Short-term-contract guys

[JerryvonKramer]

During the territory era, there were some guys -- for example, Terry Funk, Dick Murdoch, Abdullah the Butcher, or Kamala -- who would bounce around on short 3- or 6-month contracts never staying anywhere for too long. Most often these were guys who'd go on the tours in Japan. A guy like Dick Murdoch worked in practically every territory: WWF, Crockett / WCW, Florida, Central States, St. Louis, Portland, Mid-South, All Japan, New Japan, AWA, World Class, Georgia, Stampede, Smokey Mountain, Puerto Rico, Portland, hell he worked for Catch Wrestling in Germany.

 

Here's what I wonder: why?

 

It's clear that not all wrestlers in the 1980s felt the need to do this. There are lots and lots of examples of guys who stayed with one company for years. If they moved around, they'd spend a year or two in each promotion not a cup a coffee here and there.

 

What is more profitable? Staying in one area drawing a steady paycheck or bouncing around on these short-term deals?

 

I ask this question because presumably the likes of Funk and Murdoch WERE offered long-term deals, but must have thought that this life of never-ending travel would make them more money.

 

Did it make them more money? If so, how? If not, why?

 

Would be interested to see any thoughts on this. If anyone has any figures, that would be interesting too. The ideal data would be be to compare what a guy like Dick Murdoch made in the 1980s to what a guy like ermm, I dunno, someone about the same age and level of stardom like Nikolai Volkoff or Col. De Beers who stayed mainly in one or two promotions for the whole time. I wonder who earned more for the decade. And what the margin of difference would be.

 

Lacking such data, we only have ball park numbers:

 

On the permanent contract side of things, at the top end, Bob Backlund was making something like $350,000 a year as WWF champ in the early 80s, Flair made something like $800,000 a year by the mid-80s, and Hogan was making between $2-4million. Ole Anderson as a booker / wrestler made around $200k. JJ Dillon and Jim Cornette have both said they made between $100-200k a year working for Crockett. Based on that, I'd imagine your midcarders would be in the region of 80-150k.

 

Abdullah the Butcher has claimed he was making around 10k an appearance in Japan at that time. There's a story that Bill Watts paid Buck Robley $7k for his last week with him. On shoots, I've heard guys like Kamala and Bad News Brown say they got paid as little as $500 for a main event match.

 

Let's say that 10k is the top end of per-appearance payment and $500 is the bottom end. How many dates would Dick Murdoch have to work to make his $100k? If he could get 10k per match, just 10. But I wonder how many matches at that rate he could get a year. If he was getting more like $500 he'd have to work in the region of 200 matches. Probably he got somewhere in between. Take a look at this: http://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=2050&page=20 In the summer of 1988, Murdoch worked 30 matches for New Japan. THIRTY. I very much doubt he got $10k for each of those appearances. He worked the earlier and later tours with New Japan that year too. So if he was making well in excess of $600k in Japan, would he really work a ton of dates for Crockett as well? Why? More money?

 

Did Dick Murdoch really make over a million dollars in 1988? Something tells me he didn't. Namely, the fact he was working in the Indies in the mid-90s. Would a millionaire bother to put themselves in the ring for scant reward at 49? Wouldn't he just retire? I think the 10k figure that Abdullah talks about was maybe the top top figure he ever got in Japan. There's no way guys were getting 10k a match.

 

So, unless I've grossly overestimated pay for permanent-contract workers, or under-estimated the going nightly rate for a guy like Murdoch, there was little extra money to be made bouncing from promotion to promotion -- plus the added hassle and expense of constant travel and relocation (not that guys working for the big promotions didn't have to travel, but still, at least they were doing that in the framework of working for a company, not just ... alone).

[Loss]

Contracts weren't really a part of wrestling until the late 1980s, when Crockett started signing guys to deals. Most guys - maybe everyone - worked territories on handshake deals prior to that. I don't know if he was the first, but Lex Luger was one of the first guys to get a big money contract in wrestling. The WWF didn't even offer a downside guarantee in their contracts until Hall and Nash jumped to WCW in 1996. The contract itself was nothing more than "an opportunity", as it is often worded by people who share these things, and was more to keep the WWF wrestlers locked up and exclusive than to give them any perks of note.

