A thread in which Dylan compares various wrestlers to HHH

[Matt D]

1.) Eat German Suplex Cleanly

2.) Roll Back to Your Feet as if Nothing Happened.

3.) Hit Superkick.

4.) Have Matt Hate You Forever.

 

No way has HHH ever done something that stupid

[Dylan Waco]

Did not forget about the few remaining. Rest of my week is busy but I will get to them soon!

[El-P]

We sure hope so. I'll throw out one last name :

 

Johnny Ace.

 

[Log]

Jimmy Garvin (mostly because I'm curious as to why you think HHH is a poor man's version of him...yeah, Garvin is obviously better, but I don't see the similarities)

 

Garvin is obviously better as you note. Not sure that Garvin is really the best comparison for HHH. My initial thought was “cliché heavy promo guy, with pampered elitist gimmick. Largely known for his association with two females, in which it is generally agreed that the first was more artistically successful, with the second being smarter for long term happiness. Third or four best guy in major stable that has been highly regarded historically. Known for unprofessional behavior, grumpiness when expected to job and help put others over. Reliance on methodical spots/pacing during heel control segments. Remembered fondly for angle where he defended honor of father figure after heinous attack.” I think those comparisons work, but there may be a better comp. Certainly Garvin’s feud with wifebeater trainer was better than HHH’s feud with trainee wifebeater for example.

Alright, I'm dense. Explain this part to me.

[Dylan Waco]

Garvin feud with Chris Adams superior to HHH feud with Austin

[Log]

Garvin feud with Chris Adams superior to HHH feud with Austin

Ahhh. Yes. Clever and also very true.

[Bob Morris]

Wow, what a thread. Amazing what I miss when I disappear from the forum for some time.

 

Just going over one point, regarding how it can be "closer than you think" between HHH and Nash.

 

HHH, as a worker, tries to be like Flair and Race when he really isn't and is never going to have a chance. He does have more matches that would be considered great than Nash does, but there's a difference between the two as workers.

 

Bad HHH matches come about because HHH thinks he can carry anyone to a long match and he can't

 

Bad Nash matches come when Nash is lazy. But Nash has never been of the mindset that he can carry anybody to a long match -- when he is motivated, he puts forth some good work, and it's not simply him being carried. And when motivated, Nash understands his limitations and doesn't try to do something he's not good at, which is something HHH tends to do too much.

 

In terms of workrate, sure, HHH is better than Nash, but I can see the argument it's not by a large margin.

 

In terms of charisma, Nash has the edge. When he talks and looks to draw the crowd into matches, he's far better at it. HHH always just gives the same old look to the crowd, who reacts depending on how hot his current program is. Nash has an easier time getting people to react to him and not just by outright burying guys... granted, Nash isn't at top-draw level in that department, but he does a better job of getting crowds to react to him than HHH does.

 

Interviews... as much as I want to give this to Nash, I can't. Nash can put forth solid interviews when he wants to but he has more than his fair share when he's actively trying to bury people. HHH has that same flaw... when HHH has a decent interview, though, it doesn't quite grab me the same as a solid Nash interview does.

 

If we include drawing power (although I don't think we are really discussing that), HHH certainly holds that over Nash, even if one debates how much drawing power HHH should really be credited with.

 

But if you stick with workrate, charisma and interviews, it goes like this: HHH wins workrate, Nash wins charisma and I guess it's a tossup on interviews, unless you solely look at the interviews where they don't just try to bury their opponent, in which case I think Nash is slightly ahead.

 

So, yes, the two are closer than people would think.

 

As far as an OMG remark made earlier goes, if anyone looks at just his WWF work, then yeah, people will go crazy, but if you include his other work, he jumps ahead of HHH. And, really, there are instances in WWF when he puts out some really good work. I wonder if that OMG/Savage match from SNME (not the WM IV match) is still out there, because I recall that one being really good.

