El-P Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 How in the world does Dave know how many pro wrestling fans bought UFC PPVs to see Brock Lesnar from 2008-2010? I bet he has friends who did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 No actually it's about the guy who drew more among PRO WRESTLING FANS for three straight years, 2008, 2009 and 2010 than anyone else. When reading this quote it reminds me of the survey done a few months back that surprisingly showed that pro wrestling fans are fans of more sports than MMA fans are. Should we toss on the ballot great American sports heels like Kobe Bryant, A-Rod and Michael Vick? Outside of the SummerSlam 2002 buyrate, Lesnar was really a bust as a draw as a professional wrestler. He was on top as WWE's business significantly contracted and was an expensive flop for New Japan. Based on his professional wrestler career, he's a horrible candidate. But you can't seriously expect a Pro Wrestling Hall Of Fame voted on predominantly by former and current pro wrestlers, and people whose views are heavily influenced by them, not to induct Lesnar. Lesnar will get in for the same reason that Angle got in and tomk has articulated so well in the past - pro wrestlers even today are legitimacy marks. Lesnar being in their Hall Of Fame legitimises them as real athletes and real life tough guys. When Lesnar left the business at WrestleMania XX in the manner that he did, he was despised by many of his jealous co-workers for walking out on the company and not appreciating the mega push that was handed to him on a silver platter, but when he won the UFC Heavyweight title many of those former enemies were publicly patting him on the back for a job well done, because it reflected well on their profession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 How in the world does Dave know how many pro wrestling fans bought UFC PPVs to see Brock Lesnar from 2008-2010? Exactly. Also, if we accept this statement as true, did Lesnar really draw more pro wrestling fans during that period than Cena? Sure, Lesnar headlined huge drawing shows, but only 6 in total over those years. Cena must have been the main draw (sorry, it's not just the brand, despite what Vince wants everyone to believe) for what, 25-30 PPV shows, at least, over that same stretch? Yes, they did not draw the monster numbers of the UFC shows (though the Mania's did), but even if Lesnar averaged 1 million buys for the 6 to total 6 million fans, and we assumed ALL of those fans were also pro wrestling fans (obviously not), a Cena average of, for example, 250,000 over 25 shows = 6.25 million fans (ALL pro wrestling fans). The Cena number is also being conservative. And, of course, this doesn't take into account the fans Cena drew to house shows over those years. Any way you look at it, there is NO WAY Lesnar drew more pro wrestling fans. I think Meltzer and others are so desperate to push through the whole MMA=Pro Wrestling agenda they have become totally delusional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 With so many deserving candidates and only so many votes to go aroundIsn't there no limit to the number of names people can choose? Same with WON HOF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 Didnt Phil or Dylan or someone do a Money Mayweather Gordy list on DVDR once? Let's update that as this is what it has come to. Heck when is Sonnen going on the ballot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 With so many deserving candidates and only so many votes to go aroundIsn't there no limit to the number of names people can choose? Same with WON HOF. There is a limit. Ten performers. Non-performers are unlimited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 No actually it's about the guy who drew more among PRO WRESTLING FANS for three straight years, 2008, 2009 and 2010 than anyone else. Oh for fuck's sake. Who do you think accounted for hundreds of thousands of those buys on every Lesnar show? NFL fans? University of Minnesota students from 1999? Who gives a shit. Brock is drawing fans to MMA. Not to pro wrestling. Re-open an MMA HOF if you give a rats ass about what's drawing in MMA. Should that count. No. I'm leaving that to the voters. Horse shit. You're pimping him with what you wrote here. That pimping is the #1 driver of HOF candidates, and always has been. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 It's a shame there isn't a central local for serious HoF talk over the course of the year. Not saying it could offset Dave's pimping but at least the other side could get a hearing with a broader portion of the voting base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 It was attempted at WC. It failed, largely because Dave ran away from discussions that had critical thinking about his views. But also because the HOF is so flooded with voters that the only common link is: "They read the WON" On some level. You're never going to have a central discussion place with those voters since they aren't going to read blogs/boards/massive discussion threads. Ain't happening. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted October 24, 2011 Report Share Posted October 24, 2011 I think the best place for him to post some of this nonsense is the F4W board, because I'd have to think that an extremely low percentage of HOF voters actually read what he writes over there (unless it is dragged elsewhere, like here). He's largely kept his feelings about the nominees out of the WON in recent years, so it's possible few people even know his opinions on Edge or Lesnar at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 His opinions about nominees are in the WON every year: The Assassins (Tom Renesto & Jody Hamilton) came one vote short of going in after being close last year as well. The Assassins, who were considered along with Pat Patterson & Ray Stevens to be the best tag team of the 60s, with success in a number of territories both as The Assassins and as the Masked Bolos, Schmidt played a post-World War II German who was a strong drawing card from 1953 to 1959, rating as high as the No. 3 draw in the business in 1955 My own personal pick as the strongest candidate on the ballot, Lou Albano, one of the lynchpins of the WWWF from 1970 to 1985 as a manager, I'd have to pull over even more for Torres, but it's easy to see what he thinks. Batista drawing more money than anyone on the ballot... There's a lot of shit there which is clearly Dave's opinion on candidates. That's even before we get to historical pieces like the recent one on drawing. