Ring of Honor Wrestling

[Migs]

19 minutes ago, rovert said:

No, they are genuinely leaving ROH and likely "go dark" until this mystery new promotion stars in mid-2019. Not saying won't take a booking here or there. But publicly and private there's no indication of them doing much in the Spring. Currently not on the MSG card or doing Wrestlecon.

Don't ask me about New Japan though.

We're also still a month off from Final Battle - I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't cemented the finishes yet. If this mystery promotion falls through... ROH is set up to do something big in December. If not, they all go out putting over the guys that remain. ROH either has the hot angle or they make the most out of tough situation.

[rovert]

20 hours ago, Migs said:

We're also still a month off from Final Battle - I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't cemented the finishes yet. If this mystery promotion falls through... ROH is set up to do something big in December. If not, they all go out putting over the guys that remain. ROH either has the hot angle or they make the most out of tough situation.

The finishes would be set by this stage going by past history. Delirious does book long-term and rigidly stick to plans.

You are assigning the possibility of a caring and vision to ROH and Delirious they've never have displayed. 

[Migs]

3 hours ago, rovert said:

The finishes would be set by this stage going by past history. Delirious does book long-term and rigidly stick to plans.

You are assigning the possibility of a caring and vision to ROH and Delirious they've never have displayed. 

Perhaps I'm too optimistic. If I'm disappointed... well, it's not like ROH has much going on for it if those guys leave. Maybe it's time to replace them in my wrestling viewing with something else.

[Memphis Mark]

6 hours ago, Migs said:

Perhaps I'm too optimistic. If I'm disappointed... well, it's not like ROH has much going on for it if those guys leave. Maybe it's time to replace them in my wrestling viewing with something else.

 Go back and watch ROH  footage from 2005 and  2006. Seems to help me .

[Memphis Mark]

PCO signs a deal with ROH  . Silas Young  resigns with ROH . Tracy Williams vs. ZSJ in Philly. Best Friends return . All interesting developments . Maybe SBGI finally  found  their  lost wallet.

[SirEdger]

I'm beyond psyched about seeing PCO with ROH (I think the heartbeat vignettes are about him) and now, I wanna see PCO vs Bully Ray real bad.

[Migs]

Brody King as well. Sure seems like they are intent on restocking the roster at the moment.

[Memphis Mark]

13 hours ago, Migs said:

Brody King as well. Sure seems like they are intent on restocking the roster at the moment.

 They are being force to restock the roster or their business will fall off the cliff with the upcoming talent departures. The retooling of the roster is something ROH or any wrestling promotion should do on a least a yearly basis . Wrestling fans like to see new talent and fresh matches . It just seems  it takes a crisis for the ROH office to make any move to sign new talent .

[SomethingSavage]

The product and the presentation is still so stagnant though.

Insertion of new talent is key. That much is true. And so this is certainly a step in the right direction.

But perhaps cycling out the booker should be of equal importance. It feels like that should be a critical priority at this point.

There's something to be said for creative oversight, supervision, and stability. But this isn't that. This is one guy steering the ship in the same (safe, but awfully uneventful) direction for far too long. It's time for some new approaches or ideas to surface already.

[Memphis Mark]

39 minutes ago, SomethingSavage said:

The product and the presentation is still so stagnant though.

Insertion of new talent is key. That much is true. And so this is certainly a step in the right direction.

But perhaps cycling out the booker should be of equal importance. It feels like that should be a critical priority at this point.

There's something to be said for creative oversight, supervision, and stability. But this isn't that. This is one guy steering the ship in the same (safe, but awfully uneventful) direction for far too long. It's time for some new approaches or ideas to surface already.

 You are right  about the product. When ROH was at it peak it combined two different styles , 80's Memphis and 90's AJPW .

Gabe booked the personal issues angles  that creates an emotional connection between the wrestlers and their audience . Examples would be the CM Punk vs. Christopher Daniels war of  2003  , Jimmy Rave 's betrayal of AJ Styles , Alex Shelly selling out to Prince Nana,  Corino vs.  Homicide , Punk disgust with Raven's lifestyle , Jimmy loves Lacey , the ROH vs. CZW war, the Summer of Punk  and countless other angles that  captivated the fans.