 

A guy like Jerry Lawler was an icon in his home territory and didn't need to travel very often to make a good living. Wrestlers like Andre the Giant and Dusty Rhodes were attractions and were in demand in multiple places. Other wrestlers may have had a falling out out with the promoter over something and left quickly, and it was no big deal, because there were so many other places they could work. But they weren't under short-term "deals".

 

If contracts were the norm in wrestling prior to Vince's expansion, Vince probably wouldn't have had any talent he could use to expand, or at the very least, he would have needed to offer them a lot of guaranteed money to jump.

[JerryvonKramer]

How late are we talking Loss? I've read about when Rick Martel and Tom Zenk "signed" for WWF in 1986, Zenk got upset because Martel had managed to get himself a better "deal" than him, despite the fact that they were tag partners. I can only imagine they were talking about a written contract for an annual salary. What else would they be talking about?

 

Also, I've been reading the 1987 WONs recently around the time of the JCP buying up Florida and UWF. There's a question mark over where DiBiase is going to go -- again, I can only imagine that once Vince acquired his services, there would have to be SOMEthing in place to prevent him just hightailing it to Crockett if something didn't go his way. Wasn't there?

 

In any case, even if there weren't written contracts but simply pay-per-appearance sort of deals ... "opportunities" as you put it ... that still begs the question for why a guy like Murdoch would move about so much as compared with so many other guys who stuck to 2-3 territories.

 

I mean if anything that makes the comparison easier to make. Was Murdoch on average getting paid more per match than the Nikolai Volkoffs and Greg Valentines, less or about the same? If it's about the same, then why the travel? If it's more, then why wasn't EVERYONE doing it? It's clear that they weren't.

[Loss]

I don't know the answer to that. Maybe Martel got a three-year deal and Zenk got a two-year deal. Maybe Zenk is bullshitting. Maybe there was a per appearance included in contracts back then, but the number of appearances wasn't guaranteed? I just know every single thing I've always read has always said that the WWF did not offer a downside guarantee until Hall and Nash signed with WCW.

[Ricky Jackson]

I've always thought that some guys liked working in Japan, like Murdoch, Terry Funk, etc., while others for various reasons didn't, even with the promise of high pay. Basically like how some people love traveling and experiencing other cultures while others dislike being away from their familiar surroundings.

[JerryvonKramer]

Ricky, do you think this is true of Murdoch though, a known member of the KKK? If the motivation was something other than money, fine, but with guys like him and Gordy that seems very odd. If the motivation is financial, then this is something I struggle to get my head around. It also doesn't explain why they'd travel around so much between territories on the US mainland.

[kjh]

Hogan said he got a guaranteed contract from Vince in 1984 to jump from the AWA, which given the amount he was making between the Midwest and Japan is plausible.

[Ricky Jackson]

OK, I admittedly don't know a lot about Murdoch (was he really a KKK member?) or the motivations of any of these guys for doing what they did, none of us do. Who knows why they jumped from territory to territory and country to country. People do things that don't seem to "make sense" to another person, but that doesn't mean what they do isn't logical to them. I think Murdoch was probably a guy who just liked his freedom and the ability to pick and choose his spots and wasn't tied down to any particular place.

[FLIK]

OK, I admittedly don't know a lot about Murdoch (was he really a KKK member?)

Dusty Rhodes tells a story in his book about Murdoch taking him to a KKK rally as a surprise. Dusty tried to pass it off as him playing a rib and just wanting to live the gimmick for apperances sake but I call BS on that. Plus there's too many other ppl who've made claims that he was racist for there not to be fire near the smoke.

