ohtani's jacket Posted August 13, 2013 Report Share Posted August 13, 2013 This will sound weird, but I think Japanese fans are easier to understand if you think about something like fans watching tennis at Wimbledon. Sometimes it can be quiet, even if they are engrossed, and sometimes they'll go wild if someone does something cool or if there's a dramatic point. I actually think boxing crowd dynamics around the world are closer to the way Japanese fans watch wrestling than US fans watch it. The strong emphasis on face/heel divide and cheering faces and booing heels is what marks US crowds from Japanese ones. Too much is made, I think, of Japanese fans being "quirky". The more I think about it, the more they are just like fans of lots of real single competitor sports and it's just US wrestling crowds that are "quirky" (because of this need always for there to be a hero or a villain). Japanese fans pop the same as any other crowd. If you ask me, older wrestlers' comments about Japanese crowds are just an excuse for not popping the audience, since let's face it, most American wrestlers didn't know how to pop a Japanese audience. The biggest myth about Japan was that you had to go over there and wrestle a more serious match and that feeds into your idea that the fans are like fans of real single competitor sports. I haven't been to a lot of shows, but I've never come across any fan like that. The connection to the wrestlers is more important than any "real sports" element. I also think there are regional differences in terms of fans. People who watch Osaka shows will attest to that. There's a cultural shift as well. Your 70 crowds aren't the same as your 80s crowds which in turn aren't the same as your 90s and beyond crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 My observations are based soley on watching matches from 1980 to 1990. The "real single competitor sports" analogy comes from the fact that they often seemed happy to cheer both guys in a given match. Just like in real sports, they'd have their favourites, but it wouldn't stop them popping for their opponent if they did something cool. This is why I mentioned Wimbledon, because even your die-hard Federer fan will still clap Nadal if he does something great. There seemed to be something of that dynamic in the All-Japan crowds of that time. Crowds since then may well be different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 The guys they loved most were Hansen and Brody and Abdullah and Funk, not so much polite golf claps for Nick Bockwinkel. A dead crowd is a dead crowd or at least a quiet one. I think people get confused when the work is good as though the fans are engaged in the strategy of the match or something when they were probably waiting to see Baba. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 The guys they loved most were Hansen and Brody and Abdullah and Funk, not so much polite golf claps for Nick Bockwinkel. A dead crowd is a dead crowd or at least a quiet one. I think people get confused when the work is good as though the fans are engaged in the strategy of the match or something when they were probably waiting to see Baba. Watching people rush the aisle when Hansen would come out for the "honor" of having him shove them on their ass is quite a thing to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nell Santucci Posted August 14, 2013 Report Share Posted August 14, 2013 The guys they loved most were Hansen and Brody and Abdullah and Funk, not so much polite golf claps for Nick Bockwinkel. A dead crowd is a dead crowd or at least a quiet one. I think people get confused when the work is good as though the fans are engaged in the strategy of the match or something when they were probably waiting to see Baba. I'm glad you say that. Nick Bockwinkel's character strikes me as the quintessential country club conservative who'd tell a homeless bum to get a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 "Gambling is illegal at Bushwood sir, and I never slice." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 Quick question is there a general consensus 1988 WWF Match of the Year? It is a pretty light year in terms of in-ring quality. I would presume it is one of the Randy Savage vs Ted DiBiase matches, but other than that I cant think of any major 1988 WWF program/feud that would deliver great matches. Just curious, if I am brainfarting and missing something wicked obvious. Tough one. Maybe the big tag team Survivor Series match? When we did the non-cannon WWF Best of the 1980s set, the top finishers for 1988 were: #21 Randy Savage vs Ted DiBiase (7/22/88 MSG) #37 Blue Angel (Owen Hart) vs Barry Horowitz (8/13/88 Los Angeles CA) #49 Ten Man Tag Survivor Series 1988 (11/24/88 Richfield OH 1988 Survivor Series) - high standard deviation on this one Other matches on the list were: #51 Bret Hart vs Bad News Brown (4/25/88 MSG) #75 Tim Horner vs Barry Horowitz (12/30/88 MSG) #86 Brainbusters vs Young Stallions (11/6/88 Toronto) #95 Hulk Hogan vs Ted DiBiase (3/12/88 Philadelphia PA) I just watched a Valentine/Santana match from 88 that was pretty damn good, but it would not be a MOTYC in any other fed other than WWF 1988 where there seemed to be a real dearth of quality. I was going to make a point of watching Survivor Series '88 soon. Busters vs Stallions would be nice to see the Busters against another face tag team. Though there is a Busters match I really want to see against the Bushwhackers that I cant find. I don't know how I missed Hart vs Bad News. I need to rewatch Savage vs DiBiase feud because I remember being underwhelmed, but the last two DiBiase performances I saw were way better than I remember. Also, I agree with you , Matt, that Hart Foundation vs Demolition at Summerslam 1988 would be current MOTY for 1988 WWF. That being said I am surprised you didnt say Demolition vs Rockers 10/88 or am I confusing you with someone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 They're both excellent matches. The Hart match is probably more interesting as it's really a merging of the two teams' styles (and a great showcase of Eadie's versatility since he's so good at knowing when and where to stooge given the stage and the team he's in against after years of not stooging at all). The Rockers match is probably better in a vacuum though. I'm too close to this stuff to really say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 Not sure if totally serious but it seems that Darren Young has come out as gay: http://www.tmz.com/2013/08/15/darren-young...