puropotsy Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 Dylan and I were chatting about Goldust and whether he could have had a push to World Title level in 1996 WWF. He was pushed really hard initally with the gimmick being showcased. I can't imagine the gimmick being any hotter than it was at Royal Rumble 1996 given how long he had been in at that point. From there, Hall wasn't really willing to work with him further which could have hurt his momentum. He had a high profile match with Roddy Piper at Wrestlemania that year but was pretty much comedy from that point forward. Perhaps if he had continued to be put over people strong, and even still losing the IC title to someone like Ahmed Johnson, he could have been pushed to the point where he would have done well as World champ for a couple months, being the one to win it from Shawn Michaels instead of Sid at Survivor Series. The gimmick was creative enough and controversial enough to really grab some attention. People I knew that year had just started watching wrestling again and were saying that he was their favorite (at least until the big Steve Austin push at the end of the year). And the visual of the belt from that era with the gold outfit would have been cool too. What do people think? I know that there were outlying influences such as Dustin being injured as well as developing some addictions at that point but do people think it could have worked from a booking standpoint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 20, 2011 Report Share Posted February 20, 2011 As we discussed last night I think two big things hurt him. The first was Hall's homophobia. If Hall works with him and the program gets hot it is possible that Dust beats him clean in a blowoff before Hall leaves for WCW. I think the fact that he worked Piper in such a high profile match says that the company had a lot of faith in him as a character but in some ways that match was sort of the high water mark of the character. If he had won a big program with Hall he would have had more momentum. Another thing that hurt him in my view was Foley getting over as well as he did working a sort of personality disorder style gimmick. yes it was a wildly different gimmick but the framework of the gimmick was similar and I think in the long term in order for Goldust to have maximized potential they needed to be really explicit about the various faces of Dustin and not in the horrible gimmick killing way that they did. I'm not saying there wasn't room for two characters like that on the roster but it would have been hard to execute well and I think it is something that Vince would never do anyhow. Goldust did get a run of house show maches against Shawn that I remember getting pretty mixed reviews at the time. Shawn's reign really suffered from a lack of credible and interesting challengers and you get the feeling that he would have been a lot better off working Goldust in a multi-ppv program than DBS but I doubt Shawn would have been willing to make it work for reasons not disimilar from what we saw with Hall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Goldust was the biggest wasted gimmick of the late 90's, mostly because it was too complicated to handle for WWF. Hall didn't want to work with him. The Piper program would have been great if Goldust hadn't been squashed by an old homophobic Piper in one match without Dust ever getting some heat back. And the supposed lesbian angle between Marlena and Sable was squashed because Bret was unconfortable with this if I remember right. It was just too hard to play with this stuff, although it could have been fascinating. By the fall of 96 the Goldust character was already way tamer than he was supposed to be, and although he was still very over as a face, the Ross interview exposing Goldust as a "good father happy husband with a wonderful little girl he loves so much" just killed it dead. God I hated that. Goldust sure didn't need to be a multi-personnality gimmick, the character was complex enough on its own, no need to throw Dustin into the mix, at least not until the character would have been overused. Could Goldust have gotten a title reign ? Probbaly not in this setting, but man it would have been great to see major programs with the original Goldust character. In a way they ruined Goldust kinda like they ruined Doink earlier in the decade, although Goldust had main event potential. I dreamed of a Goldust vs Ric Flair match back then. I guess Goldust came too early. If he had debuted 2 years later during the Attitude era, it might have been a different story, as he would have been way more easier to get away with "controversial" stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 He had no chance in hell. There's no need to put the title on that kind of gimmick anyway. I know Goldust is popular around these parts, but you have to be realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 He had no chance in hell. There's no need to put the title on that kind of gimmick anyway. I know Goldust is popular around these parts, but you have to be realistic. I agree with this. Goldust could have been a fun challenger and a program with Michaels would have been good, but I think the gimmick was too over the top to carry the company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 oh man I forgot about the Marlena/Sable lesbian angle I think they only did that one bit on RAW where Marlena was winking at her. I don't think it went any further than that and they were persistent in trying to get Rena Mero to do lesbian storylines, weren''t they? This was the first of many Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 He had no chance in hell. There's no need to put the title on that kind of gimmick anyway. I know Goldust is popular around these parts, but you have to be realistic. I agree with this. Goldust could have been a fun challenger and a program with Michaels would have been good, but I think the gimmick was too over the top to carry the company. I agree that he was NEVER going to be the face of the company but that is entirely different than asking whether or not he could have become a legit champion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Kane had the belt for like 24 hours once and his thing at the time was "that guy beneath Undertaker doing a soap opera evil brother angle". Goldust could have held