WON HoF Candidate Poll Thread

[JerryvonKramer]

Is Yatsu on the ballot?

[Dylan Waco]

Is Yatsu on the ballot?

Nope but Meltzer included him on one of these polls. I'll get to my thoughts on that crop soon.

[goodhelmet]

The fact that people are now talking up Jimmy Hart only strengthens the case of the 5 guys I outlined. I will put cases together for each of them.

None of them will compare to Hart's artistic peak in Memphis.

[JerryvonKramer]

Jesse Ventura

 

I'm going to take each guy at a time, starting with Ventura.

 

First of all, I'm going to make one thing clear: my argument for Ventura's candidacy is 100% based on his work as a colour commentator. His in-ring careeer is little but a footnote to that, his Hollywood career, his Governorship of Minnesota, and his subsequent work as a chat show host etc. aren't part of the picture at all.

 

In one line the argument is this:

 

Jesse Ventura was the greatest colour commentator ever to step into the booth and therefore he should be in the WON Hall of Fame.

 

That's it. Your view on this will depend therefore on:

 

1. The extent to which you agree with that statement

 

2. The extent to which you think the role of colour commentator is important to wrestling

 

and, although not logically following on from that statement, this is still important to my case ...

 

3. The extent to which you think the WWF as presented on tv in the 1980s is important in wrestling history in general

 

There are a few nuances to the argument I'd make:

 

- Jesse wasn't only a great heel a la Heenan, he was also a great ANALYST of the action -- he worked on the level of a pro sports commentator. This is easiest to see in 1992 in WCW when he's working with Jim Ross under Watts. Ross in 92 was not interested in playing up the heel / face dynamic, he was at that point obsessed with guys' college backgrounds and football careers, etc. Ventura plugged straight in there and did a very efficient job of pulling apart the action on a technical level. This aspect of Ventura's performance is underrated and seldom talked about. It's this aspect of his performance that carries him through the PPVs with Gorilla too.

 

- He formed not one but TWO legit awesome partnerships in his career -- both of them with onscreen morons / OTT pro-face marks. First with Vince McMahon on SNME and Superstars. Second, with Tony Schiavone in WCW in 1993 -- which was just so much fun it's unreal. His chemistry with Vince was off the charts. People talk about Monsoon and Heenan as being the all-time greatest partnership, I think it was Vince and Jesse. Think about the roles they played in some of the biggest angles ever and even in some of the less important ones. Yes, I'm thinking of Uncle Elmer's wedding. Jesse not only made that watchable, he made it COMPELLING. Which brings me to ...

 

- The importance of SNME to the WWF boom. My feeling is that without this show, you don't get 93,000 at Wrestlemania 3, you don't get that massive casual fanbase to draw from for the next decade ...

 

- Jesse was ABSOLUTELY INTEGRAL to the presentation of both SNME and Superstars in this period. It's very difficult to say what the effect would have been were he not on the show, but 1) it wouldn't have been as good and 2) neither the heels nor the faces wouldn't have got over to the same extent that they did. It's difficult to put some sort of figure on it. Let's say it was 5%. That's not only 5% the shows overall, but also 5% to the careers of all of the major and even not so major guys then. In a few exceptional cases -- Savage in 86, Rude, Duggan -- you can probably double that figure. WWF around this timeframe was magical, but let's face it, it wasn't magical because of anything happening in the ring, it was magical because of the PRESENTATION and Jesse was the cherry on the cake. Sure, it would have still be great without it, but he helped make it next level. For my money, it's the best wrestling has EVER been presented, although I admit that's contentious.

 

- Intelligence. Jesse was easily the cleverest guy around and that's something you can't script, he just had natural intelligence and that sparkled in an environment in which you're basically surrounded by idiots. It's one of the reasons that he's consistently entertaining no matter what the show and who the partner.

 

- Wrestlemania and the other big PPVs. It's easy now to take the first 6 Wrestlemanias for granted, but had any of them failed the landscape of wrestling would have been immeasurably different now. Jesse was on all of them and again he at least has to take some of the credit for how it got over with the mainstream, casual audience.

 

I think ALL FIVE of those have a better claims than anyone mentioned in this thread so far. I really do.

What's next? Sean Mooney? Danny Davis? Earl and Dave Hebner? Mr. Fuji?