 

Re the original topic, from pretty much all accounts i've heard from guys from that era. The ones who stayed put in 1 territory were the wrestlers who were the exceptions & not the rule. It was universally accepted that most wrestlers wouldn't stay in one place TOO long, that there was only so much you could do with a guy before he got stale and his drawing power diminished (especially true in the case of a guy like Abdullah or Andre who were thought to only work best most places as short term special attractions) or a guy would get in an argument with a promoter or something else would happen that he would want to move on. There were plenty of places to go work & make money & it wasn't so easy to get into the business back then so if you were talented it was guaranteed you'd find work elsewhear. Plenty of stories about how promoters/bookers would call up other territories to get guys work and encourage them to leave so that they could bring in new talent and keep the product fresh.

 

Dutch Mantell on his recent AOW podcast interview talked a lot about this subject just as a refrence off the top of my head.

[jdw]

Not really sure what the premise of the original question is. I would think that Jerry has read and seen enough of the territory days to know that people moved around a ton, often passing through areas for 1-2 storylines before heading out of town. This has always been seen in the WWF prior to their going national. Here are four major challengers to Bruno/Backlund and their stretches working MSG:

 

Superstar

12/15/75 - 05/17/76

05/16/77 - 11/20/78 (extended due to World Title)

10/04/82 - 04/25/83

 

Patera

01/17/77 - 06/26/78

01/21/80 - 12/29/80 (extended via IC Title)

 

Valentine

02/19/79 - 10/22/79

10/19/81 - 06/28/82

 

Koloff

12/09/69 - 03/09/70

09/14/70 - 02/08/71

10/13/75 - 05/17/76

08/28/78 - 03/26/79

04/25/83 - 12/26/83

 

Hansen

04/26/76 - 11/22/76

02/16/81 - 05/04/81

 

 

It was pretty common for guys to come in and not stick around for a lot longer than their program on top, then work down, then head out. Patera's long original run is a combo of (i) Ken not working every card, (ii) his feud with Bruno not full blown off while Bruno had the title which meant the blow off came after Bruno dropped the title to Graham, and (iii) Patera happening to be around when Bob got the belt to be one of his early challengers. Also the fact that Patera probably was reasonably over.

 

We think of Ivan being there all the time in the 70s, but he wasn't. Feud with Bruno ended fast. Then he was brought back to get the belt from Bruno, then gone when Pedro won it. Brought back deep into Bruno's second reign as a trusty old rival and Bruno never really getting revenge. Then brought in with Backlund as a heel who had held the belt. Overall, in and out.

 

It's worth noting that in MSG you had:

 

* monthly shows

* could work a 2-3 match program on top

* could transition into a feud with a secondary wrestler (Andrea, Gorilla, Strongbow) for 2-3 matches

 

And there's six months.

 

For territories like Memphis, you have *weekly* shows. You burn through a feud faster. In other territories you might have shows in the major arena(s) every 2-3 weeks, which again burns through things faster than MSG.

 

John

[Matt D]

Martel says that he stopped Zenk from signing this 3 year contract with Verne which would have tied him up considerably.

[jdw]

How late are we talking Loss? I've read about when Rick Martel and Tom Zenk "signed" for WWF in 1986, Zenk got upset because Martel had managed to get himself a better "deal" than him, despite the fact that they were tag partners. I can only imagine they were talking about a written contract for an annual salary. What else would they be talking about?

The WWF didn't do "annual salaries" with wrestlers, the exception being *perhaps* Hogan. I don't even think the term "down side guarantee" came into being in the WWF until the 90s.

 

Other promotions did annual salaries / guarantees / down side guarantees to keep people from heading to the WWF.

 

Zenk is a noted bullshitter, expert in putting over Zenk. I'm not saying that Martel's version should be trusted 100%: it was 20+ years ago, he's a wrestler, and Zenk is a footnote in his career (and Zenk's an asshole to boot). But Zenk's version of the truth is something that if he told you Water Is Wet, you'd really have to double check it.

 

John

[JerryvonKramer]

jdw - how did this work in practice if guys weren't on contracts? I'm thinking especially mid-late 80s here.

 

Take a guy like Koko B. Ware, was he making his living solely on a per appearance basis? How did they maintain exclusivity? From about 85 onwards once a guy was in WWF, he was a WWF guy solely and didn't work anywhere else. If they weren't on contracts, how did Vince maintain that? Would people like Greg Valentine be making enough appearances in, say 1989, to make a decent living? If he wanted to work a few dates for USWA would he be allowed? I don't think he would have been allowed, but what did Vince do to stop it from happening if there wasn't a contract to tie him to?