the belt for a day I guess, though I would still say it was a longshot. I agree that he was never going to be a face of the company type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Kane had the belt for like 24 hours once and his thing at the time was "that guy beneath Undertaker doing a soap opera evil brother angle". Goldust could have held the belt for a day I guess, though I would still say it was a longshot. I agree that he was never going to be a face of the company type. That's actually exactly what I thought when I was talking about Goldust coming up during the Attitude Era being different. Of course Goldust would have never been the Man nor carry the company, but a transitionnal heel champ, why the hell not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Goldust lusting after a Playgirl posing "Boy Toy/Heartbreak Kid" is really a no-brainer feud and he may have been the one heel who could get the male 18-34 demo fully behind Shawn. Problem is I don't think Shawn would have been down with that and it would have been too similar to the Razor feud. Maybe Dustin would have had a chance for a bigger run during the Attitude era if he didn't have weight/injury/drug problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Shawn really seemed to enjoy working with Goldust. I could be mixing it up with an Apter mag but I remember WWF magazine running an article about a ladder match they had at a house show. Which is an unusual thing for WWF magazine to acknowledge. They did get a mini tv feud in September or October. I think the biggest botch with the initial Goldust run was jumping the gun with Ahmed beating him at King of the Ring. That should of happened much later. After that he meandered around. Feuding with Mero then with Undertaker again back to Mero. Personally I liked the Artist Formerly Known as/preacher era. Thought it did a good rebuilding Goldust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Goldust lusting after a Playgirl posing "Boy Toy/Heartbreak Kid" is really a no-brainer feud and he may have been the one heel who could get the male 18-34 demo fully behind Shawn. Problem is I don't think Shawn would have been down with that and it would have been too similar to the Razor feud. Shawn was way more homoerotic than Goldust ever was really when you think about it. Personally I liked the Artist Formerly Known as/preacher era. Thought it did a good rebuilding Goldust. Me too, but it's too bad it was booked by Russo, because the Val Venis angle made no sense at all. They had no notion of who was the face and the heel. The crowd wanted to cheer for the cool Val Venis character yet Ross was outraged at Terri's attitude, forgetting that Dustin dumped her and treated her like shit on TV a few months earlier. What a mess this was. With good booking it would have been a really interesting feud, as both worked well with each others. What did Goldust do after the Venis feud anyway ? A feud with Jarrett over striping Debra which made no sense whatsoever either. Then he got saddled with the Blue Meanie and Ryan Shamrock. God, the Attitude Era was terrible... I guess Goldust really only got rebuilt when he came back several years later and teamed with Booker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I don't understand why people like the Goldust gimmick so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Me too, but it's too bad it was booked by Russo, because the Val Venis angle made no sense at all. They had no notion of who was the face and the heel. The crowd wanted to cheer for the cool Val Venis character yet Ross was outraged at Terri's attitude, forgetting that Dustin dumped her and treated her like shit on TV a few months earlier. What a mess this was. Shades of grey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 He had no chance in hell. There's no need to put the title on that kind of gimmick anyway. I know Goldust is popular around these parts, but you have to be realistic. I agree with this. Goldust could have been a fun challenger and a program with Michaels would have been good, but I think the gimmick was too over the top to carry the company. I agree that he was NEVER going to be the face of the company but that is entirely different than asking whether or not he could have become a legit champion. Why would you have Goldust winning the belt? What would it accomplish? And why wouldn't you choose one of the other options available at that time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I don't understand why people like the Goldust gimmick so much. Dustin Rhodes in a golden bodysuit portraying a glamourous manipulative sex-freak with a tiny female with huge boobs smoking a cigar at his side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I don't understand why people like the Goldust gimmick so much. Dustin Rhodes in a golden bodysuit portraying a glamourous manipulative sex-freak with a tiny female with huge boobs smoking a cigar at his side. I would add to this that he was also a movie buff who quoted films in the context of his feuds and even dressed like an Academy award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I don't understand why people like the Goldust gimmick so much. Dustin Rhodes in a golden bodysuit portraying a glamourous manipulative sex-freak with a tiny female with huge boobs smoking a cigar at his side. I would add to this that he was also a movie buff who quoted films in the context of his feuds and even dressed like an Academy award. I didn't mention the Academy Award stuff because I never realized it before someone mentionned it a few weeks ago in some thread. But yeah, awesome promos. But I'd add the amazing intro, probably one of the best ever produced by WWF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 He had no chance in hell. There's no need to put the title on that kind of gimmick anyway. I know Goldust is popular around these parts, but you have to be realistic. I agree with this. Goldust could have been a fun challenger and a program with Michaels would have been good, but I think the gimmick was too over the top to carry the company. I agree that he was NEVER going to be the face of the company but that is entirely different than asking whether or not he could have become a legit champion. Why would you have Goldust winning the belt? What would it accomplish? And why wouldn't you choose one of the