Matt D

What's a Coral? As for Bray, I think a lot of the problem is that the message is off. He's not the sort of guy that can just try to win matches for the sake of it. He has to have a compelling purpose. With Bryan, it was about subverting the Yes Movement. With Cena (which really should have probably been built to over another year before it happened) it was about destroying the hypocrisy involved in "Rise Above Hate" and showing Cena that he was really no better than anyone else, a false idol. With Jericho, I have no idea. Ambrose isn't much better. Maybe he's trying to channel the primal chaos that Ambrose is tapping into or something? I don't know. That's a problem though. Also, while he wins matches, and even feuds, he doesn't actually accomplish what he set out to do most of the time. Alternatively, part of why Rusev is so successful is that the message is real clear. He is the Superior Athlete and he will prove it again and again.

From memory as havent seen it since SV released it possibly 93 time I thought Savage/Valentine was a pretty good wrestling match. The Iron man match from this show is probably the best Iron man match WWE have done. Fans generally I guess dont like it because they went a hour without one fall which is something ive always detested with the HHH/Rock one because of regular moves getting a 3 count. Have you seen Bret vs Flair from Boston in January 93?

Even if that's NOT what's going on, I kind of hope people spread it around like it is so that the Philly crowd can revolt over it.

I'm an admitted sucker for inventive counters to Cena's routine stuff.

I will reluctantly admit that the one element I didn't touch on was the idea of continuity in sports and I think it's because usually people don't think of investing in a team that way, but it is there from year to year, a narrative that builds on what comes before. I don't think it's mutually exclusive from what I was going for as that fit my youth a bit better (I didn't really get into sports in the "I need to watch Sportscenter every day" sense until 92 and I was more or less done with them on that level by 94). In some ways, a MLB or NFL team is sort of a story within a shared universe too.

Thanks to Bill for doing a preliminary read on this one. I like for SOMEONE to take a look at it early on and usually I go to Chad for that but there was a lot going on this month.

Nostalgia wise: nothing hits the spot quite like Survivor Series 90, though Summerslam 91 comes close, as does basically the entire of Summer/Fall 1991 WCW (my essay for Starrcade 91 will be sort of a love letter to shared universe trappings in early 90s wrestling). And the Patriot/Dark Patriot feud from GWF. I do sort of apologize for a lot of that by saying "it's nostalgia" though.

Is there confirmation anywhere that 100k people really bought Survivor Series on PPV?

Criteria seems important here and I don't have good answers. I just watched Lynch vs Bailey and that match, to me, felt very well produced and pretty well executed. And frankly, that's good enough for what they're trying to do. I'm not sure what the criteria is. Do we have to see how well they do on a five minute nothing match on Raw? Do we have to see how well they do in a 8 minute PPV concession stand match? On a Superstars match with less production eyes on it? I thought Emma and Paige were better a year ago than I do now? I'm not sure why that is? Is it just opportunity?

To clarify, I don't think they're doing Rock/Rusev at Mania. I just thought the American Underdog story they were hinting at with Bryan vs Rusev at TTTT was compelling in ways I hadn't quite been expecting. Bryan in that more patriotic role felt very out of place on the show, but at the same time, it added to my enjoyment of the segment. THAT said, I don't think we're seeing Bryan back in a ring anytime soon. The news is a little all over the place there, but my impression is that he's held off on surgery he probably should have had months ago in the hopes that he'd recover without it (be it due to holistic wonkery or mere hope) and that maybe that hasn't been going quite as well as it could have. I could certainly see Rock vs Rusev happening sometime in the next year or two.

There was interesting talk on Austin this week where he praised heavily how much of the match Dynamite often took which is generally my biggest problem with him. That goes back to the shades of grey associated with the whole project. Dynamite was obviously a good enough wrestler to know what he was doing and what he was doing was good for him and his overness and credibility but it often made the matches he was in worse even if he was ultimately better off for it than if he had better matches. On one level he would have been wrong to do anything but what he did.

So, after TTTT I want to see Bryan vs Rusev way more than Cena vs Rusev or Rock vs Rusev.