 

This goes the same for NWA in that time frame. NWA guys only worked for NWA. The exceptions are when you get Terry Funk coming in for a short stretch in 89, or Abdullah in 91 or Hansen in 93. But in the main there's a roster that was in place for quite a long time.

 

What I'm saying is that by 85+ guys were moving around A LOT LESS than in the late 70s. Guys worked for a single company for YEARS. Why? And also how if there were no contracts?

 

And my original question was -- during this period when guys were staying with one promotion -- why were guys like Dick Murdoch still moving every 3 months or so in 1988? And was there MORE or LESS money to be made doing that?

[Al]

In 1985 there were far less places to work than in say, 1978. And the financial incentive to work WWF was so much better than other promotions, for the most part.

 

As far as which was better, the main event/one place guys probably made the most money. But there are only a few of those spots available. So for a wrestler who doesn't have that steady spot but can make money in Japan, that's obviously a better course of action for them. Some guys like Abdullah couldn't work one place for an extended period of time without losing their aura. Terry Funk is a case of someone who probably wasn't comfortable wrestling full time at that stage.

[Hollinger.]

jdw - how did this work in practice if guys weren't on contracts? I'm thinking especially mid-late 80s here.

 

Take a guy like Koko B. Ware, was he making his living solely on a per appearance basis? How did they maintain exclusivity? From about 85 onwards once a guy was in WWF, he was a WWF guy solely and didn't work anywhere else. If they weren't on contracts, how did Vince maintain that? Would people like Greg Valentine be making enough appearances in, say 1989, to make a decent living? If he wanted to work a few dates for USWA would he be allowed? I don't think he would have been allowed, but what did Vince do to stop it from happening if there wasn't a contract to tie him to?

 

This goes the same for NWA in that time frame. NWA guys only worked for NWA. The exceptions are when you get Terry Funk coming in for a short stretch in 89, or Abdullah in 91 or Hansen in 93. But in the main there's a roster that was in place for quite a long time.

 

What I'm saying is that by 85+ guys were moving around A LOT LESS than in the late 70s. Guys worked for a single company for YEARS. Why? And also how if there were no contracts?

 

And my original question was -- during this period when guys were staying with one promotion -- why were guys like Dick Murdoch still moving every 3 months or so in 1988? And was there MORE or LESS money to be made doing that?

Guys were signed to contracts with language stipulating they'd be paid per appearance, with the amount depending on the house, placement on card, etc. So they were still bound by a contract saying they'd only work for WWF, but weren't guaranteed an amount of money. They were willing to take that deal because it was more exposure and the possibility of more money.

[jdw]

jdw - how did this work in practice if guys weren't on contracts? I'm thinking especially mid-late 80s here.

As Hollinger says, the WWF in the Expansion Era signed guys to contracts. He wasn't for a annual salary, or even a real guarantee, or a down side guarantee. They were paid for appearances and placement on the cards.

 

Was there a fixed formula? Not one that's easy to determine. You've got guys like Kamala not bitching about how much they made opposite Hogan while main eventing sellouts, but his comments stretch reality since no one else who worked against Hogan drawing what Hogan-Kamala drew (which was a shitload of money) has claims of making that little money. Guys were paid "something", and appeared to be generally okay with what it was: you didn't see a lot of them jumping to Crockett until after Vince was through with them.

 

 

Take a guy like Koko B. Ware, was he making his living solely on a per appearance basis?

Jerry: take a step back and think what you're asking and how goofy it is.

 

Do we have Koko's contract?

Do we have Koko's tax returns?

Do we have Koko's check stubs?

Do we have the WWF's payable ledgers to show what was being cut to specific people?

Do we know what Koko was getting under the table?

 

Okay... so you're going to say that's Koko, so maybe we don't have his.

 

Do we have it for Any Wrestler In the 80s?

 

No. Nor will we ever.

 

We have some hints, a few documents (like the stuff in Corny's MX book), some comments in books and shoot interviews... probably 80% of which is total fucking bullshit.