-superstar-gay/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 Interesting, will that be airing on ESPN classic in the UK? Are the ESPN channels even going to continue to be on Sky, now that BT Sports have taken their EPL rights? I heard they were shutting down all the channels over here. ESPN classic would be a loss for me, got loads of great football off there over the years, World Cup and European Cup finals shown in their entirety etc. I imagine JVK knows something about this? No, if something is airing on one country's version of ESPN Classic, never assume it's airing on another country's ESPN Classic. The American, Canadian, and British channels have all aired different wrestling shows. I've now got the new BT Sports and UK ESPN channels and ESPN is showing lots of Baseball, NASCAR, AFL, college football, poker and ... UFC! BT Sports seems to be very "soccer" orientated. They've picked up German, French and Italian football to compliment their EPL stuff. Also ... MLS! They have signed JvK hero James Richardson to front European coverage so I'm amped about that. Since they seem to be nudging towards some UFC coverage on these channels, surely there might be an opportunity for wrestling too. In fact, I wonder if this might not be where the new World of Sport ultimately ends up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indikator Posted August 15, 2013 Report Share Posted August 15, 2013 Isnt ESPN UK now what last year was ESPN America in the UK? I was delighted to see that I could watch MLS and then Bundesliga on Sundays. I could even mix it up soon with La Liga from an Austrian online outlet. Good times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButchReedMark Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Not quite. ESPN's showing Aussie Rules and some foreign football leagues as well as overflow from BT Sports proper. Which to be fair is a massive improvement on the competitive fucking eating ESPN America used to show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Big Show did an interview yesterday and he's lost 42 pounds since May 29. The Observer earlier this week reported he had some kind of hip surgery. Hopefully this spurs a career revival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Big Show did an interview yesterday and he's lost 42 pounds since May 29. The Observer earlier this week reported he had some kind of hip surgery. Hopefully this spurs a career revival. Ah, that's awesome. When he came back in 2008, he looked a lot better for having lost all the weight he did. Hope this keeps him around, injuries permitting, for a few more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollinger. Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollinger. Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Motivated and healthy Big Show is just about as much fun as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 Damn... sorry that the other thread is closed because Stone Cold chimed in: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS_Ni438QpI And that's the bottom line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 That picture is about 2 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollinger. Posted August 16, 2013 Report Share Posted August 16, 2013 He made it his Twitter avatar two weeks ago and GIS shows no evidence of it being around before that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 Cabana has Miz on his show this week and it's great. If you hate the guy, (I don't ), it'll probably turn you around. He's pretty cool. Cabana kinda shits on the show during the intro, going on about how Miz would keep shifting between his real self and the character "The Miz"....and it really only happens once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 So it looks like we might get to see what a Cena-less WWE will look like, since it appears he's actually going to get surgery to fix the titty growing out of his elbow. He's been missing houseshows leading up to SummerSlam, and it looks like he'll be done for a while afterwards. Considering they freak out when he had to miss one show for storyline purposes, this should be interesting to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 So it looks like we might get to see what a Cena-less WWE will look like, since it appears he's actually going to get surgery to fix the titty growing out of his elbow. He's been missing houseshows leading up to SummerSlam, and it looks like he'll be done for a while afterwards. Considering they freak out when he had to miss one show for storyline purposes, this should be interesting to see. I'm sure HHH will graciously step up and fill his role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 With all the focus on New Japan in the puro scene, I had totally lost track of All Japan and NOAH. I was looking up the Triple Crown title history and I saw Suwama was champion again. Yawn. So then I went to see who the GHC Champion is and it was FUCKIN KENTA!?!?!?!?!??! Has this helped increase business at all? I always thought the All Japan and NOAH merger was inevitable since Misawa's death, but each year it never happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 Cabana has Miz on his show this week and it's great. If you hate the guy, (I don't ), it'll probably turn you around. He's pretty cool. Cabana kinda shits on the show during the intro, going on about how Miz would keep shifting between his real self and the character "The Miz"....and it really only happens once. Same thoughts. Colt has had bigger self publicists and egos on the past. Not the worst but to me Mark Rollerball Rocco's "The Brits invented everything" act was far more grating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted August 17, 2013 Report Share Posted August 17, 2013 Cabana has Miz on his show this week and it's great. If you hate the guy, (I don't ), it'll probably turn you around. He's pretty cool. Cabana kinda shits on the show during the intro, going on about how Miz would keep shifting between his real self and the character "The Miz"....and it really only happens once. Same thoughts. Colt has had bigger self publicists and egos on the past. Not the worst but to me Mark Rollerball Rocco's "The Brits invented everything" act was far more grating. Colt himself is a bigger self publicist and has a bigger ego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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