Who from the 70s and 80 would have got world title runs ...

[JerryvonKramer]

Thought this might be worth discussing. Particularly interested in what sorts of people would have been in the mix in the Backlund and Race eras, late 70s / early 80s sort of time.

 

Later in the 80s, I think it goes without saying that DiBiase would have had a title run in 00s style booking. Probably Roddy Piper too.

[Loss]

Luger would have had quite a few before '91. Probably Earthquake in 1990. Barry Windham. Rick Rude around the turn of the decade possibly (more of an early 90s example). Ted DiBiase. In short, a lot more heels in the WWF and a lot more babyfaces in the NWA.

[JerryvonKramer]

I've almost set this up for Dylan to mention Ken Patera for the late 70s. I got the idea listening to their latest pod.

 

You say "more heels" Loss, but aside from DiBiase and Piper, I don't see ANY of the other heels getting runs in the 00s: Jake Robets, Mr. Perfect, Rick Rude. I don't see it.

 

WCW Rick Rude would have for sure. But not the 88-9 Rude.

 

Thinking Andre would be a 8-9-time world champ by the time of WM3.

[JerryvonKramer]

Around 82-3 sort of time I think Snuka and Slaughter may have both had runs.

 

Don Muraco may also have had a run in a sort of Batista role.

[Al]

Andre's a tough one to judge. How do you book a sometimes attraction in this era? Andre was quite successful in part because he wasn't overexposed.

 

Dusty Rhodes would've had a far longer run (or runs) as World Champion. I'm guessing Mil Mascaras probably sneaks in a run as well.

[Loss]

Andre's a tough one to judge. How do you book a sometimes attraction in this era? Andre was quite successful in part because he wasn't overexposed.

Probably similar to Undertaker's title runs, which have typically been short (or cut short).

 

Probably not the best comparison, but I've always compared Andre and Undertaker for some reason.

[jdw]

Basically everyone of note would have gotten world title reigns.

 

Race and Flair would have dropped it all over the place when they were touring.

 

One suspects that the WWWF/WWF would never have gotten to the Memphis level where a title change was needed in just about every Lawler program and fans in the Mid South Coliseum were seeing "history being made" ever week (when one includes the tag titles and other belts in the territory). But ones could see Backlund and Bruno doing 2-3 title turn arounds a year.

 

There are just too many names to name. In 00's style booking, Maivia takes the title from Bob when he turns. Graham takes the title when he comes back. Mil doesn't a turn around with Superstar when they had matches. Patera... Larry Z... Sarge... on and on.

 

John

[rzombie1988]

We'd be living in Graham era right now. Vince would crap his pants twice over to get someone with even half the interview skills and charisma of Graham. Mil would surely be a big star as well.

[jdw]

I laugh whenever I watch Graham interviews. Not because they're good, but because they're so mediocre and nosensical.

 

Vince would crap his pants at getting someone who could talk like *Dusty* in the WWWF. Check out the two long WWWF interviews Dusty did on the Dusty DVD that game out several years back. One at ringside at a TV taping, the other a sit down "empty arena" interview. Both with Vince. Dusty is off the chart, going off onto tangents but always reeling himself back into his theme. You can see Vince just blow the fuck away by it.

 

In comp, Superstar's interviews on his DVD just suck cock. Which is saying something since the WWE was combing through the vault to find the best ones it could to make Superstar look good. Just doped up nonsense, and not good doped up nonsense.

 

If one wants good charismatic doped up nonsense, check out Muraco getting interviewed by Kal in Philly. Now that was great nonsense.

 

Sorry for the rant. I just don't think Superstar holds up at all, and even in the context of the time, if Dusty was the A+ standard, Superstar lagged far behind. In the ring... yikes!

 

Cena has more charisma and is better on the mic than Superstar... and I'm hardly a big Cena fan.

 

John

[JerryvonKramer]

Basically everyone of note would have gotten world title reigns.

You say this but who really would have got runs after 1985? Let's just stick with WWF for now:

 

Greg Valentine NO

Tito Santana NO

Roddy Piper MAYBE

King Kong Bundy NO

Junkyard Dog NO

Bob Orton NO

Davey Boy Smith NO

The Dynamite Kid NO

Paul Orndorf MAYBE

Don Muraco MAYBE

Adrian Adonis NO

Jake Roberts NO

Hercules NO

Rick Martel NO

Tom Zenk NO

Jim Neidhart NO

Brutus Beefcake NO

Butch Reed HIGHLY VERY SLIGHT POSSIBILITY

Honky Tonk Man NO

Ron Bass NO

One Man Gang NO

Ken Patera MAYBE

Rick Rude NO

Bam Bam Bigelow HIGHLY DOUBTFUL

Ted DiBiase YES

Big Bossman NO

Dino Bravo NO

Bad News Brown NO

The Barbarian NO

The Warlord NO

Mr. Perfect NO

Arn Anderson NO

Tully Blanchard NO

Jim Duggan NO

Haku NO

 

 

I could go on and on. Only Dibiase seems to be a definite YES.