That's a shame between what would come out with the leaks and then Vince's reaction.

I'd use Angle as an example instead of the Big Show.

They were desperate to get the renewals of the initial Network subscribers and felt that was the biggest match they could put on.

Personally I like it when Johnny comes up with the more elaborate explanations instead of just "He's a heel!!!!!"

I got 3 DVDs in the mail today from Mark (OdessaSteps) as an XMas present. He was dubbing old tapes. One was some 85 Crockett. One was an hour or two leading up to Shocker losing his mask. The third (unmarked) was a Brody comp. He was trolling me. Freaking Brody.

They did have a couple of house shows matches in March 90. WWF @ Providence, RI - Civic Center - March 10, 1990 (7,500) Al Perez defeated Paul Roma Hillbilly Jim defeated Bad News Brown via count-out Tito Santana pinned Buddy Rose Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart defeated WWF Tag Team Champions Andre the Giant & Haku via disqualification Greg Valentine defeated Sam Houston via submission with the figure-4 Brutus Beefcake pinned Rick Martel WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan & the Big Bossman defeated Mr. Perfect & the Genius WWF @ East Rutherford, NJ - Meadowlands - March 11, 1990 (just under 10,000) Al Perez defeated Paul Roma Greg Valentine pinned Sam Houston Rick Rude pinned Tito Santana The Bushwhackers defeated Nikolai Vokoff & Boris Zhukov when Butch pinned Zhukov WWF Tag Team Champions Andre the Giant & Haku defeated Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart Dusty Rhodes defeated Randy Savage via count-out Jake Roberts pinned Ted Dibiase after guest referee the Big Bossman punched Dibiase

Pete was spot on. Ambrose/Wyatt needed 300% more Memphis. I'll second the Rowan moment as the best in recap show. I'm with everyone that they need to retire the show.

Karl Marx Approves of this note?

I've got to watch this Super Porky match from 2010 first, but after that it's on track for a listen and I'll let you know. EDIT: It's already going rough since we had to get the Gazoo impression from Kris instead of Johnny. Ladder match discussion was really good though. I'm probably in the middle of both camps. I did think that Harper brought a ton of little touches that made everything feel organic and that yeah, it's the sort of match made for Ziggler. Match of the night but it would have worked so much better on a Wrestlemania or Summerslam or somewhere that it could feel important and stand out. Mizdow argument was pretty good too. I do sort of agree that it could end like Riley, or maybe a better example is Virgil, where it builds to one big match. I have a decent amount of sentimentality from Sandow from watching him come up years and years ago. He was a babyface for a while in that indy but he was sort of like babyface Edge from a character POV there. Maybe a little more towards Stevie Richards. When he went face, it went mostly straight. This will come up later with the last match I think, but one thing about this show that came through with the Rowan talk is the idea of finishes. Rowan looked good in losing. Dylan and Johnny felt that way. I did as well. And I wonder if I'm just so desensitized to WWE booking that it's something that we cling to or if it's actually true? My biggest takeaway from listening to you guys talk about the first half of the podcast is that WWE put on a show where they really accomplished a lot of what they were trying to do(ok, not the Reigns promo and the Kane/Ryback match), far more so than usual. Whether what they wanted to do was the right thing or not is a different question. Also they managed to make things seem different match-to-match in this setting. Which by the end I was a little hossed out, but is still impressive.

I think a loss where you control most of the match and have the biggest moments is worth more than a win where you look like an absolute chump the whole time. Granted, a win where you don't look like a chump the whole time is probably worth more.

I would vote 2009 Chris Masters (basically only on C shows) over 1989 Ted Dibiase in a heartbeat. I'm not sure what we're even talking about anymore or at least why we're talking about it.

See. So I am only remembering ONE of the two guys with the gimmick anyway. Pretty unimportant belt. I think a Network title that's defended on Main Event every week is not a bad idea at all, btw.

I think the most important thing was that they got the big one right at Mania. I'm not saying that forgives everything else, but it does help.