Victator Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 I like that Rovert has dug up the old "all opinions are equal" argument and remade it into the "wrong opinions" argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Like I said SLL once the "talking points" or the "strawmen" come out nothing good ever comes out of it. Im sorry that for some people liking Shawn Michaels totally invalidates their opinion inside and outside of Pro Graps On top of everything else that Dylan, Loss, John, and Vic pointed out, why are we barring "talking points" and "strawmen" - the latter of which hasn't even been used in this thread - as acceptable phrases in an argument? They're perfectly valid terms describing things that do exist, that are used, and that don't have other, better terms to describe them ("sloganeering" is related to the use of talking points, but doesn't mean "talking point" itself, nor does "slogan", and "tilting at windmills" describes a concept similar to strawmen, but is not quite the same thing). Furthermore, talking points and strawmen are things that are actually used in arguments. Is it acceptable to use them, but not to identify them by name? This isn't 1984, and you're not Big Brother. You don't get to shrink my vocabulary at your convenience. And since when does no good come of using these terms? I can't recall any great developments stemming from them, I grant you. Don't know anyone who used the "they're calling Mark Henry a superworker" strawman in '06 realizing the error of their ways when it was pointed out to them. Still, I don't see how not pointing that out makes things better than doing so. Â And you're still ducking my question: Â No, Dylan is bemused about Bryan having the WRONG FACTS about wrestling. Â You are angry about Dylan having the WRONG OPINIONS about wrestling reporting. Â I am mildly annoyed about you having NEEDLESSLY DEFENSIVE OPINIONS about Meltzer and Alvarez, and bizarrely specifically defending against Dylan even though he's hardly the only person here who thinks that way, but I can work around that. What on earth are you even talking about here? Wow wrong on three fronts. What are those three fronts? I want you to tell me now so we're all 100% clear about what we're talking about. If I have to ask a question three times, it's usually because the person I'm asking has no answer. In the interest of accuracy and intellectual honesty, I have to ask you to either answer it, or apologize for dragging this thread off topic in order to further lash out a poster you've been arbitrarily targeting for some time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Thread is now the dirt worst. Â You guys can over analyse what I said all you want. I just find Dylan's treatment of Bryan in this thread childish, unfair and currently hardly based on anything substantive. All things in my view at least that shouldn't be part of this forum nor is it something I tend to associate with Dylan when it comes to his posts on Wrestling. That is why I and in fairness others flagged up his comment in the first place. Â I love that I am "arbitrarily targeting (Dylan) for some time" when what this is like the second time we have had crossed words on here. This why I chose not to engage with you SLL or the narrative you are trying to create here. Im not interested in untying the knots you are making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 So I take this to mean your truth commission days are over? Â For what it's worth I would prefer Bryan devote most of his time to Coast 2 Coast style efforts and in no way am I slagging him for choosing to do a show like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Personally, I don't really see the problem with this tournament and tend to agree with Lance Storm's opinions on it.  First off, I think it's a really interesting idea to basically have all these veterans of the business giving matches star ratings. It could be a massive failure, but I like the out of the box thinking in trying it.  And Lance is right, value is in the eye of the beholder here. If somebody thinks this is worth the expense who's to say it isn't? People pay ridiculous sums of money to get trained, people pay to get tryouts, wrestlers will lose money just to travel to work a show that they might get paid for with a hot dog and a cup of coffee......this is the reality of the wrestling business, the entire business is predicated on being a scam.....Johnny Mantell is no different from any other promoter looking to make a buck, and the wrestlers who are doing this show are no different from any other wrestler who made sacrifices in an attempt to make a name for himself  I mean, there's a good chance that some of these guys impress a Harley Race or Bockwinkel or Orton or Funk and it helps them get more bookings and maybe takes them another step closer to their dream of wrestling in the WWE. If all these announced judges are actually there (and that's the thing I'd be the most worried about) that's a lot of people with a lot of connections in the business....in that sense it's sort of an invaluable opportunity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted January 18, 2011 Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Thread is now the dirt worst. Â You guys can over analyse what I said all you want. I just find Dylan's treatment of Bryan in this thread childish, unfair and currently hardly based on anything substantive. Â Childish I would allow, expect he's not really doing anything that the rest of us aren't. Yet you home in on Dylan and Dylan alone. Why? Â Unfair and hardly based on anything substantive? Even Beast agrees that Bryan goofed on this one. Do you have reason to believe he didn't? If so what is it? If you can provide an actual defense of Bryan, why won't you provide it? Â All things in my view at least that shouldn't be part of this forum nor is it something I tend to associate with Dylan when it comes to his posts on Wrestling. Â LIAR! LIAR! LIAR! Â Dylan Waco angry about Bryan having the WRONG OPINIONS about wrestling again is he? That reads an awful lot like someone