 

I think broadcast teams and the general PRESENTATION elements of what made the boom era great are often overlooked by your typical smart fan. But there's a reason I'm pimping Ventura and not Mooney or Hayes or any other second-string guy.

 

Suffice it to say, I think Jesse Ventura is more important to wrestling history than at least 60% of the wrestlers named in this thread so far.

 

Who did Jesse Ventura get over who would not have been over without Jesse's ability to sell them from the announce booth, the way Ross was associated with Austin, or Okerlund with Hogan and late 90s Flair, or Russell with Lawler, or Solie with everyone in Florida and Georgia? He could be very entertaining, but Jesse sold himself way more than he sold what was happening in the ring.

 

Sorry, but this just isn't true. It isn't. Everyone here has watched hours of WWF and WCW footage from the era in which he was active and it's not true. He ALWAYS got the action over. Always. Even in 93 and 94, when Tony would start shilling for the main event on the 2nd match of the card, Ventura stayed focused on the action. He always got people over. Yes, he got himself over too, but that's because he had natural charisma and intelligence.

 

I associate Ventura with RICK RUDE in the same way I associate Ross with Austin. Both in WWF and WCW, Ventura had a permanent hard on for Rude.

 

Incidentally, the ONLY time I heard Ventura bury anyone was when fans were booing Erik Watts on one of the PPV shows in 92. It was during Superbrawl III actually and in my little review, I even took a transcript:

 

Tony: Erik Watts in!!

 

Crowd: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (one of the loudest I've ever heard)

 

Jesse: Why do they boo every time Erik Watts comes in the ring Schiavone?

 

Tony: Are you sure that's "boo" or is that "woo"?

 

Jesse: I don't know, I'll listen next time he makes a change.

 

Tony: Stop talking and listen once in a while, and you might find out something.

 

Jesse: You sure are mouthy this Superbrawl evening.

 

Tony: You don't like it? You don't like that? [quickly goes back to calling the action]

Very funny.

 

* I don't think he was a good announcer

 

Folks can certainly debate that, and the majority of folks fall on the other side of that. But it's my vote, and I don't think he really was all that good, let alone great. I thought Hayes with Ross in UWF was much better, and always like Cornette much better in the role later in the decade.

Part of me wonders if Jesse is beloved because he was somehow smarkier in his comments. Or maybe he was just anti-Hogan at a time where it seemed like no one else in the rest of the country was anti-Hogan except for Dave and his ilk. As if he was their mouthpiece on some level. Maybe that's reaching too far.

 

I think he's entertaining, but part of why I like him is because, as a kid, I always felt "hey, Jesse has a point!" which has nothing to do with him being effective, just with me being contrary.

Jesse was never smarky, he was always 100% kayfabe, but within that there was always a grain of truth to what he said and he DID have a point. That is what set Ventura apart from the cartoon heeling of Heenan.

 

He'd call out Hogan for being a total dick when he was being a dick. He'd call out hypocrisies. And when Vince or Gorilla pointed out the heel cheating or whatnot, rather than covering or pretending he didn't see it like Heenan, he'd acknowledge it.

 

He'd also sometimes give praise to faces.

 

He did a fantastic job of giving the illusion of journalistic integrity while still blatantly cheering for heels. Far more effective than Heenan ever was AT THAT if you ask me.

 

I don't understand jdw and others knocking him. Just seems like anti-WWF sentiment or smarky contrarianism to me.

 

Ventura legit rules and deserves to be in the HoF.

 

It's worth noting that Piper did heel commentary nationally before Ventura did. Also, the WWF didn't skip a beat when they lost him and his WCW run was fairly uninspired.

This last point is plain not true. His WCW run is as good as anything he did in WWF and much, much better than Heenan's. Piper doesn't compare with Ventura as a colour man. I found him annoying. Like many great talkers, he was a much better promo than he was an analyst. Piper's colour stuff in 1990 is very annoying to my mind.

 

The WWF's success in the 80s was landmark. Pro wrestling had seen nothing like it before, and arguably nothing like it since.

 

On the other hand, who are the people most responsible for it?

 

Vince and Hulk.

 

Who else?

 

We don't know all the details of Patterson's impact behind the scenes, or just when it became impactful.