[Loss]

Paul Orndorff would have been a definite yes. Piper would have been a definite yes. Kamala and Bundy would have been strong possibilities. Even Perfect in '89 (while it would have bombed) would have been a possibility.

 

Also, why are you saying post-1985 now when you started this thread for the entire 70s and 80s?

[Log]

Davey Boy would've been a yes in 96 during the Michaels' feud. Hell, probably in 95 when he feuded with Bret.

[cm funk]

If you just look at the WWF/E title there's 40+ changes and by my count 19 different champions in the 00's

 

When Backlund was champ, first it would have gone back and forth with Graham a few times. Valentine definitely would have gotten the belt, considering they did as close to a title change as they could do with the title being held up between them. Slaughter would have won it at least once, Muraco too.

 

Piper and Orndorff both would have gotten the belt during the early Hogan years.

[Matt D]

Wahoo.

[Marty]

Looking at WWWF/WWF over the years:

- George Steele

- Killer Kowalski

- Chief Jay Strongbow

- Ken Patera

- Mil Mascaras

- Pat Patterson

- Stan Hansen

- Jimmy Snuka

- Sgt. Slaughter

- Roddy Piper

- Don Muraco

- Paul Orndorff

- Ted DiBiase

[JerryvonKramer]

Also, why are you saying post-1985 now when you started this thread for the entire 70s and 80s?

I was just picking up on jdw's point of "anyone notable". I think there are more candidates before 1985 than after it. That was sort of the point I was alluding to. i.e. during Hogan's big run I'm not sure anyone else other than Savage and DiBiase would have got a run.

[tomk]

Greg Valentine NO

Tito Santana NO

Roddy Piper MAYBE

King Kong Bundy NO

Junkyard Dog NO

Bob Orton NO

Davey Boy Smith NO

The Dynamite Kid NO

Paul Orndorf MAYBE

Don Muraco MAYBE

Adrian Adonis NO

Jake Roberts NO

Hercules NO

Rick Martel NO

Tom Zenk NO

Jim Neidhart NO

Brutus Beefcake NO

Butch Reed HIGHLY VERY SLIGHT POSSIBILITY

Honky Tonk Man NO

Ron Bass NO

One Man Gang NO

Ken Patera MAYBE

Rick Rude NO

Bam Bam Bigelow HIGHLY DOUBTFUL

Ted DiBiase YES

Big Bossman NO

Dino Bravo NO

Bad News Brown NO

The Barbarian NO

The Warlord NO

Mr. Perfect NO

Arn Anderson NO

Tully Blanchard NO

Jim Duggan NO

Haku NO

I don't get the nos here at all. Guys who are lower in the pecking order than Putski was in the seventies, have had world championships in last decade.

 

One of the goofy things in the discussions of Edge's HOF candidacy is people who cry "he was the #4 guy in the WWF, if he can't get in no one from the last decade can make it in".

 

Guys in the WON HOF Guys in the HOF who had featured roles in the WWE between 2000-2011:

 

1)Chris Benoit

2)Shawn Michaels

3)Kurt Angle

4)Undertaker

5)HHH

6)Eddie Guerrero

7)Rock

8 Chris Jericho

9)Rey Mysterio Jr

 

I'm choosing not to include Foley and Austin.

 

From the 2007-2011 period alone where Edge was in main event mix and multiple time champ he was booked below

 

HHH

Shawn Michaels

Undertaker

Jericho

Cena

Orton

Batista

 

If the guy who is booked as 9th or 13th most important guy in fed can be multiple time world champ, I don't see how Duggan gets dismissed as a no.

 

Kane and Bog Show have been multiple time champs.

 

From the thread about wrestler of the year I wrote on the 24th

 

QUOTE

 

There have been 1758 between 2008 and today.

 

Cena has only held the world championship belt 285 days

Same period HHH held it 280 days

Randy Orton held it 364

A bunch of other folks have held it the other 800 some odd days.

 

During that period Cena's longest title run was 84 days long, Long enough to win it defend on PPV and then loose to next challenger.

 

 

Even if you think there is money in the chase Dusty chased Flair. He didn't chase Flair beat him, then loose to the Spoiler chase him, eventually beat him only to then loose his first defense to the Spoiler, chase him and then beat him to only loose to the Bobby Jaggers, chase him beat him and then not be able to succesfully defend opposite Buddy Wolf, etc.

If you booked the major top WWF faces from the 70s and 80s the same way as Cena has been booked (face wins title, face succesfully defends title next month, then looses it to next challenger following month), then anyone who worked a more than two month program opposite Bruno, Morales, Backlund, Hogan would have held the title.

