El-P

The build to Hallowen Havoc was so weak. They shot two angles for Sid/Sting and Steiners/Nasties at some house show, and they replayed them every week on *every* show. For a month. Got a kick out of another Freebirds angle though. They're feuding with teh Renegade Warrior (yikes) and Iron Eagle (yikes), and they promise a big star as their third partner for a 6 man tag. The "big star" ends up being Barry Horowitz. Of course the Freebirds gang up on Iron Eagle, double DTT's him, and let Horowitz gets the win. Horowitz wins ! Horowitz wins ! Horowitz wins ! Fun stuff. Just realized Allen Iron Eagle was a young Joe Gomez, from Nitro fame. Amazing. J.W. Storm really sucks. When you can't have a decent match with Zenk, you're no good.

Didn't mind it at the time, i'd only been a fan for 5 years at this stage so it didn't matter much either way that he wasn't a WWF guy. The basic story - guy going for the world title gets really serious and goes back to train with his mentor for the fight of his life is a pretty cool one. In theory yes it is but in execution, it didn't fit Michaels at all. And really, Lothario brought nothing to the table on any level. Really, the only highlight of the whole deal was Sid busting him with a camera at Survivor Series.

Actually it happened. Just saw a Steiner match on Main Event with Patterson at ringside. The Steiners have now the dubious honor of having no less than three worthless "advisors" at ringside : Missy Hyatt, Thunderbolt Patterson and Ted DiBiase. Now that's a trivia moment.

The is the infamous interview during which Heyman introduces the new Taz ? If so, it's a pretty great promo. Heyman was gold at promoting his guys and make them feel like important.

The highlight of the 95 set for sure. Dan Spivey was just awesome in this role. And the creepy theme music was one of the best ever produced by WWF. Too bad Spivey's knees were shot, we were deprived of the greatness of Waylon Mercy.

You're really a fan of Raven's promos, aren't you ?

I dunno, I kinda buy it too. It's not like he's defending his work in the interview, he flat out said it didn't make any sense at times but since the fans enjoyed it, what the hell.

That's what I enjoyed about ECW, is that not everyone was living in their own little universe with their exclusive feuds. That was a strong point in WCW in early nWo era too.

Yep. They didn't look scripted, they looked messy and chaotic, which was the purpose. The best stuff on top in WCW during the nWo years.

That's pretty much what he said in his shoot interview. He realized that some of his spots didn't make any sense in the match, but the audience loved them, so he felt he had to work that way to please the fans. In a way, it's tough to argue against that.

I agree with that. I remember the story of Sting asking Flair not long into their run why they did the same match every night, and Flair told him people want to see the familiar spots and feel disappointed when they don't get them. That doesn't surprise me. But still, Luger's matches with Flair in 1990 were terrific. So...

Which one ? The knee injury surely didn't. From distant memories (dating from the GWOAT poll), Sting was having tons of very good to great matches post 92, so at some point the guy got it. Either that or Vader beat the good work into him.

Really, after watching 1989 and most of 1990, Sting strikes me as a very mediocre worker at best thus far. I haven't seen one match in those two years were I can say that Sting was *good*. He had the worst major Flair match of those two years, had the worst matches at Starrcade 89 of any combination between him, Muta, Flair & Luger. I wasn't very high on Sting to begin with, but the acrobatic spots and the miraculous Flair match in 88 kinda hide the fact that he wasn't very good at all at this point. Luger on the other hand delivered whenever he was put in position to (expect against Mark Callous, who was not good either), and he brought stuff to the table, mostly positive. Sting didn't. I wonder at which point Sting became a good and game worker (he was by the time he feuded with Vader I think), but in 89/90, he sure wasn't.

You bring a strong sense of melancholia to all of this.

This never gets old. How Gene didn't crack I don't know.

How do you know all that Loss? Thanks. When you got State Patrol "squash matches" on TV, you know the TV is bad... Also, the top 10 was incredibly random, but in hindsigh it was total insider stuff in a "see who's getting pushed and depushed" way. Oh, god... Trucker Norm...

Yes, but it was nowhere as good as it could have been elsewhere. Too much "Eliminator" vibe to the match, although not as bad obviously. This and Sabu/RVD vs Hayabusa/Shinzaki are the two missed opportunities for the ECW alumnis to work a really strong match.

I know Orndorff went to SMW before coming back, but I just wonder why they didn't keep him around as he looked really solid and had a name.

What about Tito? Steamer and Savage have the 'Mania III match, but were any of their other matches nearly as well received? (Honest question, BTW) The Tito/Savage IC Title feud in '86 produced quite a few well-received matches. Yep. Actually, for Savage I'd put : 1 - Steamboat 2 - Santana 3 - Flair 4 - DDP 5 - Warrior DDP rejuvenated Savage like no one else could have in 1997.

