suplex, it should be no-sold automatically. That's one thing I hated about those guy working WWF style, is that they had to have cute gimmick spots like this as if just being great wrestlers wasn't enough. Of course the worse in Rey's 619.

Ric did much more harm to his own legend than David ever could actually.

Taker doesn't look a day under 60 here.

Jerciho is one of those guy who clearly peaked in WWF/E, even to me who don't like the style. It's pretty obvious. Jericho in the mid-90's had ton of potential. He was a fun spot machine in Japan, ECW and early days of WCW. Then he developped his character and got one of the most fun wrestler on TV in 1998, and was already very good. But he clearly peaked when he got to work big matches in WWF. As far as becoming a star, well, he could have, but we know how he got saddled with Stephy, how HHH worked a horrible match with him at a WM that pretty much killed the idea Jericho was a *big* star. I don't think many other from the WCW crew peaked in WWF though. Eddie had its glory moments, but he was much better back in 1997 and the WWE main event style dragged him down (not much, because he was Eddie). Benoit had his best days in Japan in the 90's. Rey, well, I won't go over Rey again, I know I'm in the minority now thinking lucha/WCW Rey is much better than 619 Rey. Booker T maybe, although I don't think Booker was ever particulary good. Paul Wight I guess too, but that should be a given ocnsidering he was a rookie in WCW after all.

And since I'm feeling nostalgic, here's something that tells how odd the french version of WWF Superstar was. Taker vs Bulldog, during Taker's first WWF championship reign. Apparently, it hasn't been broadcast in the US. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dmV9rX8YtE

I'm just thinking that I saw my first WM card 20 years ago. Flair vs Savage, Hooser Dome. Eddie Carpentier & Guy Hauray on commentary. Time flies.

Brakkus. Looked like another monster. Barely made TV if at all except for getting his ass handed to him by Savio in the toughman deal.

Indeed. Agreed. Gilbert is a born heel. He did as fine a job he could as a face during his stint, but it clearly isn't what he is the best at. I liked his mini TV feud with Samu in 1990. That's what I really liked about Cornette, he didn't pander to the crowd, he didn't act like he was a good guy all of a sudden. it's just that now people cheered them beacuse they were *their* assholes opposing Paul E. and the Original MX. Continuity, rare enough thing in wrestling to be noted.

WWF squashed WCW in the Invasion, because WCW guys were *wrestlers* while WWF guys were *superstars*. I guess.

Lady Gaga.

We sure hope so. I'll throw out one last name : Johnny Ace.

He's about right on the money, sadly. You should have asked about what he thinks of Ric Flair blading on TV at 60, selling his Hof watch, owing money to Highspots and being complete embarrasment in general.

I don't think it was the point. Wrestling was fake since Vince said it was years before, that point was way behind already. They were getting shit on at the time because WWF programms were becoming really vulgar and such, and their response was "hey, it's only entertainment you snobs".

The whole talk about "getting it" or not reminds me the über obnoxious "Get it ?" campaign in 1999. Yeah, people points to their crotch and say "suck it", there was really something to get there. And yeah, what did Mister T. ever did except the A-Team and being in that Rocky movie with Hogan... Ah, wrestling people and their insecurity...

To me it was the nadir of wrestling TV (of course I hadn't seen WCW Russo yet). Complete shit. No good wrestling on TV, a feud that already had overstayed its welcome by a good 6 months (really, the godawful stuff with Taker and Kane during the Fall followed by the terrible russoific Survivor Series). Drove me off completely. I couldn't stand the Rock back then, and Foley maiming himself with a hundred chair shots only to get a shit finish. Then you got soap opera crap like Taker kidnapping Stephy, the Higher Power angle (It was me, it was me all along), the shittiest WM ever (swerves galore). Then Owen's death totally depressed me. I quit after SummerSlam. In retrospect, it was too bad since Russo left a few months later, and the following year and a half was back at being really fun with some actual good wrestling thanks to the afflux from WCW, Rock coming into his own, Austin's return... Another reason why I hate Russo. Drove me away just before it got really good and fun again for a while. I wish I had quit after SummerSlam 98 (the apex of the MNW years for WWF to me) and came back with SummerSlam 99 (Jericho debuting). The 12 months between the two cards are just a black hole of suckiness.