 

WWF Production was ahead of the game. I know that a lot of us like to point to WWF Production in the later parts of the Monday Night Wars as their peak, but from the standpoint of putting on a very professional production in the mid-to-late 80s for their syndication and PPV product, the WWF was well ahead of the curve in pro wrestling. I also know that folks like to point to Dallas for being ahead of the curve, and Mid South in terms of quality of their TV product... but both really looked rinky dink relative to where the WWF transitioned towards in 1986 with the refresh of their syndicated programs, and also SNME and PPV. Is there someone involved in that worthy of the HOF? Long term, that person's impact is probably more than Jesse's.

 

Then other wrestlers?

 

I'm just trying to figure out what % goes to Jesse. Vince and Hulk eat up probably 80% of the credit, if not more. On the other extreme, there are probably a lot of guys who were along for the ride on some level.

I don't think it is fair to say that Jesse was just along for the ride. Would you admit that SNME would have been far less entertaining if it was someone else standing there with Vince?

 

What if Bruno had stuck around? Or Billy Graham? Have you seen how much those shows suck because of their shitty commentary?

 

WWF was a promotion where commentary and presentation MATTERED MORE than the wrestling. That wasn't the case in most of the territories or in Crockett, but it was in New York.

 

I'd argue it was at least 70% presentation to 30% wrestling. And Jesse was a significant part of that presentation. Fact is, he was a unique figure in wrestling -- you couldn't manufacture his brand of intelligence and charisma. You couldn't write his lines. You couldn't replace him. He, like Heenan and a handful of others from this generation, was a "true one off".

 

I don't see any reason for him not to go in the HoF.

[Loss]

Who did Jesse Ventura get over who would not have been over without Jesse's ability to sell them from the announce booth, the way Ross was associated with Austin, or Okerlund with Hogan and late 90s Flair, or Russell with Lawler, or Solie with everyone in Florida and Georgia? He could be very entertaining, but Jesse sold himself way more than he sold what was happening in the ring.

 

Sorry, but this just isn't true. It isn't. Everyone here has watched hours of WWF and WCW footage from the era in which he was active and it's not true. He ALWAYS got the action over. Always. Even in 93 and 94, when Tony would start shilling for the main event on the 2nd match of the card, Ventura stayed focused on the action. He always got people over. Yes, he got himself over too, but that's because he had natural charisma and intelligence.

 

I associate Ventura with RICK RUDE in the same way I associate Ross with Austin. Both in WWF and WCW, Ventura had a permanent hard on for Rude.

 

Incidentally, the ONLY time I heard Ventura bury anyone was when fans were booing Erik Watts on one of the PPV shows in 92. It was during Superbrawl III actually and in my little review, I even took a transcript:

 

Tony: Erik Watts in!!

 

Crowd: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! (one of the loudest I've ever heard)

 

Jesse: Why do they boo every time Erik Watts comes in the ring Schiavone?

 

Tony: Are you sure that's "boo" or is that "woo"?

 

Jesse: I don't know, I'll listen next time he makes a change.

 

Tony: Stop talking and listen once in a while, and you might find out something.

 

Jesse: You sure are mouthy this Superbrawl evening.

 

Tony: You don't like it? You don't like that? [quickly goes back to calling the action]

Very funny.

See, I guess I look at that example as Jesse Ventura going into business for himself. Erik Watts wasn't working to be booed. It's Jesse's job to try to change that (not for the live audience, of course), but stuff like this encourages it. Erik was a babyface. Things like that should get ignored.

 

I want that to read clearly. I am not saying it was Jesse Ventura's fault that Erik Watts got booed. I am saying that when you have a babyface struggling to get over, pointing out the obvious is counterproductive to getting him over as a babyface. A good heel puts over his opponent in interviews instead of belittling him.

 

Also unfunny and distracting during that time - constant "Texican" talk, discussion of Shane Douglas's politics, going on about Barry Windham's taped fist for months when it's not a storyline point the company is trying to get over and allowing side conversation like that to overtake calling the action in the ring.

 

Announcers are not (well, should not be) characters. They exist to make the wrestlers look great. There's no reason for fans at home to notice how funny Jesse Ventura is, because getting over Jesse Ventura's humor does nothing to get over Sting, Rick Rude, Vader, Arn Anderson, Steve Austin, Brian Pillman, Paul E or anyone else you want to mention in WCW during that time.

 

Ventura liked Rude, sure. He liked all the heels. Michael Hayes did too, but Hayes was better at making a point that happened to be funny that fit the storyline instead of making the humor of his lines a point in itself. It's why I prefer him.