 

So don't be silly and think that anyone, including you, can figure out what Koko was making his living off of. For all we know he was the coke supplier among the boys and was netting an extra $100K a year off of that. Seriously... we don't know.

 

 

How did they maintain exclusivity?

Contract that you had to give notice in a narrow window to get out of, during which the WWF would bury your ass (or have you piss in a jar to completely fuck up the rest of your career like Tully).

 

 

From about 85 onwards once a guy was in WWF, he was a WWF guy solely and didn't work anywhere else.

*scratches head*

 

Let's take some Clash's:

 

 

Clash of the Champions XVII

November 19, 1991

 

* Tom Zenk pinned The Diamond Stud (1:24).

 

Zenk worked in the WWF after 1985.

 

* Dustin Rhodes & Ricky Steamboat beat Arn Anderson & Larry Zbysko (14:48) to win the WCW Tag Title

 

Three people from that match worked in the WWF after 1985.

 

* Rick Rude pinned Sting (4:50) to win the WCW U.S. Title.

 

Rude worked in the WWF after 1985.

 

Wait... three people won shares of WCW titles on that card, and all three were formers WWF'ers.

 

 

Clash of the Champions VI

April 2, 1989 in New Orleans, LA

 

* Junkyard Dog pinned Butch Reed (9:56).

 

Both were WWF after 1985.

 

* Bob Orton pinned Dick Murdoch (0:33).

 

Murdoch was WWF slightly into 1985, but we'll discount him. Orton of course was WWF after 1985.

 

* Mike Rotunda & Steve Williams beat The Road Warriors (11:40) to win the NWA Tag Title

 

Rotunda was WWF after 1985.

 

* Ranger Ross beat Iron Sheik (1:56) via DQ.

 

Sheik was WWF after 1985.

 

* NWA U.S. Tag Champs Eddie Gilbert & Rick Steiner beat Danny Spivey & Kevin Sullivan (3:51)

 

Spivey was WWF after 1985.

 

* NWA World Champ Ricky Steamboat beat Ric Flair (55:32) in three falls.

 

Steamer was WWF after 1985.

 

I lost track... how many was that? 7?

 

We could do that on a lot of Clash's. Funk? Terry Taylor? Greg Valentine? Dick Slater? Lots. I suspect just looking at the Clashs from 1988-92 we'll find around 20 guys who had worked in the WWF from 1985-90.

 

 

If they weren't on contracts, how did Vince maintain that?

You took my comment that there weren't annual salaries and guarantees then ran with it to think there weren't contracts. There were contracts.

 

Would people like Greg Valentine be making enough appearances in, say 1989, to make a decent living? If he wanted to work a few dates for USWA would he be allowed? I don't think he would have been allowed, but what did Vince do to stop it from happening if there wasn't a contract to tie him to?

Valentine worked for the WWF until he got a deal with WCW that was better.

 

 

This goes the same for NWA in that time frame. NWA guys only worked for NWA. The exceptions are when you get Terry Funk coming in for a short stretch in 89, or Abdullah in 91 or Hansen in 93. But in the main there's a roster that was in place for quite a long time.

Hansen came in during 1990.

 

I listed a number of guys above who moved in and out. Butch Reed was with the WWF for a decent length of time, then with WCW for a decent length of time. Steamboat? Rude? Arn?

 

 

What I'm saying is that by 85+ guys were moving around A LOT LESS than in the late 70s. Guys worked for a single company for YEARS. Why?

My thought would be the obvious two:

 

* How many companies were there in the 70s that offered a decent living, and how many were there from 1985-90?

 

* Vince paid well, and to retain talent his competitors (which essentially was only Crockett after 1986) had to lock their top talent down to contracts

 

 

And my original question was -- during this period when guys were staying with one promotion -- why were guys like Dick Murdoch still moving every 3 months or so in 1988?

Murdoch really wasn't moving every 3 months in 1988. He certainly wasn't bouncing between the WWF, JCP, AWA, World Class, Memphis and back during 1988. In fact...