It's hard for me to say on that one, because by the time I started watching Vince had already been wrestling. But I never minded him in the ring. He was a big guy with big muscles, and a natural charismatic performer whose matches were well-booked, and anyway he usually spent most of the time getting his ass kicked. Whenever he managed to beat anyone, it was typically portrayed as a total fluke or massive screwjob. Some people will still complain "but he's not a wrestler!", to which I reply: says who? He's obviously done his share of training, and has probably had a hundred matches by now. Yet some smarks will oddly cling to the idea that he's less of a real wrestler than some rookie kid in the curtain jerker. Besides, the fact that he's Vince F'n McMahon makes a big difference. He's the father of modern wrestling, period. He's not like Russo or Bischoff, some relatively untalented weenie who snuck in the back door of the business. If he wants to make himself a star, and if it succeeds (which it did, hugely) then I don't see the problem. He was a jacked up 55 year old with zero wresting match under his belt in 1999. Plus the way he won the Rumble made the entire thing a farce. It showed that pretty much you could do anything and it didn't matter because it was a show. And at the time, it pissed me off beyond belief because the Rumble was my favourite gimmick match, and it turned the whole thing into a soap opera. Of course, Russo is ten times worse, but still, there's no way McMahon should have been put into this "wrestler" spot to me. I didn't enjoy McMahon vs Austin at all either. I wanted to see some wrestling, I got bad action movie stuff with bad acting. I loved McMahon as a character in 1998, but as soon as I had to consider him as a wrestler, it was done. Winter of 99 killed my interest in WWF, and it really never recovered. Of course, Bischoff and Russo are a lot worse because they have even less legitimacy, but still. As far as "father of modern wrestling", well, I don't see the point. Should Jim Barnett have put the NWA belt on himself at some point, that would have been ok too ? I know people creams themselves about Vince, but to me, Vince working matches was mostly crap and killed my suspension of disbelief. Let's not mention the Vince vs Shane match, ever.

Exactly, Arquette was a guy who liked wrestling and was caught into a shitstorm of nonsense called WCW Russo. Russo is the only one to blame, and Arquette probably had a lot more respect for pro-wrestling than say, Sable. And really, was Vince McMahon winning the Royal Rumble any better ? I know it's the thing that killed my interest in WWF after 10 years of being a mark.

He probably doesn't know either. His former line of defense was "Oh, I wasn't even the booker when it happened." Which is of course, total bullshit too.

Going through the last stage of ECW HCTV in 2000, I'd be happy if I never watch another RVD match ever. Seriously annoy the hell out of me.

Ditto. I though Shaq was supposed to be part of Mania ?

I never saw the "asshole" chant as a sign of getting hot heel heat. Maybe at first, but after a while, it quickly became a pavlovian reactions to McMahon and affiliates. It's not like Hogan being covered in trash at the beginning of the nWo angle or Michaels getting booed the fuck out in late 97/98.

I guess Warrior is ironically seen as a fun promo today, but really, he was just godawful on the mic. A bunch of pseudo-mystical bullshit that made no sense, nonsensical rambling with grunting noises. Not to mention his WCW comeback, when he delivered probably some of the worst ever. The best Warrior matches do beat tha best HHH matches though, without much doubt. And he was colorful and exciting, at least that's how I perceived him when I was a child. HHH would not have excited me at all at the same age, he looks bland as hell. He can thank Mötörhead, because that's the best thing about his character.

Add me to the guys who kinda liked Mongo in the Horsemen. He was a 39 old rookie with a battered body being put on TV in competitive matches. I thought he looked ok all things considered in tag matches. I enjoyed his deal with Jarrett quite a bit. And I agree he was a better Horsemen than Malenko, for the reasons already mentionned above. Mongo as a color man during the first months of Nitro was godawful though.