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Wait. Dave thinks Albano is the strongest candidate on the ballot????? Does that not strike EVERYONE as a major "WTF?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 We've talked about that in the past. Tom has gone around in circle on the Big 3 / Albano The Anchor concept. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 How in the world does Dave know how many pro wrestling fans bought UFC PPVs to see Brock Lesnar from 2008-2010? I bet he has friends who did it. No...they watched via a stream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 We've talked about that in the past. Tom has gone around in circle on the Big 3 / Albano The Anchor concept. John Yeah I went around looking for help on that and didn't get much outside of bert on classics. Assuming the information he provided was correct from 1970 to Backlund winning title results taken from Cawthorne's site. So goes MSG, so goes the fed Or whatever the quote is. I will color the shows where I don't know who managed in red. For 1970, we have 8 MSGs listed from this period. Sammartino wrestles in singles matches in 7 of them. We know that Albano started managing with Crusher Verdu. Of those shows we only know that Albano managed two. I don't know who was managing before. Bobby Shane? I really know little about 70s WWWF, outside what I was told by Philly kitchen staff I used to work with. We would go to ECW shows together, where they'd tell me how much Tommy Dreamer was real like Bruno. 1970 Albano manages minimum of two singles challenges to world title WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 19, 1970 (16,858) WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino pinned Ivan Koloff at 18:10 after a double reverse back flip body-hold WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 9, 1970 (14,328) WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Karl Kovacs at 16:45 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - June 15, 1970 (20,819; sell out; new attendance record) Crusher Verdu (w/ Lou Albano) defeated WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino at 22:43 when referee Edward Gersh stopped the bout as a result of a gash over Sammartino's eye WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - July 10, 1970 (20,982; sell out; new attendance record) WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Crusher Verdu at 15:11 (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - August 1, 1970 (17,864) WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino & Victor Rivera defeated WWWF International Tag Team Champions the Mongols via disqualification at 10:22 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - September 14, 1970 (17,232) WWWF International Tag Team Champion Bepo Mongol defeated WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino via count-out at 14:24 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 23, 1970 (17,491) WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated WWWF International Tag Team Champion Bepo Mongol at 14:30 in a Texas Death Match WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - November 16, 1970 (15,107) WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Bulldog Brower at 18:55 when referee Dick Kroll stopped the bout due to a cut on the challenger's forehead 1971. We Have 10 MSGs from 71. Koloff beats Sammartino. Morales Beats Koloff. Uncertain about who manages on 3 shows Albano manages heels in at minimum 6 singles matches with World champ, one tag match with world champ. WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 18, 1971 (21,666) Ivan Koloff pinned WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino with a bodyslam and knee drop off the top rope to win the title at 14:55 after kicking the champion in the face as he charged into the corner (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - February 8, 1971 US Champion Pedro Morales pinned WWWF World Champion Ivan Koloff to win the title at 23:18 kicking off the top turnbuckle as Koloff had him in a waist lock, with both men falling backwards and having their shoulders down, but Morales lifting his at the count of 2; after the bout, Bruno Sammartino came out to congratulate Morales on his win (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 15, 1971 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned Blackjack Mulligan at 14:12 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - May 24, 1971 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned Tarzan Tyler at 14:12 (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - June 21, 1971 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned Luke Graham at 15:28 (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - July 24, 1971 (21,912; sell out) WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales & Gorilla Monsoon defeated WWWF International Tag Team Champions Luke Graham & Tarzan Tyler in a Best 2 out of 3 Falls match at 20:13; fall #1: the champions were disqualified; fall #2: Tyler pinned Monsoon; fall #3: Morales pinned Tyler (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - August 30, 1971 Stan Stasiak defeated WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales at 19:51 when referee Danny Bartfield stopped the bout due to blood WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 25, 1971 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned Stan Stasiak at 12:45 in a Texas Death Match WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - November 15, 1971 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated Pacific Coast Champion Freddie Blassie when referee Terry Terranova stopped the match due to blood at 8:24 (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - December 6, 1971 (sell out) WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated Pacific Coast Champion Freddie Blassie at 7:14 in a Roman Gladiator match when the challenger was deemed unable to continue (ALBANO) 1972 12 MSGs listed. I have very little info on 1972. Albano manages heel in at least three singles matches with world champ. WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 31, 1972 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated Professor Toru Tanaka via disqualification when the challenger attempted to throw salt into Morales' eyes but instead hit the referee by mistake WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - February 21, 1972 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned Prof. Toru Tanaka after coming off the top WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 13, 1972 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned Baron Mikel Scicluna (w/ Lou Albano) at 11:34 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - April 17, 1972 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned King Curtis after coming off the top (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - May 22, 1972 WWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned Pampero Firpo at 15:21 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - June 2, 1972 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated Luke Graham (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - July 1, 1972 (19,512) WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned George Steele at 14:59 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - July 29, 1972 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated the Spoiler WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - September 2, 1972 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned Ernie Ladd at 15:50 Bruno Sammartino defeated George Steele at 12:29; after the bout, it was announced that Sammartino would face Pedro Morales for the title at Shea Stadium WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 16, 1972 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales & Bruno Sammartino defeated WWWF Tag Team Champions Prof. Toru Tanaka & Mr. Fuji in a Best 2 out of 3 falls match, 2-0; fall #2: the challengers won via disqualification WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - November 27, 1972 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated Ray Stevens at 11:58 when referee Danny Bartfield stopped the bout, ruling the challenger could not continue Verne Gagne defeated Buddy Wolfe WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - December 18, 1972 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned Ray Stevens with a sunset flip at 14:10 after the challenger thought he had won the bout with a Boston Crab 1973 Stasiak beats Morales, Sammartino beats Stasiak. The Grand Wizard shows up, again we have too little information 11 MSG's listed Grand Wizard manages heels in singles matches with world champ at minimum 5 times Don't know anything about Albano during this year WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 15, 1973 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned Moondog Mayne with a flying bodypress WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - February 26, 1973 AWA World Champion Verne Gagne defeated Eddie Graham (sub. for Ray Stevens) at 14:35 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated King Curtis at 5:37 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 26, 1973 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated Fred Blassie when the challenger was deemed unable to continue WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - April 30, 1973 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated Don Leo Jonathan (w/ the Grand Wizard) when referee Eddie Gersh stopped the bout due to blood following a right hand punch from the champion that opened up the challenger's forehead WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - June 4, 1973 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned Don Leo Jonathan (w/ the Grand Wizard) with a reverse cradle as the challenger attempted a backdrop WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - June 30, 1973 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated George Steele when the match was stopped due to blood at 8:16 after Morales repeatedly rammed Steele's face into the turnbuckles and punched him; after the bout, Steele attacked the champion until Morales gained the upper hand and chased Steele from ringside WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - July 23, 1973 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated George Steele; Joe Louis was the special referee for the bout WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - August 27, 1973 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated Stan Stasiak via judges desicion at the 52 minute mark (WIZARD) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 15, 1973 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated Stan Stasiak in a Texas Death Match at 7:36 (WIZARD) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - November 12, 1973 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated Larry Hennig at 12:45 when the match was stopped due to