 

http://www.thehistoryofwwe.com/jcp88.htm

 

January 1, 1988: Dusty Rhodes defeated Nikita Koloff, Dick Murdoch, Black Bart, and Bobby Eaton in a Bunkhouse Stampede match

February 12, 1988: Dusty Rhodes, Nikita Koloff, Barry Windham, & Misty Blue defeated Dick Murdoch, Jim Cornette, Bobby Eaton & Stan Lane

April 8, 1988: Dick Murdoch pinned Shane Douglas

May 6, 1988: Sting pinned Dick Murdoch

July 7, 1988: Jimmy Garvin defeated Dick Murdoch

August 1, 1988: Dick Murdoch defeated the Russian Assassin

September 1, 1988: Dick Murdoch defeated Larry Zbyzsko

October 2, 1988: Bobby Eaton & Stan Lane fought Dick Murdoch & Dusty Rhodes to a draw

December 30, 1988: Dick Murdoch defeated Russian Assassin #1

 

Gap in March, June and November. Two were long NJPW tours that he was on:

 

05/20/88 - 06/26/88: '88 IWGP Champion Series (New Japan)

11/11/88 - 12/08/88 '88 Japan Cup Series (New Japan)

 

I can't find the details for the Feb/Mar tour online, but do see that matches he was in listed on TV or in Hisa's list of matches for Sakaguchi on the dates of 2/29, 3/11 and 3/19.

 

So Dick was in JCP in 1988 with the exception of (i) NJPW tours and (ii) one assumes Dusty giving him some time off here and there.

 

John

[JerryvonKramer]

jdw, I was saying that if someone was working for WWF, they were WWF's exclusively and didn't work anywhere else until they left. And that their stints would be quite long (i.e. over a year or more).

 

So are you saying that there was a wholesale change during this time? That people didn't move about a lot? That's kinda what I've been saying.

 

What I was wondering about were the guys who moved about a lot. You seem to be suggesting that after a certain time few people were, not even Dick Murdoch: http://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=2050&page=20

Jerry: take a step back and think what you're asking and how goofy it is.

 

Do we have Koko's contract?

Do we have Koko's tax returns?

Do we have Koko's check stubs?

Do we have the WWF's payable ledgers to show what was being cut to specific people?

Do we know what Koko was getting under the table?

 

Okay... so you're going to say that's Koko, so maybe we don't have his.

 

Do we have it for Any Wrestler In the 80s?

 

No. Nor will we ever.

 

We have some hints, a few documents (like the stuff in Corny's MX book), some comments in books and shoot interviews... probably 80% of which is total fucking bullshit.

 

So don't be silly and think that anyone, including you, can figure out what Koko was making his living off of. For all we know he was the coke supplier among the boys and was netting an extra $100K a year off of that. Seriously... we don't know.

I don't think this part of your post was entirely warranted or, indeed, justified.

 

Just because we don't know, just because we don't at this time have such details, does not mean we can't wonder about these things.

 

For example, Koko Ware had 151 matches in 1987. Based on the information I've seen to date from here and there, he could have have earned anywhere from between $20k and $300k.

 

That's a very wide margin for error -- I think we can AT LEAST get a ball park figure for what he made based on matches (guessing merchandising is another source of income).

 

Aren't you even a little bit curious to know whether it was closer to 20 or 300?

 

This is an internet forum, not an academic journal, we aren't held to any particular standard. I'm not trying to solve a murder case here, there's no burden of proof. I don't appreciate this attempt at shutting down this particular line of inquiry. I'm not buying that it's "goofy" just to wonder about these things.

[jdw]

jdw, I was saying that if someone was working for WWF, they were WWF's exclusively and didn't work anywhere else until they left. And that their stints would be quite long (i.e. over a year or more).

They could be short (i.e. the Rockers first trip to the WWF / the Birds pass through), or they could be long. The worked for the WWF as long as Vince wanted them, and on rarer occasions when they thought they had a better offer elsewhere (Arn & Tully).

 

 

So are you saying that there was a wholesale change during this time? That people didn't move about a lot? That's kinda what I've been saying.