 

Heels like Steele, Kowalski, Patera, Hansen, Snuka, Duncum, King Curtis Iaukea, Don Leo Jonathon, Maivia, Patterson, Valentine, Orndorf, Bossman, Rude, Roberts,Piper, Bundy, etc. all get title runs. No way Tenta doesn't get a title run after injuring Hogan. Putski gets a face run of a couple months in 70s. Not sure if face Maivia or Monsoon get title run. JYD gets one. Beefacke gets one. Khan-Andre is set up by Khan having title.

[Matt D]

If the guy who is booked as 9th or 13th most important guy in fed can be multiple time world champ, I don't see how Duggan gets dismissed as a no.

To me one of the biggest issues is whether or not we have two major belts.

 

It's pretty obvious to me that guys like Swagger/Christian/Henry/Jeff Hardy wouldn't have won the Championship if there was only one belt, but I think guys like CM Punk/Booker/JBL and yeah, probably Edge would be doubtful too. The Brand Split doesn't just mean there's a second belt for someone else to get. It also dilutes the brands so that a guy lower in the card is instantly boosted up.

[JerryvonKramer]

It seems I've massively, massively underestimated the extent to which they hotshot titles now. The idea of Bossman as world champ is frankly ridiculous. Who has been the equivalent of, say, Greg Valentine in the 00s?

 

Why does Beefcake get one? That would be like Billy Gunn being champ in 1999, no? This is so far away from what I consider to be sensible booking that I almost can't process it.

[Marty]

Heels like Steele, Kowalski, Patera, Hansen, Snuka, Duncum, King Curtis Iaukea, Don Leo Jonathon, Maivia, Patterson, Valentine, Orndorf, Bossman, Rude, Roberts,Piper, Bundy, etc. all get title runs. No way Tenta doesn't get a title run after injuring Hogan. Putski gets a face run of a couple months in 70s. Not sure if face Maivia or Monsoon get title run. JYD gets one. Beefacke gets one. Khan-Andre is set up by Khan having title.

Yeah, the list I have above is a truncated version of all those names put together. I originally had Blassie in there too and feel silly taking him out. Had considered Monsoon too. Was Maivia a face when working that series with Backlund?

[Matt D]

Why does Beefcake get one? That would be like Billy Gunn being champ in 1999, no? This is so far away from what I consider to be sensible booking that I almost can't process it.

In 1989 Beefcake main evented Summerslam. On that card, the only faces at his level or higher (discounting Demolition) were Hogan, Duggan and Warrior.

 

Summerslam 1999, the top faces were: Austin, Mankind and Rock. With Kane probably trailing behind.

[khawk20]

Was Maivia a face when working that series with Backlund?

Nope. Heel.

[Loss]

It seems I've massively, massively underestimated the extent to which they hotshot titles now. The idea of Bossman as world champ is frankly ridiculous. Who has been the equivalent of, say, Greg Valentine in the 00s?

 

Why does Beefcake get one? That would be like Billy Gunn being champ in 1999, no? This is so far away from what I consider to be sensible booking that I almost can't process it.

I'm not sure Swagger, who's had a title run, has ever been pushed to be as important as Beefcake was when he was pushed to be his most important.

[Cox]

I once saw something on a baseball site trying to forecast what the playoff races would have looked like in the 70's and 80's had there been three divisions and a wild card in those seasons rather than just the two divisions. I wonder what a hypothetical brand extension would have looked like in WWF in the 80's. One could be the Superstars brand and the other the Challenge brand, with different rosters for each show and monthly PPVs. I'm guessing a LOT of guys not even being considered would have gotten runs with one of the two belts had there been two world champions and monthly PPVs in the 80's.

[tomk]

It seems I've massively, massively underestimated the extent to which they hotshot titles now. The idea of Bossman as world champ is frankly ridiculous. Who has been the equivalent of, say, Greg Valentine in the 00s?

 

Why does Beefcake get one? That would be like Billy Gunn being champ in 1999, no? This is so far away from what I consider to be sensible booking that I almost can't process it.

 

Current Cena booking is that top face doesn't defend belt but instead chases it.

Anyone who had a two + run as MSG opponent of top face in 70s and 80s would now start that run holding belt.

Valentine was a challenger for world title in 70s. Under current booking the face would be chasing him. I imagine he'd hold the title twice in the 70s, his 84 IC title run would be a world title run (guy on top of B tours). Thats three world title runs right there. Once you have three, then the fed would trust him whenever someone got injured to work as interem title holder.

Bossman had a series with Hogan. That series would be Hogan chasing Bossman.

 

Beefcake was a uppercard face, I see him getting a less than one month run maybe winning it in elimination cage type multiperson match, the equivalent of Michaels 2002 run.