One of the first puro match I've seen actually, it was one of of those 6 hour tapes I bought at the very beginning when I got into the scene. From what I remember, it's ridiculously good, especially with a young RVD (although one could argue it was easier to get a good match out of him before he got all those stupid idiosyncrasies and chair shot spots). Kroffat was an amazing worker.

Holy shit, you don't say. I herd (ah !) about it before, but never actually saw it in execution. What a terrible idea. Look at this guy coming out with an army of kids to the ring. And he's taking off that kid's shirt ! Yeah, he should have team up with the Candyman, who "loves to give children candies.". Anyway, that Beetlejuice gimmick was embarrassing. Barr appeared to be a good worker, totally ahead of his time in 1990 WCW, but that character was destined to fail. Another case of WCW trying to outcartoon WWF. On the worthless debut aspect, J.W. Storm appears. And Moondog Rex is on TV). Fresh talent. And meanwhile, Orndorff who looked so good is already gone. Wonder why his comeback was so short. Same thing for Bam Bam, who appeared for a short period of time, did nothing of note, then vanished. What a bizarre period.

Ok. I was wondering since both got TV time at the same moment. The gauntlet concept was interesting although a little bit random, but that goes with WCW. On 09.22, they gave Scott Steiner a clean pin on Ric Flair during a gauntlet match. Were they already testing the water for a future Scott single push ? Seems that way to me. Anyway, it really appeared there that Flair lost a lot of stocks, he was nearly squashed by Scott, although the constant interfering by Arn and Rick for the final spot made that match more angle driven than anything else. Still, Luger couldn't beat Flair at the Clash, as to protect Flair, but here Scott gets a 1-2-3 on TV. Kinda odd. On the brighter side, Dan Spivey has come back (wearing some god awful long pants he stole from Beefcake). And the seeds are planted for the Doom vs Horsemen feud.

Thanks FLIK. Can't wait until Madusa shows up. With the departure of Woman and Missy stuck in hosting the Main Event, there's no glamour on the show. Fuck, when the Freebirds were becoming fun again, there's Rocky King as Little Richard. Totally blocked that out of my mind. Seriously, what did this guy do to warrant any kind of TV time ? Discrimination lawsuit threats along with Thunderbolt Patterson (who shows up from time to time on commentary to blabbers nonsense, foreshadowing him managing the Steiners which thankfully never happened as far as I know) ? I heard that story previously, but have no idea what the truth is. Anyway, he sucks. And yep, Frankensteiner was right, Allen Iron Eagle, Wendell Cooley. Hum.. exciting newcomers. At least Terry Taylor will soon turn heel, so he'll be fun to watch.

And he can't cut a forehead worth a shit.

Man, I don't know if Clash 11 was the most watched, but it was sure a shitty show. Only two things made sense, the nice opener between the Freebirds and the Southern Boys, which was a good sprint, and the Flair vs Luger match and post match attack by Hansen. Flair vs Luger really tore down the house, and depsite one military press too many at the end, it was a better match than Capital Combat I thought. I love Flair putting small touches, like before delivering a hellish chop, he shouts right at the camera "Turner, Herd, that's for you !". Great stuff. Gotta love also how Hansen just bombed Luger right when you'd think Luger just was gonna win via count-out. The seeds were planted earlier when Hansen got enraged that Luger was ahead of him in the rankings, and it puts Luger on the rail for another excellent feud, so there you go. But the rest of the show was just a mess. Tommy Rich and Hansen feuded during the Summer : no Rich vs Hansen match, instead Rich got Bill Irwin, back as a JTTS from nowhere, and Hansen killed Zenk, which was good for what it was, but still. Rock'n Roll and Doom planted the seeds for a big tag team championship match : neither were on the card. The Steiner won the US belt on a house show and got to kill two jobbers here. WTF ? Why not put the match on TV at least ? No Arn TV title match. Hell, the Horsemen weren't even there to watch Sting or Flair. The Nasties vs Jackie Fulton & Red Rooster (oups) was decent and a good way to showcase the new team, but did we really need the Master Blasters ? Man, Nash looked jacked. Realize that this guy is still on your TV in WWE now... And a woman match between Bambi and Susan Sexton, whoever the hell they are ? Again WTF, although you gotta love how JR says "Woman's wrestling has evolved in the last few years. There aren't as many woman wrestler now, it's a little bit more isolated". Basically "This doesn't matter at all, I have no idea why this is on the card either people." Sometimes Ross is great for these kind of things. And of course, Sting vs Black Scorpion Perez sucked, and you can feel the heat die down as soon as the Scorpion undress and reveal Random Masked Wrestler #6592. The whole "The Real Black Scorpion is on the ramp" is neat in a hindsight kayfaybe way, because obviously, Sting learned from the Black Scorpion during the nWo years. Anyway, shitty show, one excellent match. Flair and Luger were obviously the two biggest star although Sting was over, but he wasn't helped at all with this horrible angle. Best thing to come to me is Luger vs Stan.