[JerryvonKramer]

Point taken, but I'd suggest that Ventura only did this in matches that were of no importance and the Watts example is the ONLY example I can think of of him outright burying a guy.

 

Besides, are you seriously suggesting Hayes was a better colour man than Ventura? I think this taking wrestling hipsterdom a step too far.

 

I don't think it's a fair criticism of Ventura IN GENERAL that he got his own humour over at the expense of the talent. I think those are exceptions to the general rule, which over hours and hours of footage surely you can forgive.

 

RE Rude: Ventura likes all the heels, but he had a particular thing for Rude, possibly because he saw him as having a similar gimmick to himself and being his spiritual protege. Ergo, Ventura being involved with the posedown vs. Warrior and the arm wrestling tourney in WCW.

 

Announcers are not (well, should not be) characters

I don't agree with this. Their job is to make entertaining TV AS WELL as get talent over.

 

I'd take Vince circa 1986 over Solie any day of the week. And I don't care which wrestling gods I offend by saying that.

[Loss]

Wrestling hipsterdom? I'd rather not make this a thread where we question the motives of those who disagree with us because we can't refute their points.

 

You pointed to this as a great example of how good Jesse was at the booth. I pointed out why it wasn't. Now, you're changing your tune and saying it's not important, and that I'm focusing too much on it. Where's the consistency? That was a specific example that you brought up.

 

Ventura liked Rude. I won't deny Ventura liked Rude. I will deny that they are any closer linked together than Jesse with any other heel in the WWF or WCW during his announcing days. I don't recall seeing them next to each other on TV very often at all through the years.

 

And it's a longer point than I have time to make at the moment that requires a lot of explanation, but I don't think it's anyone's job in wrestling to be "entertaining". I think it's everyone's job in wrestling to convince you of something -- that someone either deserved to win, should not have won, will win, will lose, will have their ass kicked, will in a championship, etc. They're salesmen, not comedians. And fans derive entertainment from that because said convincing manipulates emotions, but specifically creating moments or lines that are solely to entertain is the slippery slope that eventually eroded fan ability to invest emotionally and gave us Vince Russo. I also think the most entertaining wrestling is that which pretends to be the most serious.

 

You don't offend me by taking Vince over Solie. I think Vince was a great announcer at times.

[JerryvonKramer]

I didn't point to the Erik Watts bit as an example of him being good in the booth, I put it forward as one example of when he tried to bury someone. The only one I've come across.

 

It's not even funny because of Ventura, it's funny because of Tony's pathetic attempt at a save "is it woo, not boo".

 

We may have a different interpreation of what we think wrestling is about though, because one thing I think Vince changed was the idea that everything was a hard sell / shill.

 

I think by the time we get to SNME there's a "soft sell" or kind of hook.

 

You can see this much more readily in the Prime Time roundtables or the silly skits with Jimmy Hart and JYD having a water slide race.

 

"Entertainment" need not be a slippery slope, but a more general hook to keep audiences coming back. And whichever way you look at it, that model beat the old territorial hard shill model.

 

Moments that are "just there to entertain" are in fact there to keep you hooked and coming back for more.

 

The reason the Russo era was bad was NOT because it sought to entertain for entertainment's sake but because it tried to manufacture entertainment artificially and WRITE characters rather than let them develop organically. And even then the chief successes of that era -- Rock, Austin, Foley -- weren't WRITTEN but came from an organic place.

 

The slippery slope is thinking you can create a character like a Ventura, or a Rock, or a Flair, Austin, Hogan etc., from the head of a writer. You can't. That's why so much "sports entertainment" has sucked since Russo, not because it's tried to be entertaining.

[ohtani's jacket]

C'mon, Bobby Heenan wasn't a character? Good Ol' JR isn't a character? Lawler? Lance Russell? Kent Walton? Unless you have zero personality you're a character to some extent or another. Jesse could go off on tangents at times, but I agree with a lot of what Jerry wrote. Jesse was awesome and I don't get the disdain. How can people like that dipshit who commentated for All Japan and dislike Jesse?

 

And Rude was definitely a guy you associated with Jesse since he was the winner of the "Body Award." Other guys I immediately associate with Jesse are Hogan, Steamboat and Tito. I don't think Jesse belongs in the Hall but it's perplexing to why people don't think he's good. And what was wrong with Tony? The standard of wrestling commentary was never so high that Tony was poor.