Of course, and we all know the reason: the WWF's Expansion caused a change as they hired just about everyone they wanted.

 

What I was wondering about were the guys who moved about a lot. You seem to be suggesting that after a certain time few people were, not even Dick Murdoch: http://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=2050&page=20

By 1988, the guys who "moved around a lot" were people on the fringe of wrestling in the US. There just weren't opportunities.

 

The AWA, Memphis, World Class... these were the fringe, along with indies. They were largely than indies, but couldn't have held onto anyone that the WWF or JCP really wanted.

 

 

For example, Koko Ware had 151 matches in 1987. Based on the information I've seen to date from here and there, he could have have earned anywhere from between $20k and $300k.

 

That's a very wide margin for error -- I think we can AT LEAST get a ball park figure for what he made based on matches (guessing merchandising is another source of income).

 

Aren't you even a little bit curious to know whether it was closer to 20 or 300?

Not interested enough to bust out a spreadsheet to try to figure it out. For example, do we have any idea how much:

 

* workers got for their ice cream bars

* merch

* appearances on video

* Mania & Survivors PPV bonus

* for working opening matches

* for working in the middle of the card

* how it varied per town

* what those gates really were

* how many shows are missing from Graham's archive

* what other perks like video game money are out there

* other under the table money that's out there

 

It's a rabbit hole, unless one of them wants to come forward and document it. Even then, we are unlikely to get a clear picture of enough different wrestlers to build a model of what a midcarder will make relative to a upper card guy relative to Working With Hogan relative to a prelim guy.

 

 

This is an internet forum, not an academic journal, we aren't held to any particular standard. I'm not trying to solve a murder case here, there's no burden of proof. I don't appreciate this attempt at shutting down this particular line of inquiry. I'm not buying that it's "goofy" just to wonder about these things.

You asked why people didn't move as much after a certain point in the 80s. It was answered: the WWF's expansion, and in turn contracts in JCP.

 

You asked why people moved in the 70s more. It was answered: people moved around from place to place because programs ran their course in territories, and if you're a Top Guy you moved onto another territory for another program.

 

You asked why people stayed in the WWF for a long time. It was answered: Vince paid good, and he had contracts that weren't easy to get out of.

 

You asked about annual salaries. It was answered: Vince didn't do that until the 90s except in rare cases, while JCP/WCW did.

 

Now you're shifting it into whether Koko made $20K or $300K, which isn't remotely included in your question about Short-Term-Contract Guys.

 

John

[JerryvonKramer]

I reckon that guys were earning less in the late 80s and early 90s than they were in the early 80s. The evidence?

 

Look at all the side jobs they had to do.

 

Mike Rotunda was hit the most hard. He had a number of careers that supplemented his wrestling job -- captain in the navy, and taxman for the IRS, a broker on Wall Street.

 

Do you have any idea how many night classes he had to take to get those jobs?

 

[jdw]

 

John

[cm funk]

I'd be curious to know what exactly was in the language of WWF contracts during expansion and the late 80's

 

I assume some talent would be guaranteed a minimum # of dates at least. I wonder if anybody had house %'s or card placement written in.

 

Using Martel/Zenk as an example, I don't doubt that Martel got himself a better deal just based on how much more valuable he was to the WWF than Zenk, so I wonder if it was just implied or something written?

 

One of those things that we can only speculate on

 

As far as guys moving around in the 80's, I think there's several reasons for it. Firstly, these were all guys who started in the 70's when moving from place to place was the predominant philosophy. Guys like Funk and Murdoch were just doing what they'd always done. Secondly, freedom was a big part of it. Funk could basically be his own boss, call his own shots, and go wherever he chose. He could do his big money tours of Japan, pick and choose where to work in the states, and spend the rest of time on his ranch. There's a lot to be said for having that kind of freedom, and it's also a way for a wrestler to "protect his brand". Third, some guys just love the road.

 

As far as guys who mostly stuck in one place exclusively, there were guys like that in every territory and they tended to be prelim or midcard wrestlers. Generally guys who were local, had a family, had real world jobs etc. etc. or somebody who also did off-screen work for the promotion.