Yet , product balance was always maintained by quality in ring action.  Examples Joe vs. Punk , the Danielson  vs. Homicide series of 2005, Danielson vs. Nigel, Aries &  Strong  vs. the Briscoes , AJ vs. Matt Sydal , Claudio vs. Nigel , Colt vs. Nigel , Joe vs. Daniels and many others. Everything always seemed to come together and the audience was paid off in the end.

 Delirious books way too many comedy  acts and marginal prospects that will never draw money . I guess that comes from all the time he spent in Chikara .  There are no real angles , just a constant series of matches that seemed to be put  together at the last minute. The audience does not emotionally connected to Delirious' s  ROH , because it is void of any real emotion , just a endless series  of high spots and comedy  matches.

 A company with one hour of TV per week  and 4 yearly  PPV ' s  just needs one strong booker who gets the business. Who that person is remains a mystery , but it doe not appear to be Delirious . So we agree .

[El-P]

So, I guess no more PCO in MLW. Too bad... 

[Memphis Mark]

On 12/3/2018 at 7:31 AM, El-P said:

So, I guess no more PCO in MLW. Too bad... 

Not too bad for PCO. The man got a six figure deal to work for ROH. He is  50 years , the money will go a long way to funding his retirement . Happy for him.

[Migs]

Spoiler

PCO and Brody King formed a stable with Marty Scurll called "Villain Enterprises."

Seems like a pretty weak way to use PCO.

[Mad Dog]

I knew they would find a way to squander PCO. 

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Yuck.

[El-P]

So yeah,  too bad no more PCO in MLW...

[SomethingSavage]

ROH will always choose the blandest, most uninspired path possible. Instead of bringing someone in as a monster heel to storm the gates & challenge for the big belt - or cycle dudes in & out like an assembly line of challengers for a few hot months - let's just recreate the Hangmen Three or some horse shit.

Good times.

[rovert]

3 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

I knew they would find a way to squander PCO. 

Putting him with the promotion's most popular star isn't squandering him at all. Also being in a trio means it won't get overexposed.

[Mad Dog]

5 hours ago, rovert said:

Putting him with the promotion's most popular star isn't squandering him at all. Also being in a trio means it won't get overexposed.

It 100% is. PCO became relevant by being PCO. He could have made a real splash by showing up and challenging for the belt almost immediately. Now he's part of a stable that probably won't catch on because their TV is dull as hell. 

[Blehschmidt]

Now apparently Bandido has signed an exclusive contract with RoH. 

I certainly hope something happens with this company since they are snapping up a bunch of the indy talent with momentum. 

I'd hate to see the PCO comeback tour and the progress of Bandido, Cobb, and King derailed by the same coasting on life support , nothing happening, mediocre at best booking that has plagued RoH since before Gabe left.

[Memphis Mark]

On 12/17/2018 at 5:31 AM, Blehschmidt said:

Now apparently Bandido has signed an exclusive contract with RoH. 

I certainly hope something happens with this company since they are snapping up a bunch of the indy talent with momentum. 

I'd hate to see the PCO comeback tour and the progress of Bandido, Cobb, and King derailed by the same coasting on life support , nothing happening, mediocre at best booking that has plagued RoH since before Gabe left.

 

 IMOO , I though that the  run that ROH had in 2005 , 06 & 07 was some of the best wrestling ever. From Manhattan  Mayhem to Man Up , they really were hitting on all cylinders  . ROH was returning to form with the Kevin Steen / Steve Corino vs. El Generico / Colt Cabana in 10 . However Cornette seemed to have an intense dislike for the work of these men . Jim ever stopped booking Cabana . The Kings of Wrestling vs . Briscoes feud was going on at the same time . it was pure Gold .

After that we have indeed  been treated to lazy and mediocre booking for years . The last two years have been a platform for Cody and friends . They have been good matches here and  there . Hell , with the Briscoes , Bucks ,  SCU  and the NJPW attractions you were bound to have a few good matches.

 Who knows were it goes from here. The whole roster has turned over since SBGI bought the company . I think Jay Lethal , the Briscoes and Kenny King are the only pre-SBGI talents left on the roster. Hell of a turn over.