[El-P]

I think Jerry made a pretty great case for Jesse. I particulary agree with the analyst and presentation part of it. Yes, Jesse was great as maintaining a level of credibility while staying a heel color guy. Pointing out hypocritical stuff by the faces yet still being a denial heel color guy in the end, yet not coming across like a complete goof like Heenan would. And the presentation was a huge part of WWF, and Jesse add to it in spades I think.

 

And yes, announcers are characters, at least good ones. That's why they are great too. They have their own style, their own idiosyncrasies, their distinctive look. I got into wrestling at first probably 70% thanks to the announcing style of Guy Hauray and Eddie Carpentier, who could make *anything* watchable, even if it took creating their own stories around the wrestlers or talking shit about something else, yet always coming back to the wrestling. They were great characters, and I nearly quit watching when Hauray was gone and I was left with Ray Rougeau and some other terrible guy with him.

 

I think Jesse played a role in helping Rick Rude get over to the WWF crowds. I don't care about the HOF, which is bullshit anyway but don't tell me Jesse doesn't at least have a case.

[Dylan Waco]

Look at the announers in. Jesse's run was far shorter. He is not synonomous with a name or brand the way the others are. When Jesse left there may have been a drop in quality, but it didn't feel like a different show. Compare that to Memphis without Lance or even the way the WWE comes across without Ross. There are wrestlers who drew big for periods longer than Jess's entire run as a heel commentator that are scoffed at as candidates. Even if yiu think he has a case to suggest there is no reason for him not to be in is a massive stretch

[kjh]

Your mileage may vary on the quality of Ventura's WCW run, but it meant nothing for their business. So much so that his salary stuck out like a sore thumb to Mick Foley in contract negotiations with Eric Bischoff. It's not Hall Of Fame level stuff.

 

The WWF commentary run is a feather in his cap, but for an announcer it is not a very long run. You can also argue that though he added to the product, he was along for the ride.

[Tim Cooke]

I was always very much amused with Ventura on commentary in WCW, especially when he would provoke Tony or Ross on purpose. But like Keith said, I'm not sure that qualifies for HOF.

[El-P]

You can also argue that though he added to the product, he was along for the ride.

I think you can safely argue that outside of Hogan, Vince, maybe Patterson and without a doubt the production crew, everyone was along for the ride.

[JerryvonKramer]

The way I'd look at it though, some people just put on their seatbelts and sat quietly in the back on the ride, whereas others did cool shit to pimp that ride out.

 

Ventura did the equivalent of putting little touches on the ride, like a gold fin thing on the back to make it look more aerodynamic and like all flame patterns on the front.

 

Sure, that ride would have still be dope without those little touches, but he made the dope ride doper.

[Matt D]

For anyone interested (and someone can knock this down if it's either A ) not allowed in this section of the board, though I'm not sure anyone even sells it. That'd go against the spirit of the thing from Jesse's pov, I'd think, or B ) a faulty link or just the wrong file; I can't double check it at work): http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5A9PYQC1 This is a fascinating off the cusp, impromptu Ventura chat from 93 or 94, between smarks and Ventura, at a convention or show or something.

[JerryvonKramer]

This is interesting if you can hear through the crowd. Jesse has attacked Meltzer quite a lot so far.

 

"He's raping you as well as the business" ouch

[JerryvonKramer]

Interestingly, he points to a direct correlation between his departure from the WWF and declining buyrates. And points to the fact that Hogan is still there whereas he has gone.

 

He also argues that he and Vince were the best broadcast team of all time, and neither of them have been as good since.

 

He also absolutely buries JR and essentially calls him shit and accuses Meltzer of sucking up to him because he feeds him results.

 

This is the Jesse shoot I thought we'd never hear. There's a funny dynamic where he knows these guys are taping him but plays along anyway.

[JerryvonKramer]

This struck me as apposite to the current discussion:

 

"To me Ross sucks. I find his announcing abrasive. It's irritating, it's not from the heart. He thinks he's Keith Jackson or something you know? Also, he's so much of an ego, he's out for himself not for the programme. When I first came to WCW, I would feed him so well and he would ignore me. He was so bad. I'll tell you how bad it was: Lex Luger called my manager and asked him if we were broadcasting from the same booth. Because Jesse feeds him and Ross doesn't react -- he did that on purpose because he wanted to be the number 1 honcho, rather than working for co-ordination in the show. That's why I respect McMahon. McMahon is more powerful than any announcer in this business, but McMahon would allow me to berate him ... he just knew that the SHOW was the ultimate result not Vince's ego."