who associates that sort of behavior from Dylan. Did I misread that comment? How did I do so? Â That is why I and in fairness others flagged up his comment in the first place. Other people meaning Beast, who actually agreed with the specific point in question but didn't care for Dylan's tone? And absolutely no one else? Â I love that I am "arbitrarily targeting (Dylan) for some time" when what this is like the second time we have had crossed words on here. Â LIAR! LIAR! LIAR! Â This why I chose not to engage with you SLL or the narrative you are trying to create here. Im not interested in untying the knots you are making. Neither am I. I was interested in untying the knots you are making, yet every time I ask you to help me, you just tie more knots. And at this point, it's pretty clear that's all you're going to do, so I'm less interested in untying your knots than in feeding you enough rope to tie yourself up in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Christ SLL get over it, seriously. How ridiculous can one person be about this? You are making up people's positions to argue with at this stage. Dylan was the one who made the comment that is why I "homed on" Dylan. Please SLL dont post about this again.  Dylan, I dont mind you "slagging off" someone as long as you state a decent reason. We can post the pluses and minuses of Bryan until the cows come home but to say that he is simply isn't knowledge is neither true nor fair  Ignoring SLL's peculiar posts, I just what to say is that in general I don't have any issue with Dylan as a poster and if he perceives that I have then let me say I dont and want to squash it dead as it has gone on for too long already for what it is. LETS MOVE ON. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I don't think Bryan is very knowledgable about scams and cons in the bigger picture.  Many of the best scams are ones that offer to the mark the illussion of getting something of value in return for your money, but that something is of extremely limited value/cost to the scammer.  John  Yeah this. That is how carnival hustles work.  You can actually win a 12 cent cupie doll if you pay the two dollars and climb up the rope ladder. Potential of winning actual cupie doll doesn't make it less of a scam.  First off, I think it's a really interesting idea to basically have all these veterans of the business giving matches star ratings. It could be a massive failure, but I like the out of the box thinking in trying it. On the one hand I think it's nice that Mantell found a way to pay his old friends to sit around and drink at a beerfest. On the other hand, I think Patty Mullen and Ken Osmond are still alive...it seems sad not to use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 On the other hand, I think Patty Mullen and Ken Osmond are still alive...it seems sad not to use them. This made me laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Please SLL dont post about this again. What's that? Post about it again in excessive detail? Why sure! Â Ignoring SLL's peculiar posts, I just what to say is that in general I don't have any issue with Dylan as a poster and if he perceives that I have then let me say I dont and want to squash it dead as it has gone on for too long already for what it is. From this thread.... Â Dylan Waco angry about Bryan having the WRONG OPINIONS about wrestling again is he? Dylan's "Bryan Alverez has the worst taste in Wrestling in the world" all because he likes different things than he does supposedly bit he trots out is rather ridiculous and tired thats all. Especially now Dylan seemingly has extended it outside of Wrestling as well. From this board.... Â Dont feed the troll. Ive never never known you to be this transparent. Â Normally your troll attempts are wrapped in "limb selling" and "believable strikes." On DVDVR.... Â Nice come back, lol you accusing someone of trolling is lol worthy. Oh Dylan, this foefic along within operating in the belief that your opinions on Wresling are the only true, objective view point is the dirt worst. Im not trolling here Ive already displayed that people do indulge in fake narratives on here. You are the one who is sucking up to the cool kids just read your recent responses in this thread. Nice personal attacks too. All I want is people to least be accurate and keep statements which they are citing within the context in which they are said. Â You can continue with your foefic now. That's a quick, surface-level search of your back catalogue. And no, the fact that you quietly dropped your "Move over, Joe Babinsack" sig in the middle of all of this doesn't make your claim any more convincing or any less bizarre. Â LETS MOVE ON. To what? Certainly not the original topic. You took offense to it, and sent us all down this odd avenue. Where are we supposed to steer the ship now, captain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 To get back to the subject at hand, perhaps the dumbest aspect of all this, which is saying a lot, is booking Jake Roberts to judge wrestling matches during a three day Beerfest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Patty Mullen was only around because Flair fucked her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Nice to see SLL got over it jeez. Ill just ignore him ascribing thoughts and actions to me. Just find humour in it at this stage. You'd swear I "homed" in on him. Â Â To get back to the subject at hand, perhaps the dumbest aspect of all this, which is saying a lot, is booking Jake Roberts to judge wrestling matches during a three day Beerfest. In a similar vein poor Terry Funk being rushed into making his point/decision in what seems to be an extreme time pressed circumstance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 At 9 tonight, Bryan's friend Ed is doing a show with Johnny Mantell. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/edward-loredo  Considering he takes phone calls, it would be worth it for someone to call in and confront Mantell on the con he's trying to pull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Ed's show preview in all its glory:  This week on OTTR~! join Ed and his cohosts Cutrer and Craig as they are joind by long time wrestler JONNY MANTELL~! Well talk about the biggest tournament in pro-wrestling history. Well they get 400 wrestlers, what wrestling greats will be there as judges and the debait if it is worth the entree fee to sign up for it. Then we will do what Dave & Bryan couldnt do and thats get a great interview about his time in WORLD CLASS and all the greats of that time. Wellskabout getting the big upset win over Jimmy Garvin tha led to the whole Garvin, Sunshine, Precious splite. His thoughts on all the Von Erichs, Brody, and the freebirds~! All this and more on OTTR~! At 9 tonight, Bryan's friend Ed is doing a show with Johnny Mantell. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/edward-loredo  Considering he takes phone calls, it would be worth it for someone to call in and confront Mantell on the con he's trying to pull. Can it be the same guy who called in last week who asked Dave Lagana how much would he like to punch Matthew Randazzo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 debaitC'mon, whomever wrote this. There is absolutely no way a halfway decent spell-checker wouldn't have kicked that one back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 At 9 tonight, Bryan's friend Ed is doing a show with Johnny Mantell. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/edward-loredo  Considering he takes phone calls, it would be worth it for someone to call in and confront Mantell on the con he's trying to pull.  No one is upset with Mantell for running a hustle. That's what hustlers do. People are surprised by Meltzer and Alvarez pimping for the hustler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Les Thatcher praised the concept to high heaven on PWInsider audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 On a side note CHAZ TAYLOR is now being advertised as one of the participants!!!! Didn't he feud with Mantell in Global? I haven't really watched non Philly or IWAMS or XCW indy wrestling in any serious way since the DVDVR 500 days and I still know five of the currently 10 advertised participants (assuming that is the Chris Steele who used to work for Oates Bros promotions), I have seen maybe 12 guys work the Doomsday gimmick in TN/LA/MS area so it's possible that I'm familiar with this one too. Which would make me knowledgeable of 6 of the ten. Â Beer! Polka! (or Polko if you like) Here comes the judge Karl Killer Kox! Chaz Taylor! Three days of indy wrestling! Barbeque coookoff! Nagelshlagen (contest to see who can hit a nail into a tree stump with least amount of hammer swings)!!! I allways prefer cover versions of Beatles tunes to their originals anyway! Beer garden! Â Â ROADTRIP!!!!! Â Already going to Nashville for the Nashville Coliseum memorial show but this feels like a good additional wrestling roadtrip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kronos Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Polka! (or Polko if you like) Random, but I have seen Brave Combo live, back when I lived in Dallas (Fall 2003, I want to say it was). Â I didn't know the first thing about Polka, but it kicked all kinds of ass. They were fun, and we danced for hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Yeah I'm familiar with them. they recorded with tiny Tim at one point. More goofball polka than traditional polka. Â Chaz Taylor v Johnny Mantell being "judged" by fetishists. Â http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uXUVV6Tf94 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 From the WON  The John Lusk (Cowboy Johnny Mantell) tournament took place over the weekend. This was where independent wrestlers across the country paid to get in, where they would work matches with winners and losers, but then after the matches there would be a judging panel who would pick who advanced based on who was the better worker. They had hoped for several hundred participants but it ended being 44 wrestlers who paid several hundred dollars to participate and be evaluated. The list of judges wasn’t the number of major names advertised, but they did have Iceman King Parsons, Tugboat Taylor, Chris Youngblood, Buck Robley, Awesome Kong (not the woman wrestler but the WCW wrestler from the Kongs tag team of the early 90s), Harley Race, Mantell, Mando Guerrero and long-time referee James Beard along with Pro Wrestling NOAH General Manager Ryu Nakada, so they were at least seen by top people from NOAH. Tim Storm, a long-time Texas indie wrestler was declared the winner by a 2-1 split decision over Florida independent wrestler Kahagas, who brought in manager Rico Casanova. Storm was given a championship belt and a trip to the induction ceremony on 5/21 at the Amsterdam, NY, based Pro Wrestling Hall of Fame. Also in the final eight were Chaz Taylor, who wrestled for Global in the early 90s and is a longtime Texas indie veteran, J-Rocc of Cleveland, Kevin Douglas, Jason Jones, a Carolinas wrestler who has trained in Japan with NOAH, Exile and Jeremy Young. It was part of a major Germanfest in Montague County, Texas, and there were as many as 4,500 to 5,000 people watching the matches on 4/30. The finals were down because of bad weather, as there was a storm that delayed the outdoor event several hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Considering the time Dave and Bryan spent about this a few months ago when they had Mantell on, and the discussion of "scam vs. not a scam" that was taking place, you'd think they'd have more to say about it considering so much of what Mantell was promising failed to come through, as most reasonable people assumed when this first started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 So, what're the odds he ever even contacted the name judges who weren't there? Â Honestly I'm shocked he delivered Race and Nakata, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 It would be interesting to contact one of the 44 wrestlers about their experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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