  The ROH Office needs to re- build the under card with wrestlers that have long term potential to draw money . Hopefully ROH management will realize there is an issue with the booking  and makes some changes .  If  I were them I would try to book the NJPW LA  Dojo and NJPW  Dojo talent for extended excursions  . Give guys like Clark Conners , Alex Coughlin and Karl  Fredericks  a  shot. Throw in the 2 or 3 NJPW  Dojo guts . You could rotate the talent between ROH and CMLL .

  Also they could use Cobb and King as a resources to identify underexposed talent in the West. There seems to be quite a few prospects  up and down the Pacific Coast  Jacob Fatu and Jungle Boy are a couple of guys I am hearing about , yet to see either yet . I sure them are other underexposed and deserving talents  waiting for their  break . The ROH office needs to get off their backside and find them. New talent is ROH 's lifeline. . Of course all of these actions  required long term thinking and planning . I hope for the best .

 

[SomethingSavage]

I'm grateful that Colt fell out of favor with ROH for awhile there, because the dude absolutely found other ways to remain relevant and one of the hottest acts in independent wrestling on his own for awhile there. He's hardly a big buzzworthy name or anything anymore, but Colt was very much that guy around 2010.

Besides all that - and speaking purely from a fan perspective - I'm a HUGE fan of the rivalry he put together with Adam Pearce around that time. Their feud felt like a total throwback - involving neckbraces, piledrivers on concrete, steel chains, and fireballs to the face. It was fucking glorious.

It was a real war over the NWA World Championship, and it was appointment viewing for me at a critical time when you couldn't pay me to care about anything happening on WWE television.

But yeah. I'd put that Cabana NWA work up against anything going on in ROH from that time period. The Steen stuff was okay at various, scattered points. But it was badly mismanaged from the time he lost to Generico all the way up until their Ladder War. Generico wasn't around enough to properly pay off their rivalry, and the SCUM stuff felt like a discount version of Age of the Fall, despite having a decent lineup of quality personalities lumped together in there.

And all the Davey/Eddie shit was boring beyond belief.

[sek69]

Shane Taylor announced he  signed an exclusive contract for 2019 as well. Time will tell if it works, but at least ROH is making the effort to restock.

[artDDP]

On 12/2/2018 at 4:22 PM, Memphis Mark said:

 Delirious books way too many comedy  acts and marginal prospects that will never draw money . I guess that comes from all the time he spent in Chikara .  There are no real angles , just a constant series of matches that seemed to be put  together at the last minute. The audience does not emotionally connected to Delirious' s  ROH , because it is void of any real emotion , just a endless series  of high spots and comedy  matches.

 A company with one hour of TV per week  and 4 yearly  PPV ' s  just needs one strong booker who gets the business. Who that person is remains a mystery , but it doe not appear to be Delirious . So we agree .

I had to quote this because this is exactly why I can't get into ROH. There's too much that seems thrown together and, as a result, amateurish. The real appeal was the potential for seeing some good to great matches but that style really only draws a niche audience who will excuse the emotional investment.

The weekly TV doesn't really seem to be worth watching and Wade and Dave really only comment on the PPVs.

There is a lot of ROH I enjoy but often the matches seem like guys trying to get all their stuff in at the expense of storytelling and the main events seem to always get cut short because no one can rein in the undercard talent.

[Migs]

On 12/26/2018 at 8:32 AM, artDDP said:

I had to quote this because this is exactly why I can't get into ROH. There's too much that seems thrown together and, as a result, amateurish. The real appeal was the potential for seeing some good to great matches but that style really only draws a niche audience who will excuse the emotional investment.

The weekly TV doesn't really seem to be worth watching and Wade and Dave really only comment on the PPVs.

There is a lot of ROH I enjoy but often the matches seem like guys trying to get all their stuff in at the expense of storytelling and the main events seem to always get cut short because no one can rein in the undercard talent.

The revelation from Dave that the main event of Final Battle was cut by over 20 minutes, because they couldn't pace out a four hour show was... distressing. Especially when they opened with a Kenny King match no one needed.