[kjh]

You can also argue that though he added to the product, he was along for the ride.

I think you can safely argue that outside of Hogan, Vince, maybe Patterson and without a doubt the production crew, everyone was along for the ride.

I think lots of other people played key early roles, because they were running split crews. Albano, Piper, Snuka, Slaughter, Andre, Shiek, etc. There were several Madison Square Garden shows that drew very well without Hogan in the mid 1980s, headlined by those guys instead. The problem with Jesse is that it's hard to quantify how important he truly was to the product. It's not like Vince didn't have good chemistry with other broadcast partners after Jesse left. He was an enjoyable part of the package, but then so was Jerry "The King" Lawler's pervy comedy routine during the Attitude Era to most viewers and I don't think anyone would advocate him going into a Hall Of Fame just for that.

[El-P]

but then so was Jerry "The King" Lawler's pervy comedy routine during the Attitude Era to most viewers and I don't think anyone would advocate him going into a Hall Of Fame just for that.

Anyone actually liked Jerry Lawler during those times ? I thought he was pretty unbearable.

[jdw]

jdw, why is Jimmy Lennon in the HoF but not Finkel? Just seems a bit pretentious to me.

Dave thought he was the greatest ring announcer ever and that he played a huge role in helping get over Mexican / Ethnic wrestlers.

 

I never saw Lennon do wrestling. Saw him do a lot of boxing. Liked him a good deal, and he was iconic in Los Angeles. But I'm not going to advocate him for the HOF.

 

I also wouldn't, if one thinks Lennon / Ring Announcers shouldn't be in the HOF, use it to argue for Fink to get in. One doesn't address an instance of flawed selection by using it to justify a second flawed selection. If that makes sense.

 

John

[Matt D]

My bias against ventura is, in part, that I think if he DID get in, it would be for all of the wrong reasons.

[JerryvonKramer]

You can also argue that though he added to the product, he was along for the ride.

I think you can safely argue that outside of Hogan, Vince, maybe Patterson and without a doubt the production crew, everyone was along for the ride.

I think lots of other people played key early roles, because they were running split crews. Albano, Piper, Snuka, Slaughter, Andre, Shiek, etc. There were several Madison Square Garden shows that drew very well without Hogan in the mid 1980s, headlined by those guys instead. The problem with Jesse is that it's hard to quantify how important he truly was to the product. It's not like Vince didn't have good chemistry with other broadcast partners after Jesse left. He was an enjoyable part of the package, but then so was Jerry "The King" Lawler's pervy comedy routine during the Attitude Era to most viewers and I don't think anyone would advocate him going into a Hall Of Fame just for that.

 

I don't think you can make a case for Ventura that is quantifiable. The only argument you can make is the one that says he's the GOAT colour man and is important to wrestling and WWF history because of that.

 

That's the only criterion by which he gets in. And his case lives or dies by it.

 

A little difficult because obviously that's a value statement, but that's the best and almost only case imo.

 

Incidentally, that why out of the 5, I started with Ventura because it's the most straight forward case. The others require a bit more explaination / argument.

[jdw]

I think everyone's underestimating the sheer amount of hours Finkel put in backstage in the 80s too.

I gave an example of two people who spent more hours backstage and had more impact: (i) whoever was the key Production Person in the WWF in the 80s, and (ii) Kevin Dunn. I can't credit Fink much for being a backstage guy when there are some major, massive backstage guys they we're either ignoring or know nothing about.

 

Seriously... that (i) guy above is someone who is forgotten by history but played a major role in Expansion. I think a lot of his impact gets rolled into Vince, possibly Pat (the only other Front Office guy who gets any credit), and possibly Dunn (whose bio is written in a way to give him perhaps undo credit in the 80s). That dude, or those dudes, is someone that folks should try to identify and find out more about. It's pretty much an unwritten part of the 80s history.

 

In turn, Kevin Dunn almost certainly should be on the ballot, and should get major consideration for going in. Whatever negatives Paul E, Corny and others want to throw at him, WWF Production has had a major impact on the company and the business in Dunn's term in charge (essentially 1993 on, meaning the whole Raw Era and also the expansion to monthly PPV). A lot of those positives have put major $$$$ into the WWE's coffers.

 

John