blood WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - December 10, 1973 Pedro Morales defeated Larry Hennig in a lumberjack death match; the bout was to have been a title rematch from the previous month's event Bruno Sammartino pinned WWWF World Champion Stan Stasiak at 12:35 to win the title (WIZARD) 1974 We have 11 MSG's listed The Grand Wizard manages the heel in singles matches with world champion 5 times Blassie manages heel in singles matches with world champion 2 times Albano manages heels in 0 known singles matches with world champ. Albano manages heel tag team in match with world champ 2 times. I assume team of Blassie and Volkoff didn't have a manager but I'm not going to add it to Blassies total. WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 14, 1974 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Don Leo Jonathon (WIZARD) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 4, 1974 (sell out) WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino fought Nikolai Volkoff to a curfew draw after 53 minutes (BLASSIE) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - April 1, 1974 (sell out) WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino pinned Nikolai Volkoff at 13:08 (BLASSIE) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - April 29, 1974 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino (w/ Arnold Skaaland) fought Killer Kowalski to a no contest at 24:15 (WIZARD) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - May 20, 1974 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino pinned Killer Kowalski at 18:14 in a Texas Death Match (WIZARD) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - June 24, 1974 (sell out) WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino & Chief Jay Strongbow defeated Freddie Blassie & Nikolai Volkoff in a Best 2 out of 3 falls match, 2-0; fall #1 - Sammartino & Strongbow won via disqualification; fall #2 - Sammartino pinned Blassie (Blassie's last wrestling match at MSG) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - July 22, 1974 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated John Tolos with a backbreaker at 15:29 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Squre Garden - August 26, 1974 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino & Chief Jay Strongbow fought WWWF Tag Team Champions Jimmy & Johnny Valiant to a draw when the bout was stopped due to the curfew (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 7, 1974 (over 22,000) WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino & Chief Jay Strongbow defeated WWWF Tag Team Champions Jimmy & Johnny Valiant in a Best 2 out of 3falls match; fall #1: the Valiants won; fall #2: the challengers won via disqualification; fall #3: the champions won (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - November 18, 1974 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino fought Bobby Duncum to a no contest (WIZARD) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - December 16, 1974 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Bobby Duncum in a Texas Death Match (WIZARD) 1975 We have 12 MSGs listed The Wizard is nowhere to be seen in the world title picture Blassie manages heels in 5 singles matches with world champ Albano manages heels in 5 singles matches with world champ, manages heels in 1 tag match with world champ and is in 1 handicap match with world champ WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 20, 1975 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino & Chief Jay Strongbow defeated WWWF Tag Team Champions Jimmy & Johnny Valiant in a Best 2 out of 3 falls match, winning a fall via disqualification (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - February 17, 1975 Spiros Arion defeated WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino via disqualification at 13:00 (BLASSIE) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 17, 1975 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino vs. Spiros Arion (BLASSIE) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - April 14, 1975 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Spiros Arion in a Greek Death (Arion managed by BLASSIE) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - May 19, 1975 Waldo Von Erich defeated WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino when the match was stopped due to blood (BLASSIE) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - June 16, 1975 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino (w/ Arnold Skaaland) pinned Waldo Von Erich (w/ Freddie Blassie) at 4:12 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - July 12, 1975 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino fought George Steele to a curfew draw at 46:11 (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - August 9, 1975 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated George Steele (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - September 6, 1975 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Buggsy McGraw & Lou Albano in a handicap match at 18:23 (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 13, 1975 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino fought Ivan Koloff to a draw when the match was stopped due to blood at 21:59; (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - November 17, 1975 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Ivan Koloff via disqualification (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - December 15, 1975 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Ivan Koloff in a steel cage match by escaping through the door at 9:39 (ALBANO) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Verdu was the first guy that Albano managed so we'll go from there. WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - August 1, 1970 (17,864) WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino & Victor Rivera defeated WWWF International Tag Team Champions the Mongols via disqualification at 10:22 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - September 14, 1970 (17,232) WWWF International Tag Team Champion Bepo Mongol defeated WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino via count-out at 14:24 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 23, 1970 (17,491) WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated WWWF International Tag Team Champion Bepo Mongol at 14:30 in a Texas Death Match WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - November 16, 1970 (15,107) WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Bulldog Brower at 18:55 when referee Dick Kroll stopped the bout due to a cut on the challenger's forehead All Albano guys. 1971. WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 15, 1971 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned Blackjack Mulligan at 14:12 1972 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 31, 1972 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated Professor Toru Tanaka via disqualification when the challenger attempted to throw salt into Morales' eyes but instead hit the referee by mistake WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - February 21, 1972 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned Prof. Toru Tanaka after coming off the top WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - July 29, 1972 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated the Spoiler WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 16, 1972 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales & Bruno Sammartino defeated WWWF Tag Team Champions Prof. Toru Tanaka & Mr. Fuji in a Best 2 out of 3 falls match, 2-0; fall #2: the challengers won via disqualification 1973 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 15, 1973 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales pinned Moondog Mayne with a flying bodypress WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - February 26, 1973 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated King Curtis at 5:37 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - November 12, 1973 WWWF World Champion Pedro Morales defeated Larry Hennig at 12:45 when the match was stopped due to blood WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - December 10, 1973 Pedro Morales defeated Larry Hennig in a lumberjack death match; the bout was to have been a title rematch from the previous month's event 1974 was the true beginning of the 3 Wise Men movement so Albano got shifted to more tag teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 I had too many windows open and got confused so 1976 12 MSGs listed Grand Wizard manages heels in six singles matches with world champ and splits managerial duty with Albano for one tag match Blassie manages heels in three singles matches with world champ ( well he should've except the time Putski had to sit in for world champ) Albano manages heels in one singles match with world champ and splits managerial duty with Grand Wizard for one tag match with world champ WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 12, 1976 Superstar Billy Graham (w/ the Grand WIZARD) defeated WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - February 2, 1976 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Superstar Billy Graham at 17:55 when the match was stopped due to blood (WIZARD) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 1, 1976 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino pinned Ernie Ladd at 11:25 after the challenger missed a splash off the top; (NO MGR!) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 29, 1976 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino & WWWF Tag Team Champion Tony Parisi defeated Superstar Billy Graham & Ivan Koloff in a Best 2 out of 3 falls match (WIZARD/ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - April 26, 1976 Stan Hansen defeated WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino (BLASSIE) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - May 17, 1976 Stan Hansen defeated Ivan Putski (sub. for WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino) via count-out (BLASSIE) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - August 7, 1976 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Stan Hansen in a steel cage match (BLASSIE) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - September 4, 1976 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Bruiser Brody via disqualification at 16:19 (WIZARD) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 4, 1976 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino pinned Bruiser Brody in a Texas Death match at 14:45 (WIZARD) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 25, 1976 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino pinned Nikolai Volkoff (w/ Capt. Lou Albano) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - November 22, 1976 Stan Stasiak defeated WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino via count-out at 20:44 (WIZARD) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - December 20, 1976 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Stan Stasiak in a Sicilian Stretcher match at 17:12 (WIZARD) 1977 13 MSGs Billy Graham becomes champ Albano manages heels in 3 singles matches with world champ Blassie manages heel in 2 singles matches with world champ Wizard manages heel in 8 singles matches with world champion WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 17, 1977 Ken Patera defeated WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino via count-out (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York, NY - Madison Square Garden - February 7, 1977 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino fought Ken Patera to a draw in a Texas Death Match after the referee was knocked out (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 7, 1977 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Ken Patera when guest referee Gorilla Monsoon stopped the match due to blood loss (ALBANO) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - March 28, 1977 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Baron Von Raschke via disqualification at 17:35 (Blassie listed as heel manager) - CORRECT WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - April 25, 1977 WWWF World Champion Bruno Sammartino defeated Baron Von Raschke (BLASSIE) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - May 16, 1977 WWWF World Champion Superstar Billy Graham (w/ the Grand WIZARD) pinned Gorilla Monsoon WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - June 27, 1977 (22,090; 4,000 in Felt Forum) WWWF World Champion Superstar Billy Graham fought Bruno Sammartino to a double disqualification at 18:39 (WIZARD) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - August 1, 1977 Bruno Sammartino (w/ Arnold Skaaland) fought WWWF World Champion Superstar Billy Graham (w/ the Grand Wizard) to a draw at 13:05 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - August 29, 1977 WWWF World Champion Superstar Billy Graham defeated Ivan Putski via count-out at 18:01 (heel managed by Wizard) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - September 26, 1977 (22,102; 3,000 in Felt Forum) Dusty Rhodes defeated WWWF World Champion Superstar Billy Graham via count-out at 15:55 (WIZARD) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - October 24, 1977 WWWF World Champion Superstar Billy Graham pinned Dusty Rhodes in a Texas Death Match at 9:12 (WIZARD) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - November 21, 1977 (17,914) WWWF World Champion Superstar Billy Graham defeated Peter Maivia via count-out (WIZARD) WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - December 19, 1977 (22,085) Mil Mascaras (w/ Bob Backlund) defeated WWWF World Champion Superstar Billy Graham via referee's decision at 16:24 (WIZARD) 1978 I only asked about 78 till Backlund win So that's three shows, of course that's all Grand Wizard WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 23, 1978 WWWF World Champion Superstar Billy Graham (w/ the Grand Wizard) defeated Mil Mascaras (w/ Bob Backlund) via disqualification at 13:19 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - January 23, 1978 WWWF World Champion Superstar Billy Graham (w/ the Grand Wizard) defeated Mil Mascaras (w/ Bob Backlund) via disqualification at 13:19 WWWF @ New York City, NY - Madison Square Garden - February 20, 1978 (22,092; sell out) Bob Backlund pinned WWWF World Champion Superstar Billy Graham to win the title at 15:51 (WIZARD) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 His opinions about nominees are in the WON every year:I should have been more clear. Whereas in the past, Dave would go through each candidate one by one and list their positives and their negatives (and would also list his ballot), he doesn't do that anymore. There wasn't anything in the WON this year pushing strongly for Edge, for instance, but there was on the Board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Thanks a bunch Kris, I really couldn't find enough info on 70-73 period. So adding Kris's stuff 1970 8 MSG's with Albano managing heel in match with champ 6/8 1971 Albano manages heel in at minimum 8/10 matches with champ 1972 Albano manages heel in at minimum 7/12 1973 Albano manages heel in at minimum 3/11 Grand Wizard manages heel in at minimum 5/11 1974 Albano manages heel in 2/11 Blassie manages heel in 3/11 Wizard manages heel in 5/11 1975 Blassie manages heel in 5/12 Albano manages heel in 7/12 1976 Albano manages heel in 1.5/12 Blassie manages heel in 3/12 Wizard manages heel in 6.5/12 1977 Blassie manages heel in 2/13 Albano manages heel in 3/13 Wizard manages heel in 8/13 This is less intersting to me now than it was a year ago. Last year Meltzer was arguing that Albano "carried the heel side of the WWWF/WWF" for over a decade. That seemed like a ridiculous claim. "One of the lynchpins" feels like a lesser claim. Jiimy Hart "carried" the heel side in Memphis, Don Bass was one of the lynchpins. Gereal Skandor Akbar carried the heel side in midsouth for almost a decade, Grizzly Smith was one of the lynchpins. Also saw Cyndi Lauper live last year and she sang "Goonies R good enough" so I have positive vibes from that. Still since Albano's a lynchpin from 70-85, John and Kris, do you think you can do the Backlund era? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 If they can induct tag teams, why can't they induct the "Three Wise Men of the East" as a unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 why can't they induct the "Three Wise Men of the East" as a unit. Well, because they weren't a unit for 1. Just 3 guys who all worked for the same company and all 3 with very diffrent careers. Blassie's allready in anyways, 1st class in 96. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 why can't they induct the "Three Wise Men of the East" as a unit. Well, because they weren't a unit for 1. Not in a kayfabe sense, sure, but in a functional sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 When it came to the 3 Wise Men though Albano had way more heat than anyone else because of his character. Watch the old TV and there was hatred for Albano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Am I missing something or is Jimmy Hart not in the HoF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Wow... someone needs to look back at the original 1996 issue to check that. I could swear that he was in. That's... pretty odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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