[Bob Morris]

Oh, and I may as well throw a few names on to the pile... I don't think they've been mentioned yet.

 

Goldberg

Ray Traylor

Scott Steiner

Paul Roma

Mike Von Erich

Jeff Jarrett

Booker T

Louie Spicolli

Ernest Miller

Mikey Whipwreck

[Victator]

Jerry Flynn

[Loss]

Jeff Jarrett has been a pretty grating wrestling personality, but he has for the most part been a good to great wrestler, and I would easily put him above HHH.

[Bob Morris]

Jeff Jarrett has been a pretty grating wrestling personality, but he has for the most part been a good to great wrestler, and I would easily put him above HHH.

Did I manage to pull out the guy people would immediately think to compare to HHH?

 

I agree with you that Jarrett is a better worker than HHH, but I suspect there will be plenty to discuss when you consider the nepotism talking point.

[Victator]

Jarrett from the start was very good. I don't think many would dispute that at the height of his push in Memphis he was tic for tac with Lawler. After that he had to get by on his own talent.

 

I think HHH being married to Stephanie is overstated. For whatever reason, Vince was riding Trips nuts way before he married his kid.

[Matt D]

Hunter was part of the booking team in 97.

 

Also, just looking at OMG's WWF work is STILL enough to put him over Hunter, thank you very much.

 

As for Jarrett, I Don't think HHH was ever as compelling a heel as Jarrett was during his first heel turn at the end of 93 in memphis. That said, it was desperately needed at that point.

[artDDP]

...HHH was the World's best Alex Porteau...maybe.

Adding this to my signature...

[Dooley]

Hunter was part of the booking team in 97.

What? Really? Until the tail-end of the year he was Joe Average Midcarder and then graduated to HBK's lackey.

[Strummer]

Vince seemed to fall in love with Hunter for real when he came back bloated to the gills after the knee injury in fall 98. Compare his look from early 98 with Shawn to late in the year and it's obvious he was juicing (more than usual I guess) to get a push Remember he was working in a program with Mark Henry at the time and when he came back it was obvious they wanted him on top

[Victator]

HHH was getting a big midcard push from the time he won the IC Title in 96 til he joined DX. I think he lost outright twice in a year. Once to Sid (who was WWF Champ) and then to Cactus Jack at MSG.

[Dylan Waco]

HHH fucking Steph is probably somewhat overstated, as attaching ones self to Vince's obvious lust interest was probably just as wise a career move

[Bob Morris]

I think Vince Russo was a big fan of HHH at the time as well. And, given that HHH hung around with Shawn all the time, when Shawn was gone, it was pretty much a given that HHH was going to be the new leader of DX.

 

Although I think what really put DX over the top in that run were X-Pac and the New Age Outlaws. Heck, 1998 was one of Sean Waltman's finest years.

[Dylan Waco]

J.T. Southern

 

I haven't really seen that much Southern. IIRC his satellite promo segments during Van Hammer feud included better HHH style mic work than we usually got from HHH, but that's not to say he was better on average.

 

Soldat Ustinov

 

Bix was ranting to me about how much Ustinov sucked the other day, but consider a few things. First of all he had the absolute shittiest Russian accent ever. That goes a long way with me, because in modern hipster cultural enjoying things for ironic reasons is really "in." I could see Ustinov taking off today for that reason. He would probably be a great foil for Santino, or better yet someone Ace could bring in as Otunga's former KGB bodyguard. Eventually they'd have to give him the subtle/slow Virgil style face turn and he's not as good a worker as Virgil, but I could see it working very well. Ustinov also had a really fun match with Jerry Lawler and was pretty good about being a guy who could get "lost" in a quality tag match to the point where he wasn't a distraction, whereas HHH would never have the sense to let the guys who are actually good do the work. Ustinov is clearly worse than HHH, but I think a lot of that is circumstantial

 

The Russian Brute

 

Russian Brute wasn't any good, but he did have Ox Baker as a manager. I can guaranfuckingtee you HHH would never do anything as cool as having Ox Baker be his manager.

