goodhelmet Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 No love for Special Delivery Jones or Koko Ware? Also, are you really ranking Kamala above Scorpio? Will I understand this people thinking Kamala is good thing by the end of the Watts set? That isn't a list in order of great black wrestlers. Just a random list for people to think about. Obviously, Koko should be on the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted April 18, 2011 Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 How about Norman Smiley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negro Suave Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Where would people rank D-Lo Brown? Lower Middle of the pack. My buddy, Negro Suave at DVDVR was working on a black wrestler list for a comp and here is a list of guys he could think of off the top of his head... Butch Reed Ron Simmons Kamala Booker T The Rock The Gangstas Jazz Ahmed Johnson JYD D. Lo Brown Scorpio Abdullah the butcher Ernie Ladd Tony Atlas Godfather Big Daddy V Mark Henry Jay Lethal Shelton Benjamin Ron Killings Lashley Pope Monty Brown MVP Digging this topic back up because it is a pet project of mine That was a list off the top of my head and I am still working on refining it. Koko and SD are def included. Norman Smiley I think should also be included as well as Bobo Brazil. Problem with Bobo Brazil is that the stuff that is easy to find is very late in his career he looks like an old old man. As far as ranking them, I'd be hard pressed to put someone over The Rock but I would definately put Reed over Scorpio. Please feel free to keep adding to this as I am still trying to come up with a finalized list for this comp. Aja Kong, is one I hadn't considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricR Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 List needs more Porkchop Cash. And also, surprised to not see Iceman King Parsons on there since we just saw a bunch of him on the Texas set. Brickhouse Brown has popped up on the 80s sets as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I'm not a huge Rocky Johnson fan but he should be on the set somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 I think if Shelton were booked better he would have been one of the best, like top five best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJH Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 It's actually kind of... weird to think of how small the number of black workers is on a "greatest wrestlers ever" list. I mean, women's wrestling is pretty much relegated to a small group, two close generations of workers in one country more or less, and you'd find half a dozen, at least, somewhere near the top. Basketball, football (both), baseball, track; so many sports have equal numbers of black/white great players if not a dominance of black players, so what gives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Probably a multitude of reasons, really. Racism is definitely on the list of reasons why black wrestlers haven't had an equal cup of success in wrestling. I think the racism extends just as much to the fans as it does/did to promoters and workers alike. The ladder of superstardom is not as easily attained in professional wrestling as it is in other sports, like the aforementioned baseball, football, and basketball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 It' Basketball, football (both), baseball, track; so many sports have equal numbers of black/white great players if not a dominance of black players, so what gives? "See, that's what I was talking bout." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 22, 2011 Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Probably a multitude of reasons, really. Racism is definitely on the list of reasons why black wrestlers haven't had an equal cup of success in wrestling. I think the racism extends just as much to the fans as it does/did to promoters and workers alike. The ladder of superstardom is not as easily attained in professional wrestling as it is in other sports, like the aforementioned baseball, football, and basketball. I think more racism from inside the business than from the fans. Promoters/bookers/wrestlers play to the racism of the fans. They also play to their own racism looking for reasons to avoid developing/pushing black wrestlers. If it wasn't proven before, Rock pretty much ended the myth that wrestling fans all of the country wouldn't get behind a black wrestler. But I think long before that the myth should have been dead. Blacks in other forms of entertainment have been wildly "cross over" popular for decades. In turn, taking the fake-sport to real-sport comp, black athletes have done big business in sports through the years. Wrestling has always been like the mafia: a closed business where the "us" is protected. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Another factor is that for years there weren't any real "wrestling schools" per se. You had to know one of the boys to get in and I get the feeling that most of the boys weren't exactly multiculturalists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 That might have a little to do with it but it was mainly racism. The blacks that did get in were either savages or shucking n' jiving. They weren't exactly encouraged to work main event style... whatever that means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Paul Kersey Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 What about Cheex? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Oh crap, we forgot Clive Myers and The Sunshine Boys, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 I cannot believe I forgot Clive Myers. His match against Steve Grey might be the best WOS match of all-time. While it is the only WOS I have ever seen, my brain cannot fathom any other match from that promotion ever topping that particular November 1975 match between them. Hence my excitement for the England 80s DVDVR set. I won't go too far into yet another Marine story, but one of my better friends in the Corps was a black guy from North Carolina. He always insisted he was a better worker than Ric Flair. I always found that interesting. If Flair were black, would he still be the Flair we know today? I mean, in other sports athletic ability transcended the race barrier in the 70s when Flair first broke into the business. Flair really broke out in the 80s when the race barrier was further pushed back. Could working quality outshine racism in America in the 1980s to a Flair like level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJH Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 You'd've thought someone would've pushed a black wrestler (or a few) hard in the wake of Jackie Robinson or something, though, right? Hell, I'm amazed I haven't heard of a guy working as Jackie Luther/King. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Dale Martin/Joint Promotions probably pushed the most black wrestlers of any territory in the 70s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 You'd've thought someone would've pushed a black wrestler (or a few) hard in the wake of Jackie Robinson or something, though, right? Hell, I'm amazed I haven't heard of a guy working as Jackie Luther/King.There have been Abraham Washington and Black Jesus, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Crackers Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 I thought the tradition of wrestling promoters refusing to push black wrestlers started as a response to Jack Johnson in boxing. Didn't the success of the Gotch-Hackenschmidt coincide with the Jack Johnson title reign? The Comiskey Park battle came a year after the "Fight of the Century" between Johnson and Jeffries. Promoters knew that in wrestling they could always be sure there would be a white champion and as black athletes became more active in other spots I have no doubt that racist promoters wanted to maintain that tradition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 If Flair were black, would he still be the Flair we know today? I mean, in other sports athletic ability transcended the race barrier in the 70s when Flair first broke into the business. Flair really broke out in the 80s when the race barrier was further pushed back. Could working quality outshine racism in America in the 1980s to a Flair like level? I don't think so. How many territories had black stars headlining apart from Mid-south ? I can't see a black wrestler becoming Ric Flair in the 80's. There wasn't even a place for black transitionnal champion, like Butch Reed probably could have been. Hell, WWE still never had a black world champion, or am I so out of the loop I missed something ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Dale Martin/Joint Promotions probably pushed the most black wrestlers of any territory in the 70s. Off the top of my head, Clive Myers, Honeyboy Zimba, Johnny Kwango, Johnny Kincaid, Dave Bond, Kid Chocolate, Lenny Hurst, Jim Moser and Caswell Martin. That's not counting the Indian and Pakistani wrestlers they pushed, either, which you don't see much of in other territories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negro Suave Posted June 23, 2011 Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 I thought the tradition of wrestling promoters refusing to push black wrestlers started as a response to Jack Johnson in boxing. Didn't the success of the Gotch-Hackenschmidt coincide with the Jack Johnson title reign? The Comiskey Park battle came a year after the "Fight of the Century" between Johnson and Jeffries. Promoters knew that in wrestling they could always be sure there would be a white champion and as black athletes became more active in other spots I have no doubt that racist promoters wanted to maintain that tradition. This was my undestanding as well. I've also thought because of this there is no tradition that can be traced to the black community as far as this particular brand of entertainment. It really is one of the onlyforms of entertainment that doesn't have a strong black presence as far as america goes. And really that is as far as it goes, most other countries have their own tradition and africa goes by way of europe with not as many african wrestlers even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Hell, WWE still never had a black world champion, or am I so out of the loop I missed something ?Booker T, when he was doing the King Booka gimmick. The Rock, if you count a half-Samoan as black. Bobby Lashley, if you count the ECW belt as a "world title". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Hell, WWE still never had a black world champion, or am I so out of the loop I missed something ?Booker T, when he was doing the King Booka gimmick. The Rock, if you count a half-Samoan as black. Bobby Lashley, if you count the ECW belt as a "world title". Booker got the World Title ? Ok then, so he's the only one. The Rock doesn't count. And the ECW belt was not even on the level of the old IC belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted June 24, 2011 Report Share Posted June 24, 2011 Why doesn't the Rock count? Not black enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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