other options available at that time? I didn't say I would have him win the belt. The issue to me - more so than the actual question of whether or not he could have been champ - is whether or not he was booked in such a way to maximize his talents and the character itself. I probably would never have given him the belt, but then I probably would never have given Shawn the belt either or a lot of other guys for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puropotsy Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 He had no chance in hell. There's no need to put the title on that kind of gimmick anyway. I know Goldust is popular around these parts, but you have to be realistic. I agree with this. Goldust could have been a fun challenger and a program with Michaels would have been good, but I think the gimmick was too over the top to carry the company. I agree that he was NEVER going to be the face of the company but that is entirely different than asking whether or not he could have become a legit champion. Why would you have Goldust winning the belt? What would it accomplish? And why wouldn't you choose one of the other options available at that time? I didn't say I would have him win the belt. The issue to me - more so than the actual question of whether or not he could have been champ - is whether or not he was booked in such a way to maximize his talents and the character itself. I probably would never have given him the belt, but then I probably would never have given Shawn the belt either or a lot of other guys for that matter. I think giving Goldust the belt at the time is questionable, but having had him headline a pay-per-view like Mankind did would have been really great. And the gimmick was fantastic at the time. I really liked him quoting movies early on, especially the night after he won the Intercontinental title from Razor and they had a promo with him quoting Judy Garland from "A Star Is Born" with "They like me! They really like me!" It was a creative gimmick that was really attention-grabbing and he was a really good worker. The biggest problem was that they didn't book him to allow him to work, they went with screw-jobs. As far as what Goldust did after the Venis feud, he did win the Intercontinental title from Venis (the feud was basically over already) and then dropped it to Road-Dogg and was then in the 4-way for the IC title at Wrestlemania 15. The last thing I remember of him in WWF after that was the Owen tribute show. I believe he was gone shortly after and then appeared in WCW in the fall of 1999. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Shawn really seemed to enjoy working with Goldust. I could be mixing it up with an Apter mag but I remember WWF magazine running an article about a ladder match they had at a house show. Which is an unusual thing for WWF magazine to acknowledge. You're not mixing it up with an Apter mag, it was definitely a WWF magazine. I remember being surprised and at the time thinking how cool it was that they had a ladder match in Toronto (it stood out big time since ladder matches felt like a rare thing in 1996). I know it's online now via handheld, but I haven't seen it yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Morris Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I agree that Goldust getting a main event run against the top guy would have been a good idea had the WWF been willing to go all the way with the character. No, he was never a character that you would actually put the top title on, but that doesn't mean you can't make him a strong challenger for the top title. And by doing that, you have somebody who can help to prepare wrestlers who would be ideal candidates to become the top guy at some point... which I suspect WWF was thinking about doing when they did the program with Ahmed Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I don't understand why people like the Goldust gimmick so much. Dustin Rhodes in a golden bodysuit portraying a glamourous manipulative sex-freak with a tiny female with huge boobs smoking a cigar at his side. It sounds so much better decontructed than it was on screen. All I can remember is Goldust boring the shit out of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 One thing that's a side tangent to this is that Dust's "hot run" came at a time when the WWF was moving from Dynastic Face Champ (or at least the quest of it) to Bounce The Title Around: 01/23/84 Hogan 02/05/88 Andre (someone needs to get it off Hulk) 03/27/88 Savage (place holder until Hulk was back) 04/02/89 Hogan 04/01/90 Warrior (next dynasty... failed) 01/19/91 Sarge (bridge champ) 03/24/91 Hogan 11/27/91 Taker (PPV angle) 12/03/91 Hogan 01/19/92 Flair (bridge) 04/05/92 Savage (sorta dynasty attempt with Hogan gone... failed) 09/01/92 Flair (bridge) 10/12/92 Bret (dynasty... failed) 04/04/93 Yoko (insta-bridge) 04/04/93 Hogan 06/13/93 Yoko (bridge) 03/20/94 Bret (dynasty re-attempt) 11/23/94 Bob (bridge) 11/26/94 Nash (dynasty... failed) 11/19/95 Bret (bridge for a change) 03/31/96 Shawn (dynasty... ) While the title was moving around more from 1992-95 than it had in the past, there was a clear attempt to create a Dynastic Face Champ: Bret, Nash and now Shawn were the clearest. That leaves out the Lex Express, and of course comes after the earlier Warrior one failed. Real bounce around started as the Monday Night Wars heated up. I wouldn't call Shawn-Sid-Shawn one, as it was similar to Hogan-Yoko-Hogan: the goal was short term to pop the Rumble. Problem was after it: they were going back to Shawn-Bret, Bret getting his win back... and the wheels came off. Shawn's smile rather than dropping it to Sid (to set up Sid-Taker for the title at Mania). The Final Four --> Sid mess. Taker's run seemed set up to have Bret get it off him, and then all that other mess. The company wasn't really of the mentality to do a one day turn around like they did in 1998 with Austin --> Kane --> Austin, then going off the charts at the end of 1998 on into 1999. Dust came along during Shawn's Dynasty run. It just wasn't the time when they had the mentality to do it. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 Who came up with the Goldust character anyways? It was such a 180 from everything he'd done before, was it his idea? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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