 

Tommy Jammer

 

Jammer is a perfectly serviceable lame babyface. He would have made a decent addition to the SMW roster in 93 and probably would have gotten over huge with coal miner's daughters. I don't think he's as good as Bobby Blaze, but he would have been a respectable Bobby Blaze understudy. HHH was a pretty shitty Michaels under study and I don't even like Michaels, but you still have to give this to HHH.

 

Mitch Snow

 

Snow was not around long enough to rate above HHH, but on merit I think he was probably on track to be better. Had sound mechanics, a unique finish, was good at making squash matches fun, worked well with guys on top the few times he had a chance.

[Dylan Waco]

I think Vince Russo was a big fan of HHH at the time as well. And, given that HHH hung around with Shawn all the time, when Shawn was gone, it was pretty much a given that HHH was going to be the new leader of DX.

 

Although I think what really put DX over the top in that run were X-Pac and the New Age Outlaws. Heck, 1998 was one of Sean Waltman's finest years.

Oh I think NAO was clearly the most over act in DX. I literally don't even think it's arguable and I don't even mean that as a back handed shot at HHH.

In my high school wrestling was crazy popular and NAO was probably the most mimed and talked about aspects of the show, with the possible exception of The Rock

[Dylan Waco]

Someone asked for comp with Eddie Edwards and Davey Richards. To me they are pretty close to the same beast so it is hard to see a reason to go through both but I'll try.

 

Edwards is more babyfaced looking and strikes me as a guy who visually would have been a good aesthetic addition to an 80's blowjob babyface tag team. Obviously you wouldn't want a guy who can't/won't sell in the Morton role, but as a homeless man's version of Robert Gibson he may have been serviceable. I have seen people argue that Edwards is less carryable than Davey is, which may be true, but that makes hiding him on the apron even more sensible. As it stands he's a pretty awful wrestler though I have some hope for him for reasons I can't fully explain. He seems like the kind of guy that might actually get good in developmental, whereas Richards seems like the kind of guy that would go to developmental, Low Ki it up and eat a few Bionic Elbow's right out the door.

 

Richards is obviously a terrible wrestler. He's the epitome of a guy who runs through spots like they are nothing, selling nothing, conveying nothing, et. The only thing that matters is the amount of "impact" and the number of near falls. He's shit. He's worse than HHH in pretty much every respect. HHH v. Taker was a match with a lot of flaws, but guys throwing bombs and laying around cause they are old, is a lot better than guys throwing bombs, standing up, throwing more bombs, et because they are wild and young. Also Richards is not a big enough piece of shit to make you believe he is going to beat a guy, with his finish, in a match that rightly or wrongly is seen as "his to win." You just don't believe in Richards near falls like you did with HHH and the tombstone for a variety of reasons. But this is an instance where HHH being a real life fuck face contributes to him being a clearly better wrestler

[Jingus]

Also Richards is not a big enough piece of shit to make you believe he is going to beat a guy, with his finish, in a match that rightly or wrongly is seen as "his to win." You just don't believe in Richards near falls like you did with HHH and the tombstone for a variety of reasons. But this is an instance where HHH being a real life fuck face contributes to him being a clearly better wrestler

That's actually a good point. Getting a win over Trips is such a rare thing that it really does mean something. Well, as long as it's not structured to subtly make the guy look weak, and as long as HHH doesn't just shrug and pretend like it doesn't matter and act his opponent's still an unworthy pretender during his 20-minute promo the next night on Raw.

[Log]

He seems like the kind of guy that might actually get good in developmental, whereas Richards seems like the kind of guy that would go to developmental, Low Ki it up and eat a few Bionic Elbow's right out the door.

I'd like to believe that that is actually how guys are fired from FCW.

[ohtani's jacket]

The British Kendo Nagasaki.